OT: The Pittsburgher Thread: They Killed Kenny!

[Pens1566]

5 rings is quite the difference, not to mention all the other SB and championship games he reached. It's laughable to say they are similar other than in some very specific ways.

It's not a surprise to me Belichick isn't the same without Brady. Talent (especially a franchise QB) was, is, and always will be the most important thing. Good coaching can only get so much out of mediocre talent. On the flip side, mediocre coaching can only get so much out of good talent. When you have mediocre coaching AND mediocre talent, you get Tomlin Purgatory.


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You know things are bleak when even the Tomlin apologists have to resort to "He's not THE biggest fraud" as their defense of him.

Uh, I'm not a Tomlin apologist.

 

[Josey Wales]

Once again Oswald Bates is a Bullshitter

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I feel like a broken record because my posts all boil down to the same thing and I'm hardly unique in saying it, but I can't even form opinions about the performance of the players on offense because of the coach on offense.

His play calling is of course atrocious, but calls begin with design and scheme. I can't know completely about the performance of the line, for example, because I don't know for sure what they're being asked to do on each play and how what they're being asked to do is designed to accomplish the play. Najee and Jaylen bring different things to the table, but it's hard to isolate their performance from the play call/design/scheme.

What if everyone is doing exactly what they've been coached to do - their position coaches would focus not only on fundamentals and basic teamwork but also on the design of the plays brought by the coordinator.

I think there are some judgements that can be made but I'm wary of any of them because of the structure that exists around them.

tl;dr -- Matt Canada is not good at his job.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

I feel like a broken record because my posts all boil down to the same thing and I'm hardly unique in saying it, but I can't even form opinions about the performance of the players on offense because of the coach on offense.

His play calling is of course atrocious, but calls begin with design and scheme. I can't know completely about the performance of the line, for example, because I don't know for sure what they're being asked to do on each play and how what they're being asked to do is designed to accomplish the play. Najee and Jaylen bring different things to the table, but it's hard to isolate their performance from the play call/design/scheme.

What if everyone is doing exactly what they've been coached to do - their position coaches would focus not only on fundamentals and basic teamwork but also on the design of the plays brought by the coordinator.

I think there are some judgements that can be made but I'm wary of any of them because of the structure that exists around them.

tl;dr -- Matt Canada is not good at his job.

You just need a slightly more than basics understanding of the game to see that they took the same plays/formations that worked agt LVR and tried it again vs Hou.

That’s how incompetent Canada and Tomlin are.

I can’t even believe I’m typing this about a pro football team but here we are.

But what do you expect from a coach who gets schooled by a rookie HC and QB tandem, when they had to start four backup o-lineman.

 

[Son Goku]

It's Tuesday and Canada STILL has a f***ing job.

 

[pistolpete11]

Uh, I'm not a Tomlin apologist.

The Tomlin apologist comment was auto-merged into my reply to you. That's why I added in the

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[JTG]

How does that make Cowher similar to Tomlin then?

Because neither one was a great X's and O's coach. The difference between the two is that one hired coordinators and the other has not. Both are more motivational types. Both were here way too long in regards to being a pro sports coach.

I think Terry Bradshaw has nailed the coaching situation here over the course of our history. Yes we keep coaches for a long time, but we really haven't had a great technician of the game since Chuck Noll. We have had two cheerleaders. Both of with won with good coordinators and neither one did shit without them.

It's hard for Tomlin to not have a superiority complex considering the national sports commentariat has kissed his ass continuously for years.
Entertaining pressers, early success, the love of the Steelers' continuity, and...uh, the thing we don't talk about but definitely plays in.
"Leader of Men" lol.

Having Randy Fichtner and Keith Butler as coordinators is deeply unserious. These two guys now are unserious. Who's next? Tyler Palko? Joey Porter Sr.? Ike Hilliard? The Maryland OC/DC?

When they fire Canada, they are going to hire Sully. He has been an OC before -

2012 - Tampa - 9-7
2013 - Tampa - 4-12
2016 - Giants - 11-6
2017 - Giants - 3-13

Does that move the needle? I wouldn't think so, but we are going to find out.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2023/09/29/future-nfl-head-coach-candidates-daily-cover

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

https://x.com/alex_kozora/status/1709241896642498621?s=46

Hopelessness springs eternal.

But what about the ping pong tables?

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Because neither one was a great X's and O's coach. The difference between the two is that one hired coordinators and the other has not. Both are more motivational types. Both were here way too long in regards to being a pro sports coach.

I think Terry Bradshaw has nailed the coaching situation here over the course of our history. Yes we keep coaches for a long time, but we really haven't had a great technician of the game since Chuck Noll. We have had two cheerleaders. Both of with won with good coordinators and neither one did shit without them.



When they fire Canada, they are going to hire Sully. He has been an OC before -

2012 - Tampa - 9-7
2013 - Tampa - 4-12
2016 - Giants - 11-6
2017 - Giants - 3-13

Does that move the needle? I wouldn't think so, but we are going to find out.

Ya, I don't think removing Canada fixes the issues. The rot goes down to Tomlin with the offense.

Only one way to fix that and apparently there is some law Steelers can't fire their HC, but they went through three HC in a ten year span before Noll so uh...

 

[JTG]

Ya, I don't think removing Canada fixes the issues. The rot goes down to Tomlin with the offense.

Only one way to fix that and apparently there is some law Steelers can't fire their HC, but they went through three HC in a ten year span before Noll so uh...

Like I have said before, I have no issue with Tomlin being the HC, but they need to bring in some fresh blood for the coordinators, and Tomlin needs to get the f*** out of the way. Let these guys run these units and sink or swim.

The real failure this year is this defense. What is happening is totally inexcusable. The offense, there was always potential this may happen, but the defense...no. That's a full on failure and someone needs to take it on the chin.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

What a hilariously bad presser by tomlin

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

Like I have said before, I have no issue with Tomlin being the HC, but they need to bring in some fresh blood for the coordinators, and Tomlin needs to get the f*** out of the way. Let these guys run these units and sink or swim.

The real failure this year is this defense. What is happening is totally inexcusable. The offense, there was always potential this may happen, but the defense...no. That's a full on failure and someone needs to take it on the chin.

He has a massive ego and can't get out of the way, that's the problem and why he keeps hiring his cronies.

 

[JTG]

I was really young for the demise of Chuck Noll, but everything I have heard and read it is eerily similar to this situation with Tomlin. The team was just really mediocre year in and year out. It didn't really have much of an identity, and everything was just generally stale.

They shitcanned Noll and hired a young, up and coming defensive coordinator, and the team was operating on 8 cylinders again.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I was really young for the demise of Chuck Noll, but everything I have heard and read it is eerily similar to this situation with Tomlin. The team was just really mediocre year in and year out. It didn't really have much of an identity, and everything was just generally stale.

They shitcanned Noll and hired a young, up and coming defensive coordinator, and the team was operating on 8 cylinders again.

You can argue the same thing happened in 2007 with Cowher to Tomlin. Cowher said he checked and it appeared things were "stale". Enter a young and hungry Tomlin

This town and its stupid long-term affiliation with coaches because of "reasons"

 

[The Old Master]

It's Tuesday and Canada STILL has a f***ing job.

you think its easy to get a replacement?
edit; let me put that another way, if you were a good oc. would you come to work for coach t.

 

[Zirakzigil]

It's Tuesday and Canada STILL has a f***ing job.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

So I went to search for pieces that had been written about the impact of firing coordinators in-season. My thought was how it impacts staff - likely you're elevating a position coach but maybe not? And whether there is ample time for a new coach to actually implement new schemes, etc. And just in general how successful it's been.

I find an SI article from 2018 that looks like a nice, in-depth look at exactly the kinds of questions I had. It starts with

Bengals DC Teryl Austin is the latest coordinator to get the hook in the midst of a season.

so just FML.

 

[Mr Jiggyfly]

you think its easy to get a replacement?
edit; let me put that another way, if you were a good oc. would you come to work for coach t.

Kaboly said on The Fan yesterday that he heard rumors people don’t want to come work with Canada.

Apparently Klemm and Hilliard left because of him as well.

 

[pistolpete11]

I could be talked into replacing Canada with a legit OC and having Tomlin get out of the f***ing way being 'fine' or even 'good enough'. I just don't think Tomlin would ever do that. Once people have power, they don't typically give it back willingly. Takes a special person to do that.

Still, I'd rather do something than nothing, so I'd settle for someone else besides Canada.

 

[bigdaddyk88]

The tape is out San Francisco and Houston zoned him he had no answer

https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/allsteelers-plus/pittsburgh-steelers-film-room-kenny-pickett-yipps-matt-canada-calls

 

[WickedWrister]

I could be talked into replacing Canada with a legit OC and having Tomlin get out of the f***ing way being 'fine' or even 'good enough'. I just don't think Tomlin would ever do that. Once people have power, they don't typically give it back willingly. Takes a special person to do that.

Still, I'd rather do something than nothing, so I'd settle for someone else besides Canada.

I don't think its unreasonable to think that Canada could be coaching for his job on Sunday. If we get blown out at home with this team failing to score 10 points, you know the yinzers in attendance will lose their minds with the "Fire Canada" chants. Tomlin might not give a shit, but I doubt ownership will tolerate much more. Rooney is a cheap bastard and replacing him in house with Mike Sullivan (lmao) won't cost much if anything.

This move should've been made in the offseason but with the bye week coming up after this game, there's no better time in the schedule to do it. Even if you can't install a new offense in like 10 days, its as much practice time you're going to get in season.

The tape is out San Francisco and Houston zoned him he had no answer

https://www.si.com/nfl/steelers/allsteelers-plus/pittsburgh-steelers-film-room-kenny-pickett-yipps-matt-canada-calls

Thought I recognized those graphics lol

 

[ZorkEnchanter]

Cowher was frustrating, but he was a legit good coach that didn’t perpetually embarrass this org.

He has his bad moments, but Tomlin has had more debacles in the last few years than Cowher had during his entire career.

I have a great amount of respect for Cowher now... he knew he didn't want to Coach anymore and retired.

Tomlin just cashing checks because the Rooney's won't call a spade a spade and fire him. Pretty sad.

It's Tuesday and Canada STILL has a f***ing job.

Dude probably got promoted...

 

[End of Line]

I know Tomlin gets credit for the defense during the 08 Super Bowl win along with 10 run, but if it wasn’t for Dick LeBeau they would have never been what they were.

Imo Tomlin should have been gone after the Jags debacle in the playoffs but then it replicated itself against the Browns in 21.

I’ve heard from people that have interacted with him in person and he is just an insufferable person to be around. Granted that was when he was here in Columbus for Ohio State pro days. If you want to know more DM me.

 

[pistolpete11]

This move should've been made in the offseason but with the bye week coming up after this game, there's no better time in the schedule to do it. Even if you can't install a new offense in like 10 days, its as much practice time you're going to get in season.

Pat McAfee Show talked about hiring Ben as the OC. Could you imagine?

He does know the offense....

 

[Coastal Kev]

Pat McAfee Show talked about hiring Ben as the OC. Could you imagine?

He does know the offense....

MARK WHIPPLE ....... I would seriously look up Kurt Warner as well.