OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: We'll Have A Gay Old Time

[Big McLargehuge]

Opening up with a minor trade...the Pirates traded Quincy Latimore to Cleveland for Jeanmar Gomez.

Gomez likely fills out Indianapolis's rotation and gives an extra depth option...hard to see how he'd make it to Pittsburgh, but we all know how the Pirates love those groundball pitchers. Latimore was a non-prospect, so nothing given up. Latimore has intriguing power (though he's topped out at 19 in the minors thus far, so it's not like he crushes the ball and with his frame he's not likely to add much more strength), but literally nothing else and has about as good of a chance of making the Majors as I do.

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[Shockmaster]

8-8 happened for a lot of reasons other than just Haley. I don't think the season would have gone much different with Arians or anybody else calling plays. The O-Line was decimated by years end, the QB got hurt, the D had a piss poor pass rush, too many turnovers at times, not enough takeaways by the D. Troy missed the bulk of the year. Harrison didn't get going until very late in the season. Woodley was horrible. The list of reasons they were 8-8 is almost endless.

A lot of that stuff happened under Arians too. In fact, even when his o-line was healthy it was terrible. It was never an excuse for him.

I don't understand the double-standard. Is it because Haley was an Art Rooney II hire and everybody in Pittsburgh is scared of criticizing a move made by him?

Ultimately, the Haley offense was no better than the Arians offense. The Falcons changed both their coordinators and are the #1 seed in the NFC. Will they choke against Seattle? Maybe. But they're sure in a better position than the Steelers are right now.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

So are the Pirates not signing Francisco Liriano?

 

[Big McLargehuge]

So are the Pirates not signing Francisco Liriano?

We can't sign him until he passes a physical (and you don't waive the physical on an $8.5/million a year contract)...but considering the issue is with his non-throwing arm I don't see a reason things won't go through in the end.

 

[End of Line]

No Ohio State? I am disappoint.

 

[ColePens]

I hate this terrible OP.

 

[Crafton]

**** the sonics. dublife forever!

come on, Pittsburgh is "the city of bridges." the warriors logo is an iconic bridge. match made in heaven.

 

[Captain Hook]

A lot of that stuff happened under Arians too. In fact, even when his o-line was healthy it was terrible. It was never an excuse for him.

I don't understand the double-standard. Is it because Haley was an Art Rooney II hire and everybody in Pittsburgh is scared of criticizing a move made by him?

Ultimately, the Haley offense was no better than the Arians offense. The Falcons changed both their coordinators and are the #1 seed in the NFC. Will they choke against Seattle? Maybe. But they're sure in a better position than the Steelers are right now.

I just think it's too soon to criticize him that much. I didn't judge Arians after his first year either so there's no double standard.

Arians ultimately had a handful of years to get the offense up toward the top of the league and never did. Haley might not either but I think it's a rush to judgement to fire Haley so quickly.

 

[sniugneP]

It came down to execution. It was very good especially on third downs before Ben injury. I don't remember ran the ball a lot back then. It was Ben's injury changed everything. Execution wasn't there. I think Haley kinda forced to run more often. I won't have a problem with Haley coming back for next season.

 

[Shockmaster]

I just think it's too soon to criticize him that much. I didn't judge Arians after his first year either so there's no double standard.

Arians ultimately had a handful of years to get the offense up toward the top of the league and never did. Haley might not either but I think it's a rush to judgement to fire Haley so quickly.

Arians had the 9th ranked offense in his first year and the Steelers won the division. Even before Ben went down Haley's offense wasn't scoring as many points as it should. If Arians could have a good offense his first season, why couldn't Haley?

In 2009, the last time they missed the playoffs, the Steelers had the 12th ranked offense. Arians took a lot of heat for that year, but in reality the defense blew that season because they couldn't hold a fourth quarter lead. Art II shifted the blame on the offense, insisting the reason the defense couldn't hold leads was because the offense wasn't running the ball enough. The Steelers ranked 5th in time of possession that year, so the defense got a few breathers. Ever since Art II decided to meddle this offense has been underachieving. He needs to accept that the league is changing and that it's not the early 70's anymore. Time of possession is no longer king, scoring is.

 

[Sivek]

Offense looked good early on because Ben was bailing the O out on an unsustainable level on 3rd downs, 3rd and long specifically. There was no way to sustain the numbers he was putting up on those downs, no qb could be that good in those situations for that long of a period before falling back to normal levels. 3rd down success rate has a good bit of variance to it and it's not something your offense should count on to look good.

The best thing for any offense is to avoid getting in those situations in the first place. The O looked bad because it stopped converting an inordinate amount of 3rd and longs.

I'll have no problem if Haley leaves.

Under Arians, pretty sure the Steelers were ranked in the top 10 in offensive DVOA 4 out of 5 years, yet was constantly under fire. Under Haley, they were 19th. His previous year, Haley's O was 29th, 13th the year before that, 25th the year before that, yet he's an offensive guru when he has Kurt Warner, Fitzgerald, Boldin, etc.

Arians's offense never looked great to traditional ratings cause they were a ball control offense and traditional offensive stats in NFL are pretty damn misleading. The Colts with a rookie QB improved by 10 spots in DVOA this year with Arians serving as the head coach practically the whole year. He's obviously a very good coach that yinzers unfairly ragged on.

 

[BigBenSF*]

**** the sonics. dublife forever!

come on, Pittsburgh is "the city of bridges." the warriors logo is an iconic bridge. match made in heaven.

Looks like it's time to break these bad boys back out:

 

[Shockmaster]

Offense looked good early on because Ben was bailing the O out on an unsustainable level on 3rd downs, 3rd and long specifically. There was no way to sustain the numbers he was putting up on those downs, no qb could be that good in those situations for that long of a period before falling back to normal levels. 3rd down success rate has a good bit of variance to it and it's not something your offense should count on to look good.

The best thing for any offense is to avoid getting in those situations in the first place. The O looked bad because it stopped converting an inordinate amount of 3rd and longs.

I'll have no problem if Haley leaves.

Under Arians, pretty sure the Steelers were ranked in the top 10 in offensive DVOA 4 out of 5 years, yet was constantly under fire. Under Haley, they were 19th. His previous year, Haley's O was 29th, 13th the year before that, 25th the year before that, yet he's an offensive guru when he has Kurt Warner, Fitzgerald, Boldin, etc.

Arians's offense never looked great to traditional ratings cause they were a ball control offense and traditional offensive stats in NFL are pretty damn misleading. The Colts with a rookie QB improved by 10 spots in DVOA this year with Arians serving as the head coach practically the whole year. He's obviously a very good coach that yinzers unfairly ragged on.

One of the beefs yinzer nation had with Arians is that the Steelers didn't possess the ball enough. Turns out that has no merit. Arians' offense was always in the top 5 of the NFL in terms of time of possession - lead the league in 2011. Another myth was that Arians couldn't run the ball. Arians' offense averaged 4.4 yards/carry, Haley's averaged 3.7 yards/carry.

There's a lot of things you can nit-pick about the Arians offense, but its biggest issue was red zones. The offense would put up a ton of yards in between the 10's, but the play-calling lacked creativity in the red zone. Had Arians' offense gotten more TDs instead of FGs, I think Art Rooney II would have had a very hard time firing him regardless of his philosophies.

 

[Captain Hook]

Where were all you Arians supporters last year when Arians got canned? I don't remember reading any outrage here or anywhere else for that matter.

I agree 100% that the biggest failure of Arians offense was in the red zone and I think it was a big factor in losing his job.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Arians blows. I'm not going to go against anything I ever said. Maybe he's a better head coach than OC, but he ****ing sucks as an OC.
I also refuse to throw Haley under the bus after one season where just about everything went wrong.

 

[Captain Hook]

 

[Shockmaster]

Where were all you Arians supporters last year when Arians got canned? I don't remember reading any outrage here or anywhere else for that matter.

Well, I actually wasn't posting here at the time.

I was not against the firing for that very reason - Arians was bad in red zones. Haley was known for designing his offense to fit the strength of his players. In Arizona, it was a down field passing team with Warner, Fitzgerald, and Boldin. In Arizona, it was a run heavy team with Charles. It all pointed to this offense revolving around Ben and the WRs. It pointed to a down field passing team. But there was a big difference between Pittsburgh and the other teams Haley coached - the owner wasn't meddlesome in those cities.

Art II handcuffed Haley, making demands about how this offense should be run. As a result, Ben got a new playbook rammed down his throat by a guy he hardly knew and didn't trust. Two guys (Art and Todd Haley) that never played a down of football in their lives were telling Ben how to change his style. Instead of playing to their strengths, the Steelers played scared football. They were worried that Ben could get hurt. There was more emphasis on possessing the football rather than scoring points. Instead of grabbing games by the throat the Steelers basically played Marty ball.

Whenever the Steelers defense got a turnover, Arians would go for the kill shot often. After a turnover under Haley it was run, run, pass/sack, punt. No killer instinct, just scared football.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

Omar Khan interviewing for the Jets GM job.

 

[Crafton]

Omar Khan interviewing for the Jets GM job.

it's an expansive list. i'm not too worried yet.

@MMehtaNYDN
So to recap expanded Jets GM search: Upcoming interviews for Jerry Angelo, Omar Khan, Brian Gaine, John Idzik. Jim Popp also on radar. #nyj

 

[Pfnf]

I got tickets for Steelers-Vikings in London, I'm so happy can't wait to finally see a Pittsburgh sports team live

 

[SuburbanRhythm]

Chris Rainey asks "CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW, BEEOTCHHHH!?!?!?

 

[Crafton]

Looks like it's time to break these bad boys back out:

gorgeous. this season has been pretty damn exciting.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

Chris Rainey asks "CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW, BEEOTCHHHH!?!?!?

See ya Chris Rainey.

 

[Shockmaster]

See ya Chris Rainey.

I don't know..... they didn't cut James Harrison after he smacked his wife. Ta'amu went on a drunken driving rampage and almost got himself and many innocent people killed - was only sent to the practice squad.

The Steelers aren't on a higher moral ground than any other NFL team, they've receded back into the pack.

 

[Bennett Brauer]

Yeah I know. I thought they were going to cut Ta'amu this season. I don't know about Harrison.

Just too much stupidity, I thought the Steelers had higher moral values than that.