The Quick Fix (1 year Rebuild)

[Zetterberg4Captain]

But again, if they're still going to lose a guy for nothing, their thought process has to be "do we see more value in going into next season with 4 of our D, or are you offering us a trade we like, irrelevant of the fact that we're still going to lose a guy for nothing (since that's happening anyway)?"

I'm not sure we offer much value, in that regard, with the pieces most fans wouldn't mind moving.

if minny and anaheim go 7-3-1, does each team have 7 forwards they would want to keep already?

i would rather loose a meh forward then a good dman and that would be why if I were them i would make a deal and accept a good young forward in return

 

[vladdy16]

How is Justin Williams landing 5 or 6 million per season? I don't even think he makes that now, and he is like 36, I think.

-Hartley is also a terrible coach.
-Why are we giving up a better player in AA, to get rid of only 2 more years of Howard, and all we get is a worse player, who is a 3rd liner at best.
-Hudler won't be signing for under a million, bad season or not. Also, we already have two Hudler's in Tatar and Nyquist, we don't need three. I know you traded Nyquist, but I don't believe he would fetch a Dumba or Brodin level d-man.
-I think Jensen might be the better d-man between him and Xavier Ouellet, though not sure.

I just saw the thread and it sounded like fun, so I wasn't overly concerned with details, just a 20 minute rough draft. Williams makes 3.25 now, but he's one of the top UFA's, so for a short term I think he'll get a decent raise.

AA has way more potential than Ferland, but Ferland's overall impact has been greater thus far. The idea of the thread was a 'what if' you HAD to make the playoffs next year, what kind of moves could be made?

Besides the defense(and scoring lol), the biggest hole the Red Wings have is size at center. I think size is overrated, but you do have to take it into account.

So I wanted to buffer Nielson in that respect, and to me Ferland is the perfect player to create space for a player like Nielson. Nielson loves to cut and slash toward the net, but lacks the strength to create the avenue himself. Svechnikov is similar to Nielson as a slasher, and Ferland legitimately creates space/lanes in the offensive zone.

Similarly Larkin needs the proper insulation to develop as a center, so I thought the experienced, feisty, jack of all trades pair of Williams and Abdelkader on a neutral line would be perfect for that.

It was fun to think, would a high octane prospect like AA and a legitimate solution to their goaltending situation be too much for CGY to pass up despite how much they prize Ferland? Would the Red Wings gain enough in the tactical battle with Ferland and Williams, to offset the free scoring from AA? I can see pulling the trigger from DET's perspective if they sincerely felt like AA will never quite round out his game. I'm very curious to see where guys like AA and Ho-Sang end up a few years from now. For the record I don't think Ferland would be comfortable outside of CGY or would be moved by CGY,

I hope you're right about Hudler, not many guys are only making a couple mil 2 years after finishing 7th in league scoring, but I think he's in for a fringe year next year to see if his legs hold up. I don't think Hudler is similar to 21 or 14. Nyquist is a speedy counter puncher, Tatar a skilled opportunist, Hudler a slow playmaker.

It's hard to imagine how we're going to find help for D, but exploiting the expansion draft situation is our only hope I'd think, so I know MIN has a situation on it's hands there, and Nyquist has the jump to fit into their lineup.

Hartley's year with CGY was one of the best coaching performances I can imagine. When your roster doesn't have the skill to compete, you have to gain situational advantages and I think that's Hartley's strong suit. So the thinking was to not necessarily find a way to make the Red Wings roster better, but more situationally versatile for a coach that likes to look to play the splits(baseball term).

Oullette fits into my thinking better than Jensen in this scenario, because of the intentional underdog/stay at home posture of the hypothetical roster. The Blues teams that came so close to knocking the 90's eras Wings out of the playoffs wouldn't have come so close if they tried to mimic the Red Wings and were a poor man's version of the Red Wings.

They were planning how to win games while getting out possessed 2 to 1. So if the top of the NHL today is about mobile D and speed and skill, if you want to compete as an underdog, load up in the opposite direction. Oullete, Hudler, Zetterberg and Vanek have zero speed, Ferland, Helm and Abdelkader little skill, how can you go wrong?

Anyways, I thought it was an interesting thread idea, because the reality that Chelios has relayed in interviews, about the Red Wings most likely not competing and picking in the top 10 for most of the next 5 years isn't interesting to me, so I'd rather hear about some crazy ideas to radically alter course.

 

[Winger98]

I think the idea was that, if they deal one, they'll only have the 3 protected D left for next year, and I don't think they have anyone really ready to step in (maybe I'm wrong, there, I don't know their prospect pool very well). If they don't, then even if they lose Brodin or Dumba (or Spurgeon or Scandella, I guess), they'll still have a full (and solid) top 4 to go with. I guess I could see them moving one for an expansion-ineligible D replacement, but I can't imagine the value there would be good enough to justify it.

That said, crazier things have happened, and if we gave them overwhelming value, they might take it anyways, but it seems like their fans, at least, are pretty resigned to just losing a guy, but still keeping the rest of the D corps.

I just don't see Scandella as a big loss, or a guy LV will even necessarily want considering who else could be available to draft. But Brodin/Dumba would essentially be a lock to be grabbed.

Also, Minny fell short in the playoffs and have a surprisingly older group of guys they are looking to win around. So, some changes should be in the works either to bolster parts that need bolstering (such as by adding a guy like Tatar/Nyquist) or just going younger and declaring this group null and void. I don't think it's time to ditch this group entirely, so it means they are making some trades/signing some UFA.

I don't think it would take overwhelming value to make a deal, just the right pieces to fit where Minny thinks they need to go to be better next year.

 

[Winger98]

if minny and anaheim go 7-3-1, does each team have 7 forwards they would want to keep already?

i would rather loose a meh forward then a good dman and that would be why if I were them i would make a deal and accept a good young forward in return

It depends how Minny feels about Staal going forward. Personally, I'd leave him unprotected and if he's grabbed, throw that money at Hanzal instead. Going forward, I think they're more likely to get value there.

 

[vladdy16]

It depends how Minny feels about Staal going forward. Personally, I'd leave him unprotected and if he's grabbed, throw that money at Hanzal instead. Going forward, I think they're more likely to get value there.

This is purely anecdotal, because I don't know Hanzals career that well, but he was getting blown by towards the end of the STL series. Was really pulling for MIN and Hanzal was frustrating to watch. Served up the back breaker after Stall went out with an injury.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

It depends how Minny feels about Staal going forward. Personally, I'd leave him unprotected and if he's grabbed, throw that money at Hanzal instead. Going forward, I think they're more likely to get value there.

so you think Minny may go the other route and protect 8 skaters and 1 goalie?

do the wild really have 7 forwards worth protecting, seems to me they have more good dmen but quite likely I am wrong

 

[Winger98]

so you think Minny may go the other route and protect 8 skaters and 1 goalie?

do the wild really have 7 forwards worth protecting, seems to me they have more good dmen but quite likely I am wrong

To go 8-1 while protecting Suter, Spurgeon, Dumba, and Brodin, they are forced to protect Pominville, Koivu, and Parise because of NMCs. At that point they can protect one of Granlund, Staal, Neidereiter, or Coyle.

I could see them go this route. Preserve the D, leave a forward out there who is likely easier to replace either through trade or free agency. Granlund had the better season, but he and Neidereiter are up for new deals this summer while Coyle is locked in for a few more years. If Minny could convince Pominville to waive the NMC for the draft (and I can't imagine LV taking him for any reason, so why wouldn't he?) they could then protect one of Neidereiter/Granlund, too. It's not a bad idea.

 

[njx9]

I just don't see Scandella as a big loss, or a guy LV will even necessarily want considering who else could be available to draft. But Brodin/Dumba would essentially be a lock to be grabbed.

That's totally possible, I don't know the feeling on him. That said, if it's Scandella as your 4D or the next guy as your 4D, what does that drop off look like? FA isn't necessarily a lock for replacement.

Also, Minny fell short in the playoffs and have a surprisingly older group of guys they are looking to win around. So, some changes should be in the works either to bolster parts that need bolstering (such as by adding a guy like Tatar/Nyquist) or just going younger and declaring this group null and void. I don't think it's time to ditch this group entirely, so it means they are making some trades/signing some UFA.

I don't think it would take overwhelming value to make a deal, just the right pieces to fit where Minny thinks they need to go to be better next year.

Assuming they did decide to move one, I think the problem will continue to be that defensemen, even mediocre defensemen, have a ton of value league-wide. I don't think Tatar or Nyquist is a particularly compelling offer at this point, and I have to imagine that other teams either agree, or KH agrees, given that I don't even think there've been hints of either moving or being available.

if minny and anaheim go 7-3-1, does each team have 7 forwards they would want to keep already?

i would rather loose a meh forward then a good dman and that would be why if I were them i would make a deal and accept a good young forward in return

Great question, I honestly have no idea. I'm purely going off what I've read about the team. I have a hard time believing they have enough valuable forwards to protect over 2 pairs of solid defensemen (given the aforementioned positional value), but I never really watched them play this year.

 

[Winger98]

That's totally possible, I don't know the feeling on him. That said, if it's Scandella as your 4D or the next guy as your 4D, what does that drop off look like? FA isn't necessarily a lock for replacement.

Assuming they did decide to move one, I think the problem will continue to be that defensemen, even mediocre defensemen, have a ton of value league-wide. I don't think Tatar or Nyquist is a particularly compelling offer at this point, and I have to imagine that other teams either agree, or KH agrees, given that I don't even think there've been hints of either moving or being available.

It's not ideal, and you don't want to lean on free agency too heavily, but I don't think you can just lose a guy like Brodin/Dumba for nothing. Even a 3rd would be preferable. Maybe you can work something out with LV where you leave some other guy available and they take him instead? I don't know. I just know that gifting one to LV is something that I wouldn't do.

And the price is entirely dependent on the circumstances. Before the expansion draft, whoever they trade with will have to either have space or be able to make space to protect who they're trading for. I think that really messes with the price and likely drives it down. If Minny has no reason to trade one of those guys, I agree, Tatar or Nyquist probably doesn't move the needle much for them.

Personally, I think Minny has just one more real kick at the can before they should consider trying hard to move some of their older guys. Koivu, Pominville, Staal, and Parise are all in their early-to-mid 30s right now.

 

[Frk It]

It's not ideal, and you don't want to lean on free agency too heavily, but I don't think you can just lose a guy like Brodin/Dumba for nothing. Even a 3rd would be preferable. Maybe you can work something out with LV where you leave some other guy available and they take him instead? I don't know. I just know that gifting one to LV is something that I wouldn't do.

And the price is entirely dependent on the circumstances. Before the expansion draft, whoever they trade with will have to either have space or be able to make space to protect who they're trading for. I think that really messes with the price and likely drives it down. If Minny has no reason to trade one of those guys, I agree, Tatar or Nyquist probably doesn't move the needle much for them.

Personally, I think Minny has just one more real kick at the can before they should consider trying hard to move some of their older guys. Koivu, Pominville, Staal, and Parise are all in their early-to-mid 30s right now.

I'd pay a decent amount for Dumba. Great fit for this team.

 

[Dead Thing Fan]

Firstly, let me start off saying I'm pretty solidly in the tank group for next season. I'd also say probably at least 75% of the fan base thinks we need to embrace some sort of rebuild either by tanking or at least running with the kids we got and letting contracts run out. With that said, how do you hypothetically turn this team around quickly, if say ownership says that you have to make the playoffs next season?

Error on the side of overpaying in trades/ signing UFAs.(Basically no Nyquist for Trouba straight up trades). Also try to make these deals reasonable for the future to. Ie keeping in mind that guys like Mantha, Larkin, etc are due raises soon.

**I don't want you to think like Holland either, because I don't believe he is willing to make the moves necessary to get this team back in contention or even into the playoffs quickly.**

EXPANSION DRAFT

I protect the following:
Z, Nyquist, Tatar, AA, Mantha, Sheahan, Nielson
Green, DD, XO
Mrazek

Leaving: Abby, Helm, Jensen, Howard, Ericsson, Kronwall, Glenny, Sproul

I trade Vegas a 3rd round pick (Chi) & a 6th (Fl) to take one of Abby or Helm. I'd even consider throwing them a contingent pick to get the deal done. I think Vegas agrees to this because there are not going to be a ton of good forwards available in the draft. There will be good goalies and dman available. Plus Abby & or Helm bring a winning culture with them. I'd lean on them choosing Helm. Wings gain 3.85 mil in cap space.

DRAFT

I offer up Howard to Calgary or Buffalo for 3 million a year for the next two years, thus retaining 2.3 mil a year. Howard + 3rd (NYR) for Calgary's next (2) 4ths or Buffalo's 3rd. Wings gain 3 million in cap space. I don't see why either of these teams turns up their nose at a starter coming off a solid year for 3 mil a season for 2 seasons. *For my sake, I'll say Cal takes the deal.

I offer up AA + the Wings 1st rounder + XO for one of the following Cam Fowler, Jacob Trouba, Noah Hanafin. I don't really see Trouba happening because I just don't see WPG trading him. I think AA really intrigues teams with his mix of size and speed, and I think he has pretty solid value thanks to his PPG. If the Wings end up with a
top 3 lottery pick I try to insert Tats or Nyquist into the deal instead, but I think realistically we end up picking 6th or below. Gain max 2.5 mil (assuming AA gets at least 1.5 this summer). **I will say we get Fowler, as I think Anh will be more willing to trade if say the Oil knock them out.

I offer up Luke Glendenning to Toronto for a 4th (2018) round pick. Bab loves him, and he simply makes too much money at 1.8 for what he does for this team. Gain 1.8 mil in cap.

* I don't think E's deal is dealable, otherwise I'd dump him, same goes for Abby.

Leaves the Wings with their 2nd, Tor & Fla 3rds, Cal & Det 4th, Det 5th-7th. I go for almost all Centers & D this draft.

FREE AGENCY
Resign Tats to a 4.75 x3 deal. (He gets a shorter Nyquist deal)
Sign Vanek to a 3mil x 2 deal. (If he had played better in Florida, I'd think he gets more but after no one wanted him at the deadline, I think he happily resigns)
Sign Alzner to a 5.75mil x 5 deal. (I don't by any means love this deal but he is the best defensive dman on the market)

Final Roster

Mantha-Z-Nyquist
Vanek-Nielson-Tats
Abby-Larkin-Svech
Bert-Sheahan-Nosek

Alzner-Fowler
DD-Green
Ericsson-Jensen
Sproul

Mrazek
Coreau

LTIR: Franzen & Kronwall

Assuming that Mrazek rebounds and plays like a starter, I think that is a playoff team. I probably wouldn't call them a contender but I think a much improved defense really helps this team's offense and allows our speed to shine some. I mean they still don't have a number 1 D, but that top 4 isn't bad. You have puck movers in Fowler & Green and good shutdown guys in DD & Alzner. DD and Green also get pushed back a pair, which should help them immensely.

On the offensive side, you bring up Svech, Nosek, and Bert. Ideally I think Svech could use 1 more year in the AHL, but but I think he could manage some 3rd line duty. Bert & Nosek add a little physicality and scoring potential to that 4th line with Sheahan. Larkin gets to spend a full year playing center with Abby who I think he has good chemistry with. Vanek comes back after a rough finish in Florida. I think he enjoys it here, and he had good chemistry with a variety of Wings.

FUTURE:

You'd probably lose Green the next season but his cap space goes to raises for Larkin, Mantha & Fowler. You hope Jensen can fill in for a season in the top 4. Assuming Mrazek plays well you lose Sheahan and replace with a 850k or less player and give Mrazek a raise. Then in 2019/20 you lose Kronner, Howards holdover, Nyquist & Vanek are UFAs, and you can really start to push this team into the future with almost 15 mil in cap space.

*******

Now again with all this said I still think this is too risky to do. You are banking on Z staying healthy and producing, guys like Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, Sheahan, and DD rebounding. Mrazek doing a total 180 playing wise. Mantha building on a strong rookie season and the new guys producing. This team still lacks any real horse to lash its hopes to. They still lack a true top line and a number 1 dman, and those teams rarely go far. This is a team that probably squeeks in as a 7th or 8th seed and maybe wins a round, but if ownership wants the playoffs I think it is possible.

1)Ericsson's contract is the biggest albatross that we have on the roster. Helm and Abby have way more value that J.E. Use the 2017 thirds from Toronto and Florida as the incentive for Vegas to take Ericsson. Please remember that Ericsson has a NTC, so he can put the kibosh on any trade, but he cannot say no to being the expansion draft pick by Vegas.

2)Fowler will either be resigned to a long term deal by the Ducks or he becomes a UFA after 2017/18. Why use one of our young assets when we can get him(hopefully) for free next summer. I'm sure that the Jets try very hard to re-sign Trouba, especially with the concerns about Meyers' long term health. Either way, the Jets are in control as Trouba is only a RFA next summer.

2) Signing Vanek(at any price) only takes up a roster spot from one of our youngsters. The only UFAs I want to resign are all in house(McIlrath, Street, Callahan and Pasquale).

 

[Winger98]

1)Ericsson's contract is the biggest albatross that we have on the roster. Helm and Abby have way more value that J.E. Use the 2017 thirds from Toronto and Florida as the incentive for Vegas to take Ericsson. Please remember that Ericsson has a NTC, so he can put the kibosh on any trade, but he cannot say no to being the expansion draft pick by Vegas.

2)Fowler will either be resigned to a long term deal by the Ducks or he becomes a UFA after 2017/18. Why use one of our young assets when we can get him(hopefully) for free next summer. I'm sure that the Jets try very hard to re-sign Trouba, especially with the concerns about Meyers' long term health. Either way, the Jets are in control as Trouba is only a RFA next summer.

2) Signing Vanek(at any price) only takes up a roster spot from one of our youngsters. The only UFAs I want to resign are all in house(McIlrath, Street, Callahan and Pasquale).

Ericsson only has three years left. If we need a roster spot that bad, just buy him out and eat the $1.6m in cap space next season and the $1.3m in space it would cost us for the five seasons after that. If we're not, just let the deal run its course and maybe we can deal him later for something that might have some additional value and not just us dumping assets.

Also, I think we trade for Fowler precisely because it's so unlikely he actually hits the open market. If we don't trade for him, and Anaheim is looking to move him, someone else will and will likely throw a bucket of cash at him. Same with Trouba, really, and pretty much any other D who will be on the cusp of getting a new D when/if they are traded. If we really want a guy like Fowler, we're probably going to have to give up something to get a chance to lock them up before free agency.

 

[Henkka]

1)Ericsson's contract is the biggest albatross that we have on the roster. Helm and Abby have way more value that J.E.

Nope.

Ericsson is overpaid by probably 1 million. Use him at 3rd pair and PK, and he is fine.

He was fine on that role all 2016-17 season, if you watched the games.

When he is promoted to TOP4, then he is at problems.

Imo, no-brainer plan is to use Ericsson for 2,5 half season as a 3rd pairing defenceman (we don't really have anybody to replace him in the system) and trade him at 2020 deadline. He would net 2nd rounder at least there.