OT: The quality of NHL hockey and its rapid deterioration

[socko]

I figure most people who find today's hockey entertaining weren't around for the 80s. The game was killed by coaching. It has largely become soccer on ice.

 

[stealth1]

Hockey has changed a lot since the first lockout. I loved watching the teams built on speed and finesse. Now with obstruction back in the game. Its gone back to pre-lockout, where the best teams are mostly built on grinding and clutch and grab.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Just go to 4 on 4. If you want you can make power plays so that the pp team can ice an extra skater if you're not a fan of too many 4 on 3 PP opportunities. The boys are too big and fast now, the time to Widener lengthen the ice was 25 years ago when all the new buildings were being designed.

That's crazy. Put the red line back in like its supposed to be and get rid of that idiotic trapezoid. There was more scoring before these brains dead changes they made to try looking smart.

They are screwing with mother nature making changes to the heritage of the game. Enough already. They should reverse it here. It has not produced more scoring and softened the game to the point of European hockey. The difference is they are softer because of the extra ice.

I don't agree we need more space for a already to soft game. They need to toughen it up and the toughest players will rise to the top.

 

[stanleyorbust]

I'm sure this has been posted, but even former NHL players believe that teams are less focused on skill.

See Larionov article where he mentions Datsuk.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/miracle-on-ice-hockey-russia/

 

[Nylanderthal]

That's crazy. Put the red line back in like its supposed to be and get rid of that idiotic trapezoid. There was more scoring before these brains dead changes they made to try looking smart.

They are screwing with mother nature making changes to the heritage of the game. Enough already. They should reverse it here. It has not produced more scoring and softened the game to the point of European hockey. The difference is they are softer because of the extra ice.

I don't agree we need more space for a already to soft game. They need to toughen it up and the toughest players will rise to the top.

Good ole' ontario boys from taranna eh grapes?

 

[Snow Dog]

I'm sure this has been posted, but even former NHL players believe that teams are less focused on skill.

See Larionov article where he mentions Datsuk.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/miracle-on-ice-hockey-russia/

He's 100% right.From day 1 defence is pushed onto players no matter what their age.Stop the goals before scoring them.A load of crap.The Leafs used to be fun to watch when they were cheating.Lots of shot,lots of skating,lots of turnovers.It makes things more exciting.They still lost but it was better to watch.

 

[Bullseye]

He's 100% right.From day 1 defence is pushed onto players no matter what their age.Stop the goals before scoring them.A load of crap.The Leafs used to be fun to watch when they were cheating.Lots of shot,lots of skating,lots of turnovers.It makes things more exciting.They still lost but it was better to watch.

Ok Mr. Wilson.

 

[hoglund]

I promise it hasn't.

Since 2001 Hockey Canada has had 17% more registered players under 18. 59% more female players now registered during the same time.

Just based on population and technology I assure you as well there was a large increase from 1991 - 2001

That's not even including the American gains. The talent pool is healthy.

you misunderstood me, if you only have 6 teams to try out for, the best are going to make it, now that there's 30 teams, the REJECTS who didn't make the 6 teams can now fill the roster for the other 26 teams.

 

[BraveCanadian]

I'm sure this has been posted, but even former NHL players believe that teams are less focused on skill.

See Larionov article where he mentions Datsuk.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/miracle-on-ice-hockey-russia/

I think that is pretty obvious.

Kids have the creativity coached out of them and teams play such a risk adverse game now that they are basically playing not to lose all the time.

Combine that with 6'3-6'6 goalies, the referees allowing the clutch and grab, and skaters with better equipment that lets them block tons of shots ...

Borrrring.

 

[KapG]

I see so much clutching and grabbing along the boards its not even funny.

The game truly can be unwatchable at times.

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

I think that is pretty obvious.

Kids have the creativity coached out of them and teams play such a risk adverse game now that they are basically playing not to lose all the time.

Combine that with 6'3-6'6 goalies, the referees allowing the clutch and grab, and skaters with better equipment that lets them block tons of shots ...

Borrrring.

This I absolutely HATE.

 

[Snow Dog]

Picking size over skill from a young age is what is really killing hockey.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

you misunderstood me, if you only have 6 teams to try out for, the best are going to make it, now that there's 30 teams, the REJECTS who didn't make the 6 teams can now fill the roster for the other 26 teams.

This.

Even just in the Ballard time, there were 20-21 teams. Just imagine removing 10 NHL teams and spreading out that talent to the other 20 teams.... and the prospect pools would be amazing. (Except when Ballard trades them all, besides the point)

There are probably only a handful of 4th liners that would even play in the NHL back then. Close to 1/3 of the 3rd liners would be lucky to find a NHL job.

 

[Snow Dog]

This.

Even just in the Ballard time, there were 20-21 teams. Just imagine removing 10 NHL teams and spreading out that talent to the other 20 teams.... and the prospect pools would be amazing. (Except when Ballard trades them all, besides the point)

There are probably only a handful of 4th liners that would even play in the NHL back then. Close to 1/3 of the 3rd liners would be lucky to find a NHL job.

We didn't have too many Europeans then.I have no idea the % of Europeans in the league but that expands the player pool quite a bit.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

The quality has rapidly deteriorated? I disagree.

Players are better and faster. Coaching is better, and almost any coach can implement a good defensive system these days. And goaltenders are much sounder and better coached than ever before.

Perhaps watching too many Leaf games has effected your thinking? Watching more non-Leaf games might be a good idea in this case.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Good ole' ontario boys from taranna eh grapes?

That's right Ron. Never mind this guy everyone." How much time do we have".

 

[Snow Dog]

Good ole' ontario boys from taranna eh grapes?

Is this supposed to be a shot at Ontario born players?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

The quality has rapidly deteriorated? I disagree.

Players are better and faster. Coaching is better, and almost any coach can implement a good defensive system these days. And goaltenders are much sounder and better coached than ever before.

Perhaps watching too many Leaf games has effected your thinking? Watching more non-Leaf games might be a good idea in this case.

None of those things means the quality of the game is better. The point is to entertain people. The way the game is played today is far from entertaining. The Leafs sucked in the 80's yet were still very entertaining.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

The quality has rapidly deteriorated? I disagree.

Players are better and faster. Coaching is better, and almost any coach can implement a good defensive system these days. And goaltenders are much sounder and better coached than ever before.

Perhaps watching too many Leaf games has effected your thinking? Watching more non-Leaf games might be a good idea in this case.

None of those things means the quality of the game is better. The point is to entertain people. The way the game is played today is far from entertaining. The Leafs sucked in the 80's yet were still very entertaining.

OK - better quality players then? But, not sure how better skaters, better goalies and better coaching does not translate to better quality …..???

If the OP was about more entertaining hockey, then maybe he word "entertaining" should have been used.

The Leafs of the 1980’s were lacking in many areas from ownership to management, coaches, scouts, development of their draft picks and ill-advised trades - the worst being the incomprehensible trading in 1989 by general manager Floyd Smith of the Leafs’ first round draft choice in a year where future franchise type players such as Eric Lindros and Scott Niedermayer were available. Smith traded this pick for journeyman defenseman Tom Kurvers.

I guess we've sunk so low that we are now envious of the Ballard era?

 

[Snow Dog]

dump,chase,cycle.Dump chase cycle.Dump,chase,cycle.real exciting stuff.

 

[dimi78]

dump,chase,cycle.Dump chase cycle.Dump,chase,cycle.real exciting stuff.

This has always been part of the game LOL! Even when Gretzky played. In fact most of his points came from off the cycle in his office behind the net making plays.

Datsyuck one of the most entertaining players in the game along with P. Kane are at there best playing off the cycle.

Did you watch the Larionov line the KLM line play in there day? That article in which Larionov speaks has nothing to do about the game or it's rules. Coaches are killing hockey, coaches are killing the talent out of this league. We have 2 examples on our Leafs right now Kadri & Gardiner.

2 quotes from the Larionov article that should really sink in to so many of you into understanding what's wrong with both Kadri & Gardiner not to mention hockey as whole in how we've been doing a severe disservice to these guys limiting what they can do

If I was just coming into the league today, I would probably be considered too small. I would be sent down to the minors after my first or second neutral zone turnover

Many young players who are intelligent and can see the game four moves ahead are not valued. They’re told “simple, simple, simple.â€

Simple! Simple! Simple!

There's nothing wrong with the rules of the game or how it's played. What's wrong with the game is coaching placing limitations on talent that shouldn't have shackles on them in the first place. Just about all coaches give leeway to it's top line after that though not so much. That's why it seems like were watching robots on ice. Any player not on the top line breaking away to play a creative game ends up getting ripped to shreds as selfish, not buying in, lacks hockey IQ and my favorite of the lot a coach killer.

Best coach in the NHL today right now is in Tampa. He's not like the pandemic of these past 20 + years with coaches with huge egos where they're the first, 2nd and 3rd star of the game. The worst I've seen is Carlyle.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Is this supposed to be a shot at Ontario born players?

Not even close, everyone knows the GTA is the biggest and best breeding grounds for NHL players in the world. Try reading the xenophobic garbage I quoted. Skill>> size. Every day. I don't care how tall or where a player is from, I care about the size of his heart and the amount of skill he has, that's it.

 

[bluetib]

I see a lot of room in the five hole.

Fixed

 

[bluetib]

If you want good hockey, just wait til the playoffs...that's when things really get going.

Is this the same moment referees stop calling penalties

They simply need to apply the same rules they do in the playoffs for regular season

 

[crump]

It's true the players have become too skillful for the size of the rink. Skill in Speed, skating techniques, coaching tactics has made the spaces smaller.

Watch Bobby Orr from the 70's, there are an awful lot of awful players in terms of skill in skating, speed and knowledge of where to go. I love Bobby, I think he's the best ever, but even he would be just human on today's rinks.



Look at the other players, diving at him, 3-1, drive by stick checks, they make kessel look like a selke candidate. Orr didn't need mad stick skills, just speed and vision then a quick deke and he was by them.

I think the overall skill level has gone up. You no longer see the end to end rush much more. It happens, but on bad line changes etc. goalies have become thicker and have more tools now which equals lower scoring. I always thought the rinks should be bigger.