OT: The quality of NHL hockey and its rapid deterioration

[Swervin81]

Sorry if this isn't thread-worthy, or if this may just be me ranting after a long and tiring and just brutal Leaf season, but I feel as if this is an issue that I haven't seen discussed more on here, but I feel is one that needs to be discussed more: The state of NHL hockey, the quality of it and how it has gone on a downward spiral.

Let's face it... this is a low point for the sport. Honestly, we're about to have our lowest scoring season in the league in 40 years (!!!). The highest scorer in the league will struggle to break 90. About half the league, if not more, playing styles of hockey so mundane and boring that you could not pay me even a million bucks to watch live. Goalies getting bigger in size with gigantic gear that makes them look herculean, like lacrosse goalies. Clutching and grabbing and constant interference not getting called unless it's blatantly obvious. Trap hockey being run by a lot of teams after how the Red Wings and Devils had success with it (although the Wings had so much talent, it didn't matter) in the late 90's and early 2000's because it's been thought that that's the only way that winning can be accomplished today. Hitting slowly going the way of the dodo bird. How much lower can it go? Top scorer not even breaking PPG? Vezina winners at numbers Hasek could only dream of (1.5 GAA, .960 SV%)? New lows in 90 years, back when forward ****ing passes weren't allowed? Something has to be done before it continues spiraling in this current direction. Listen, I love hockey and will never stop loving it. It's the greatest sport on earth at its best, and this is something I will never EVER stop saying. That said... this league has become garbage again. I have had less motivation than ever to watch out of market games because I can barely get through a period without being bored out of my mind.

All that said... what can be done? I mean, actually calling interference and reducing goalie equipment would be a good start. Just please never ever suggest international sized ice or I will flip. Did you not watch the Olympics? It was so godawfully horrible with all the trapping, it was 1000x worse than today's NHL.

Now I'm not at all advocating for each game to be a 6-5/7-6 fire drill game. Far from it. If there end up being plenty of 2-1 or 1-0 games, so be it. I just want SCORING CHANCES to be increased. I just want to see an increase in legit scoring chances and quality plays. If those plays can't be finished off, nothing I can do about it then. I'm just saying I want changes made so that scoring chances increase, and not as much goals, per se.

Not sure if a lot of people feel me on this, as a lot of people defend this crap as winning hockey, and for the longest time, I defended it too, but this is just such a horrendous low for hockey, I just had to rant about it. Anyways, hopefully the league actually starts heeding advice and doesn't continue down this downward spiral of crappy, garbage hockey.

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[King Leaf]

Sorry if this isn't thread-worthy, or if this may just be me ranting after a long and tiring and just brutal Leaf season, but I feel as if this is an issue that I haven't seen discussed more on here, but I feel is one that needs to be discussed more: The state of NHL hockey, the quality of it and how it has gone on a downward spiral.

Let's face it... this is a low point for the sport. Honestly, we're about to have our lowest scoring season in the league in 40 years (!!!). The highest scorer in the league will struggle to break 90. About half the league, if not more, playing styles of hockey so mundane and boring that you could not pay me even a million bucks to watch live. Goalies getting bigger in size with gigantic gear that makes them look herculean, like lacrosse goalies. Clutching and grabbing and constant interference not getting called unless it's blatantly obvious. Trap hockey being run by a lot of teams after how the Red Wings and Devils had success with it (although the Wings had so much talent, it didn't matter) in the late 90's and early 2000's because it's been thought that that's the only way that winning can be accomplished today. Hitting slowly going the way of the dodo bird. How much lower can it go? Top scorer not even breaking PPG? Vezina winners at numbers Hasek could only dream of (1.5 GAA, .960 SV%)? New lows in 90 years, back when forward ****ing passes weren't allowed? Something has to be done before it continues spiraling in this current direction. Listen, I love hockey and will never stop loving it. It's the greatest sport on earth at its best, and this is something I will never EVER stop saying. That said... this league has become garbage again. I have had less motivation than ever to watch out of market games because I can barely get through a period without being bored out of my mind.

All that said... what can be done? I mean, actually calling interference and reducing goalie equipment would be a good start. Just please never ever suggest international sized ice or I will flip. Did you not watch the Olympics? It was so godawfully horrible with all the trapping, it was 1000x worse than today's NHL.

Now I'm not at all advocating for each game to be a 6-5/7-6 fire drill game. Far from it. If there end up being plenty of 2-1 or 1-0 games, so be it. I just want SCORING CHANCES to be increased. I just want to see an increase in legit scoring chances and quality plays. If those plays can't be finished off, nothing I can do about it then. I'm just saying I want changes made so that scoring chances increase, and not as much goals, per se.

Not sure if a lot of people feel me on this, as a lot of people defend this crap as winning hockey, and for the longest time, I defended it too, but this is just such a horrendous low for hockey, I just had to rant about it. Anyways, hopefully the league actually starts heeding advice and doesn't continue down this downward spiral of crappy, garbage hockey.

Don't have time to reply with a response worthy of the post, but I think this is a pretty valid statement, and am looking forward to discussing it further.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I remember hearing a few months back on PTS where Bob had Randy Robles on, Where he basically said advanced stats and new analytics are "basically useless" in hockey saying and slightly paraphrasing "It will become more boring a predictable".

Actually here's the link

http://www.sportsnet.ca/podcast/prime-time-sports-october-21-4pm/

starts about 35:00 minutes in.



I can't say I'm completely convinced yet, But the these threads have been popping up a lot lately about the state of the game and the quality of it, And the biggest change in hockey in the last few seasons is the this advanced stats craze.

 

[yubbers]

That's what happens when you involve nerds with sports

 

[LeafsEqualDaBest]

you wouldn't be making this thread if the Leafs were fighting for first in the East

 

[Swervin81]

you wouldn't be making this thread if the Leafs were fighting for first in the East

That's why I apologized at the beginning of OP if I was just ranting out of frustration. I mean, it had something to do with it, I suppose, but it still doesn't change the fact that NHL hockey has deteriorated.

 

[officialmark*]

The NHL is more competitive, hence why you don't see single players scoring 130+ points anymore, but you can say the quality has gone down if that's what you're into.

 

[rdawg1234]

I think you guys are just watching the leafs too much, watching teams like Calgary for example has been a blast.

it's become more of a team game, not one star dominating with 100+ points

 

[Swervin81]

I remember hearing a few months back on PTS where Bob had Randy Robles on, Where he basically said advanced stats and new analytics are "basically useless" in hockey saying and slightly paraphrasing "It will become more boring a predictable".

Actually here's the link

http://www.sportsnet.ca/podcast/prime-time-sports-october-21-4pm/

starts about 35:00 minutes in.



I can't say I'm completely convinced yet, But the these threads have been popping up a lot lately about the state of the game and the quality of it, And the biggest change in hockey in the last few seasons is the this advanced stats craze.

I don't think it is all analytics. I think a lot of blame goes towards the fact that stats like Corsi, Fenwick, and PDO are pretty much the "face" of hockey analytics (especially the former two), and encourage the type of hockey you see today (constant cycling with perimeter shots) and a lot of people don't realize the multitude of other stats. Besides, we went through this problem back in the early to mid 2000's. 2004 was the previous low point (and may still very well be).

 

[Swervin81]

The NHL is more competitive, hence why you don't see single players scoring 130+ points anymore, but you can say the quality has gone down if that's what you're into.

Clutching and grabbing =/= competitive. Those less competitive teams can just clutch and grab and interfere with superior players and completely neutralize them. I don't mind parity, it's a good thing, but not when it is brought in artificially like today with clutching/grabbing and the 3 point games, it becomes a problem.

And no, as I said, I'm not advocating for 80's level firewagon crap like it seems I am. I'm just advocating for more scoring chances and something reasonable.

 

[hotpaws]

the quality of the players have never been higher

-scoring is down due to a smaller gap between players
-higher quality goaltending
-teams focusing on defense since it's been proven to have more success than an offensive system

this season has been boring as a Leaf fan due to our collapse being much earlier than usual

Hockey is still very entertaining depending on the teams playing , there's more to the NHL than just watching our collection of heartless players .

 

[Swervin81]

I think you guys are just watching the leafs too much, watching teams like Calgary for example has been a blast.

it's become more of a team game, not one star dominating with 100+ points

True, standard deviation has gone down. Depth players are getting better. A lot of that has to do with the overall qulity of the players increasing, though. No longer you have a top 6 and top 4 and a goalie a bunch of pylons like the 80's. I don't mind depth players getting better and a team game being played. I just mind when obstruction and clutch/grab drives down scoring from top level guys. I don't want this to become a superstar league like the NBA. As I said, far from it. There has to be a middle ground, though, between this crappy, washed down, artificial parity, and a full on superstar dominated league. One where depth players can do well and a team game is still emphasized (which they still would since the quality of players is very high), but also one where the best players can be the best players. Hard to strike a perfect balance.

 

[Banic]

I feel it really depends on what you like. Some people love close defensive checking hockey. I feel the caliber of the players, especially goal tending has improved. Also due to the cap, parity is becoming stronger among many teams and therefore causing closer games with less run and gun offenses.

 

[Swervin81]

GAA nowadays is in the low 2.5's. Say what you want about 05/06, but that's probably the closest we'll get to a reasonable balance. Goals against that year was 2.93 and they actually called interference. If they called it that tight again, all this clutching and grabbing crap would be gone. Most of my solution comes from the elimination of clutching and grabbing. I'm not disputing the quality of players going up or depth players getting better. I'm just saying there needs to be a good balance and that clutching and grabbing is an abomination to the sport.

 

[soulie]

Watch the Kings play hockey, if there was a mandate to address clutch and grab you could call that team for interference every 2nd minute of the game . Sadly it looks like that is no longer the focus of the NHL.

 

[Teeder9]

I guess I'll play Devil's advocate. I don't buy that the quality of players is better, I think the quality of player has evened out. There are no Orr's, Gretzky's, or Lemieux's. The very best player in the NHL is only barely better than the next best, who is only barely better than the next and so on. The average 2nd line player isn't much better than the just good 3rd line player. Scoring is down because teams don't try to score more than they try and stop the other team from scoring. As far as clutching and grabbing goes, when I see any player drag someone from center ice to the goaltender like Lemieux used to have to do without a call and a penalty shot I'll believe it.

 

[HellasLEAF]

The rules can be tweaked over and over again, but the real issue is goalies are bigger faster stronger with lighter better equipment and the dimensions of the net are the same.

 

[Erdinger]

Watch the Kings play hockey, if there was a mandate to address clutch and grab you could call that team for interference every 2nd minute of the game . Sadly it looks like that is no longer the focus of the NHL.

Well I guess the Kings took a look at how successful Detroit has been over the last 20+ years and followed suit.

 

[scotian1]

I guess I'll play Devil's advocate. I don't buy that the quality of players is better, I think the quality of player has evened out. There are no Orr's, Gretzky's, or Lemieux's. The very best player in the NHL is only barely better than the next best, who is only barely better than the next and so on. The average 2nd line player isn't much better than the just good 3rd line player. Scoring is down because teams don't try to score more than they try and stop the other team from scoring. As far as clutching and grabbing goes, when I see any player drag someone from center ice to the goaltender like Lemieux used to have to do without a call and a penalty shot I'll believe it.

I blame part of that on the fact that so few players play shinny on outdoor lakes or ponds. Basically today, players are more like those turned out by cookie cutters where practices don't have much time for individual creativity.

 

[Erdinger]

I blame part of that on the fact that so few players play shinny on outdoor lakes or ponds. Basically today, players are more like those turned out by cookie cutters where practices don't have much time for individual creativity.

Phil likes to play shinny

 

[Suntouchable13]

Something that is bugging me is the schedule. Why do people like that a team has to play in every building in the NHL at least once? I don't want to see the Leafs play teams like Arizona, SJ, LA, Anaheim, Dallas, etc twice. What's the benefit of playing teams like that more than once a season? I want to see them play teams like the Isles, Rangers, Red Wings, Bruins, Habs, etc, more. You play your divisional opponents 4 times, and other conference opponents only 3 times? That's ********.

 

[Teeder9]

I blame part of that on the fact that so few players play shinny on outdoor lakes or ponds. Basically today, players are more like those turned out by cookie cutters where practices don't have much time for individual creativity.

Exactly. Back when I was a kid, you couldn't wait to get out and play in the backyard rink or on the road. My nephew gave up hockey 2 years ago because it bored the life out of him.

To add on to what I already said earlier, look back to Crosby's rookie season. Him and OV looked like superstars in the mold of the greats. Now? They both struggle just to repeat it. Are we to believe that in a 9 year period players became so much better that Crosby and OV can't break 90 points this year? Hardly. 6 years before that players were celebrating gretzky's career coming to an end. Are we to believe that those 6 years something incredible happened to babies? hardly. Iginla was already int he league. Jokinen was already in the league. Luongo was already in the league. ect ect What we have is a far bigger population to draft from and the players are more evenly spread out amongst the teams. They aren't better, there's just more good players to go around. Our Stanley cup winner from last year might not make the playoffs this year and still no one wants to face them

 

[Erdinger]

Exactly. Back when I was a kid, you couldn't wait to get out and play in the backyard rink or on the road. My nephew gave up hockey 2 years ago because it bored the life out of him.

To add on to what I already said earlier, look back to Crosby's rookie season. Him and OV looked like superstars in the mold of the greats. Now? They both struggle just to repeat it. Are we to believe that in a 9 year period players became so much better that Crosby and OV can't break 90 points this year? Hardly. 6 years before that players were celebrating gretzky's career coming to an end. Are we to believe that those 6 years something incredible happened to babies? hardly. Iginla was already int he league. Jokinen was already in the league. Luongo was already in the league. ect ect What we have is a far bigger population to draft from and the players are more evenly spread out amongst the teams. They aren't better, there's just more good players to go around. Our Stanley cup winner from last year might not make the playoffs this year and still no one wants to face them

Plus only rich kids can play organized hockey in places like Toronto these days.

 

[Teeder9]

Plus only rich kids can play organized hockey in places like Toronto these days.

Canadian |Tire will help with that...if you're rich

 

[666]

The rules can be tweaked over and over again, but the real issue is goalies are bigger faster stronger with lighter better equipment and the dimensions of the net are the same.

This is the answer. The problem is advanced stick technology requires advanced goaltender technology. Simple fix is to go back to wooden sticks but that won't happen.