The PP...scheme or personnel?

[hawksfan50]

One of the crucial areas Hawks must improve on this season to make the playoffs and contend is the PP...

So there was much ballyhoo about the Haks going to a 1-3-1 scheme to try to improve PP results ...presumably there would only be 1 dman playing the entire blue line. .and Hawks would pressure with 4 forwards one of them playing in the semi-high middle slot to direct pucks to either side or get off a shot from there and the other 3 forwards could crash the net when that happened. ..


However we see that KEITH is still the #1 PP d-man in this 1-3-1 configuration and that on the 2nd PP unit Q now has 2 d-man playing the point in a traditional 3-2 format...So it seems the scheme is split with 2 sets of differing structures...He has His and Sean at the points in the traditional 3-2 2nd unit structure.

Now.. since Kane and Tie wasted both on unit #1 of the op ..the scheme was changed to try to help them score more...Kane has been lousy the previous 2 seasons on the PP with just 22 and 23 points respectively ..In his career Kane only cracked 40 PP points once ..but had others between 35-39 a few times too. .Fore sure we cannot be paying any $10.5 for just 22 or 23 PP points...If you want to get 80-90 points in the NHL you will need about 40 from the PP. .So Kane should be able to get near 40 PP points if he gives us 80-90 points or more overall..

But with Toews. ..we know he is not capable ofv80-90 point seasons... Since he cannot do that...40 PP points for him is impossible. .and if we get just his usual high teens or low 20s PP points then why is he even on any PP unit ? He is not good enough a PP guy to even be considered for the 2nd PP unit..and again n why are we allocating $10.5 on the cap for such a poor PP guy?


Do not get me started with Keith on any PP unit ..
You know the drill....he will attempt 9 shots...3 will be blocked and 4 will miss the net....2 will get on net but the opps goalie will make stops on these other 2 look routine.


So ...scheme change will not help that first unit...Kane Toews and Keith will ruin that 1st PP because they are not good on the PP. ..

Could any other peronnell do better? There must be someone better?

?

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[RememberTheRoar]

One of the crucial areas Hawks must improve on this season to make the playoffs and contend is the PP...

So there was much ballyhoo about the Haks going to a 1-3-1 scheme to try to improve PP results ...presumably there would only be 1 dman playing the entire blue line. .and Hawks would pressure with 4 forwards one of them playing in the semi-high middle slot to direct pucks to either side or get off a shot from there and the other 3 forwards could crash the net when that happened. ..


However we see that KEITH is still the #1 PP d-man in this 1-3-1 configuration and that on the 2nd PP unit Q now has 2 d-man playing the point in a traditional 3-2 format...So it seems the scheme is split with 2 sets of differing structures...He has His and Sean at the points in the traditional 3-2 2nd unit structure.

Now.. since Kane and Tie wasted both on unit #1 of the op ..the scheme was changed to try to help them score more...Kane has been lousy the previous 2 seasons on the PP with just 22 and 23 points respectively ..In his career Kane only cracked 40 PP points once ..but had others between 35-39 a few times too. .Fore sure we cannot be paying any $10.5 for just 22 or 23 PP points...If you want to get 80-90 points in the NHL you will need about 40 from the PP. .So Kane should be able to get near 40 PP points if he gives us 80-90 points or more overall..

But with Toews. ..we know he is not capable ofv80-90 point seasons... Since he cannot do that...40 PP points for him is impossible. .and if we get just his usual high teens or low 20s PP points then why is he even on any PP unit ? He is not good enough a PP guy to even be considered for the 2nd PP unit..and again n why are we allocating $10.5 on the cap for such a poor PP guy?


Do not get me started with Keith on any PP unit ..
You know the drill....he will attempt 9 shots...3 will be blocked and 4 will miss the net....2 will get on net but the opps goalie will make stops on these other 2 look routine.


So ...scheme change will not help that first unit...Kane Toews and Keith will ruin that 1st PP because they are not good on the PP. ..

Could any other peronnell do better? There must be someone better?

?

Patrick Kane- 6th most power play points of any NHL player in the past decade, but not good on the power play and will ruin it. Okay.

 

[Pez68]

He's gone off the deep end or is straight trolling.

 

[piteus]

Power play? How about we start with something simple like ... a decent penalty kill.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Power play? How about we start with something simple like ... a decent penalty kill.

No reason both can’t be fixed simultaneously. Different personnel for the most part.

 

[piteus]

No reason both can’t be fixed simultaneously. Different personnel for the most part.

Beggars can't be choosers.

 

[BobbyJet]

Power play? How about we start with something simple like ... a decent penalty kill.

That somehow the PK is more important than the PP is a myth as far as I'm concerned.
Specialty teams are more important than ever in this era. Both ST's.
Besides we have Kruger now. LOL

 

[AmericanDream]

Patrick Kane- 6th most power play points of any NHL player in the past decade, but not good on the power play and will ruin it. Okay.

don't even bother, at this stage he just likes hearing his own voice...I never have seen another poster start threads and not respond back DESPITE asking f***ing questions in his long winded or drunk winded topics...just save yourself the time, read his last 2 sentences of each post, he summarizes whatever he was trying to say in his form of English he uses...that is all I do, well worth it if you ask me!!

 

[RememberTheRoar]

don't even bother, at this stage he just likes hearing his own voice...I never have seen another poster start threads and not respond back DESPITE asking ****ing questions in his long winded or drunk winded topics...just save yourself the time, read his last 2 sentences of each post, he summarizes whatever he was trying to say in his form of English he uses...that is all I do, well worth it if you ask me!!

Haha funny thing is that’s exactly what I did and that’s where he wrote Kane will ruin the power play. I don’t even know what he wrote before that, but if it got him to the conclusion that Kane is bad on the PP, I know it’s not worth my time.

 

[dizzler]

Will Jokiharju play PP?

 

[ClydeLee]

It can be both because they've never had someone who is a high end point player.

But I've always been against the shoot more mantra because the times they ever were great on the Pp. They thrived on cross cease passes and just taking those shots to make plays. In 10-11 it seemed it couldnt be stopped, until it in game 7.

 

[BobbyJet]

It can be both because they've never had someone who is a high end point player.

But I've always been against the shoot more mantra because the times they ever were great on the Pp. They thrived on cross cease passes and just taking those shots to make plays. In 10-11 it seemed it couldnt be stopped, until it in game 7.

I disagree vehemently. The cross ice passes rarely work when they become so predictable.
To shoot more all by itself won't work either unless there is significantly more net presence. Getting those players into the dirty areas and getting the puck to the net as much as possible makes for a simple and effective approach. I'd like to see Toews, AA and/or Hayden play that role and forget the globe trotter stuff that ops players love to take their positions and watch as the clock ticks away.

 

[Pez68]

The problem with the Hawks' PP is that...nobody f***ing moves.

 

[ClydeLee]

I disagree vehemently. The cross ice passes rarely work when they become so predictable.
To shoot more all by itself won't work either unless there is significantly more net presence. Getting those players into the dirty areas and getting the puck to the net as much as possible makes for a simple and effective approach. I'd like to see Toews, AA and/or Hayden play that role and forget the globe trotter stuff that ops players love to take their positions and watch as the clock ticks away.

The cross crease or attacking it opened up so much more. Toews still tries his from behind the net semi wrap around but it worked when from that spot others anticipated it going to the guy in the front or across.

In 11 and 15-16 when they were tip units they actually had great net presence. From Shaw, who I never got the animosity some had of him in that role.. why because he was short? And oddly in 10-11 it was actually Kopecky on that top unit a lot. Who I also thought learned how to do that well from the greats in Detroit.

I dont see this system working cause it will still be perimeter passing trying to keep the puck alive but no real point threat or great 1 time threat unless Gus or Joki develop some.

 

[Pez68]

The cross ice works when you have multiple shooting options and guys moving around, to open it up. Hawks have neither.

 

[BobbyJet]

The cross ice works when you have multiple shooting options and guys moving around, to open it up. Hawks have neither.

Add better net presence and I agree. If ops goalie can see clean shots coming his way, chances are he makes the stop and there's much less chance of a rebound.

Often Hawks are trying to force those cross ice passes, and that is a recipe for a bad PP.

 

[Pez68]

Add better net presence and I agree. If ops goalie can see clean shots coming his way, chances are he makes the stop and there's much less chance of a rebound.

Often Hawks are trying to force those cross ice passes, and that is a recipe for a bad PP.

I disagree. You just need to setup the f***ing PP correctly, with SHOOTING OPTIONS. The Hawks setup is so predictable, because you only ever have two possible shooting options. This is a great video that shows the large majority of Washington's PP goals have little net front presence. They pretty much never have a guy just standing around in front of the net. They are scored because the puck is constantly moving, and every guy on the ice can take a one-timer.....

 

[RememberTheRoar]

I disagree. You just need to setup the ****ing PP correctly, with SHOOTING OPTIONS. The Hawks setup is so predictable, because you only ever have two possible shooting options. This is a great video that shows the large majority of Washington's PP goals have little net front presence. They pretty much never have a guy just standing around in front of the net. They are scored because the puck is constantly moving, and every guy on the ice can take a one-timer.....

This is the second time I’ve seen someone say net front presence isn’t a huge deal. IIRC @BK mentioned it last week when talking about a DeBrincat-Schmaltz-Kane line.

Is this netfront presence concept an overrated thing?

 

[ChiHawks10]

This is the second time I’ve seen someone say net front presence isn’t a huge deal. IIRC @BK mentioned it last week when talking about a DeBrincat-Schmaltz-Kane line.

Is this netfront presence concept an overrated thing?

It's not that necessary on a well-functioning PP.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

It's not that necessary on a well-functioning PP.

How about on a 5v5 scoring line?

 

[ChiHawks10]

How about on a 5v5 scoring line?

More important as you don't have a constantly open man advantage.

When you're on the PP, and a guy is always going to be open, you're better off keeping everybody moving in the zone, and setting up one-timers from different areas. That one guy(if the PP scheme is working correctly) will always have open ice in front of him, and a clean look at the net. Passes and one-timers are faster than a goalie can move side-to-side.

When 5v5 it's a little more critical as there isn't just a guy left open the entire time. Every guy is accounted for by a defender, so you want to try and score some of those gritty goals from in front with someone parked there. Not necessary for a line to function well, though.

All just my opinion.

 

[piteus]

That somehow the PK is more important than the PP is a myth as far as I'm concerned.
Specialty teams are more important than ever in this era. Both ST's.
Besides we have Kruger now. LOL

I never said the PK was more important. However, stopping goals take less skill than scoring goals. Hence, PKs should be easier to improve on.

 

[BobbyJet]

It's not that necessary on a well-functioning PP.

A good PP has players who recognize what the ops is giving you and exploit it. It doesn't have to be pretty especially when a team is having issues scoring; effective net presence will yield ugly goals. They all count.

Take Blackhawks PK as an example: the Q passive system typically leaves players uncovered near the blue paint, and leaves the point men uncovered ... hence the good teams will work the puck to the point then look for the screen or deflection. A good percentage of the goals against our PK are pinball shots or short rebounds that the goalie has little chance of stopping. Blackhawks PP seldom scores in that manner. They are constantly looking for the perfect goal and overhandle the puck, which is great when it works but it generally doesn't work for this team.

 

[ChiHawks10]

A good PP has players who recognize what the ops is giving you and exploit it. It doesn't have to be pretty especially when a team is having issues scoring; effective net presence will yield ugly goals. They all count.

Take Blackhawks PK as an example: the Q passive system typically leaves players uncovered near the blue paint, and leaves the point men uncovered ... hence the good teams will work the puck to the point then look for the screen or deflection. A good percentage of the goals against our PK are pinball shots or short rebounds that the goalie has little chance of stopping. Blackhawks PP seldom scores in that manner. They are constantly looking for the perfect goal and overhandle the puck, which is great when it works but it generally doesn't work for this team.

Every team uses different systems/schemes for their PP. They all have different strategies, different strengths, and different weaknesses.

 

[Pez68]

A good PP has players who recognize what the ops is giving you and exploit it. It doesn't have to be pretty especially when a team is having issues scoring; effective net presence will yield ugly goals. They all count.

Take Blackhawks PK as an example: the Q passive system typically leaves players uncovered near the blue paint, and leaves the point men uncovered ... hence the good teams will work the puck to the point then look for the screen or deflection. A good percentage of the goals against our PK are pinball shots or short rebounds that the goalie has little chance of stopping. Blackhawks PP seldom scores in that manner. They are constantly looking for the perfect goal and overhandle the puck, which is great when it works but it generally doesn't work for this team.

Again, I disagree. The best PPs ARE pretty. The PP is where skilled players should shine. I think it's a huge f***ing waste to stick a guy in front of the net the entire power play. It is such an antiquated way of approaching the power play. Why would you take a situation where you have a man advantage...and then nullify that man advantage by removing a player as a passing and shooting option? It is backwards thinking, and the Hawks playing Toews in front of the net on the power play is a huge reason their PP has struggled for the better part of a decade. The Hawks' PP was at it's best when you had Sharp and Seabrook as trigger men off of passes from the right side of the ice, and Keith, Kane and Toews as trigger men off passes from the left... Handedness is probably the single most important aspect of a lethal power play. Why do you think the Caps pretty much always have three RH shots on the ice?

Net front presence relies on luck and bounces way too much for my tastes. Use your f***ing skill.