Post-Game Talk: The Oilers like to make things interesting

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

Tell me that isn't true, my gut is so much bigger than my brain, it has to be better at decision making. Right?

This is going on my tombstone.

 

[McSuper]

I am sick with Covid so I didn’t see the game but listen to it and it sound like Broberg played a good game. How was the eyeball test on Broberg ?

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

I am sick with Covid so I didn’t see the game but listen to it and it sound like Broberg played a good game. How was the eyeball test on Broberg ?

Lost his coverage a bit on I think the 3rd goal otherwise subdued but solid. Get well soon!

 

[Fourier]

The hard cap is a great equalizer. Big market franchises can no longer outspend or simply bury bad contracts. Every signing has consequences.

Personally I think there are many factors. The complexity of the NHL rule book continues to grow as the game gets softer with essentially no touch defending that limits effectiveness of d-corps; adds increased subjectivity requiring referee judgments and increased 'game management'; goofy discretions like we saw in the Florida game (high stick contact is cross bar level but shoulder (?) level under some situations. Refereeing has never been more inconsistent than it is today. I think a lot of that falls on rule changes that are making this increasingly a soft, no contact league and increasing use of judgement by officials.

All of which places more pressure on defense corps to defend power plays and defending systems with no contact and more ticky tack penalty calls like tapping an opponent on the wrist. Gone extinct are hard, physical net front battles where only the brave forwards would once dare to go.

Goaltenders are behind those evolved defense corps. But once often the worst skating and least athletic team member, today's goalies are plus sized, elite athletes with light equipment that help maximize movement speed and efficiency. It's an unforgiving position within a game that's never been faster with rules increasing fouls and an evolving play style that makes it harder to stop offenses.

Lots of league decision making that's leading down this path, I think personally.

Combine the hard cap with an ever-increasing desire for UFA's to seek out "desirable" locations to play and a proliferation of NMC/NTC's makes it harder to fill holes. You can only "over-pay" so many times to outcompete sun, lower key lifestyles and lower taxes. It's an excuse but also a reality.

What bothers me most is that Oiler GM's have been almost void of creativity in using the few advantages they have to help in the cause.

The whole goalie thing is also a great problem in building a consistent winner. There are so few sure things and yet it is still expensive to sign a guy who even shows flashes of higher end contributions. It's a position you can't hide your mistakes. You have to eat them or suffer the consequences.

 

[K1984]

Holy f*** people are ragging on Broberg after watching this team's top pair d-men make egregious mistakes directly tied to the limpid Hawks getting back into this game. Nurse can't figure out whether to shit or go blind on the Domi goal then goes on one knee to do nothing. Ceci in a short-handed, game preservation situation decides to skate a puck across his goal, gets stripped and boom Hawks are in a game they have been thoroughly dominated in.

The fast second Hawks goal (a repeating Oilers bad habit) I look at the coach who opted for a low minute Bouchard and 21 year old rookie Broberg to defend. Sure enough, weak forward effort fails to make an easy clear. Puck bounces off Bouchard to a high danger area Hawk drifter and in the net.

I look higher in paygrade to play the blame game. Nurse, Ceci veteran top line defenders got burned with poor decisions at key moments and a rookie coach played into a systemic issue opting for its two youngest defenders at a prospective momentum changing moment of the game.

As soon as I saw RNH out with Borberg and Boucahard I knew we were in trouble. Hawks had their hard working Entwhistle line out, which obviously will create problems for any group of players that like to plod around. Before the puck was dropped I pretty much knew the next shift would be a circus.

It drives me f***ing crazy that Woodcroft can never seem to take a moment to think before he puts his lines out after momentum swing goals against. You don't put f***ing Broberg and Bouchard out there and you don't put any line centered by RNH out there. All three stink in their own end, all three get exposed by hard forechecks and all three are incapable of winning a battle. Why on earth are they on the ice in a key moment?

Just put your best players out, reset for a minute and then finish the game. Woodcroft's personnel decisions in these instances are so poor its almost like its deliberate. Hurt us in the playoffs last year multiple times when he was insistent on putting out the 4th line after goals against, hurt us this year against the Devils and it hurt us last night again.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Combine the hard cap with an ever-increasing desire for UFA's to seek out "desirable" locations to play and a proliferation of NMC/NTC's makes it harder to fill holes. You can only "over-pay" so many times to outcompete sun, lower key lifestyles and lower taxes. It's an excuse but also a reality.

What bothers me most is that Oiler GM's have been almost void of creativity in using the few advantages they have to help in the cause.

The whole goalie thing is also a great problem in building a consistent winner. There are so few sure things and yet it is still expensive to sign a guy who even shows flashes of higher end contributions. It's a position you can't hide your mistakes. You have to eat them or suffer the consequences.

Certain markets definitely have advantages that make it easier for them to maneuver while other markets are treated like a leper colony. We see it time and time again where desirable markets have their pick of the free agent litter and other teams have to severely overpay just to be in the conversation, which often times ends up backfiring and setting these teams back even more.

Even when teams like the Rangers step in it with a bad signing they always seem to be able to slip out of it by pawning these mistakes off on other teams who are desperate and have to take risks because their constantly missing out on players in ufa or because of trade protections.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Certain markets definitely have advantages that make it easier for them to maneuver while other markets are treated like a leper colony. We see it time and time again where desirable markets have their pick of the free agent litter and other teams have to severely overpay just to be in the conversation, which often times ends up backfiring and setting these teams back even more.

Even when teams like the Rangers step in it with a bad signing they always seem to be able to slip out of it by pawning these mistakes off on other teams who are desperate and have to take risks because their constantly missing out on players in ufa or because of trade protections.

Of course if we drafted properly we wouldn't have to consistently overspend on the UFA market.

 

[K1984]

Certain markets definitely have advantages that make it easier for them to maneuver while other markets are treated like a leper colony. We see it time and time again where desirable markets have their pick of the free agent litter and other teams have to severely overpay just to be in the conversation, which often times ends up backfiring and setting these teams back even more.

Even when teams like the Rangers step in it with a bad signing they always seem to be able to slip out of it by pawning these mistakes off on other teams who are desperate and have to take risks because their constantly missing out on players in ufa or because of trade protections.

Been saying for years that NMC's need to be all teams or no teams. Players shouldn't have the ability to only waive for specific teams. Its a massive competitive disadvantage for any team that isn't the Rangers, Lightning, Panthers, Golden Knights, etc. These teams can just pick off quality players for little cost at will when teams in less desirable cities or tax destinations can't.

 

[Soundwave]

Been saying for years that NMC's need to be all teams or no teams. Players shouldn't have the ability to only waive for specific teams. Its a massive competitive disadvantage for any team that isn't the Rangers, Lightning, Panthers, Golden Knights, etc. These teams can just pick off quality players for little cost at will when teams in less desirable cities or tax destinations can't.

There's no way the NHLPA would go for that ever. What happens also in a situation where like the player also wants a change of scenery but has a NMC, so in that case they're forced to stay on the team?

A good pro tip for teams in less desirable hockey markets -- hire a smart GM. That solves about 99 of your 100 problems right there. Canadian teams tend to hire stupid or over the hill people.

 

[K1984]

There's no way the NHLPA would go for that ever. What happens also in a situation where like the player also wants a change of scenery but has a NMC, so in that case they're forced to stay on the team?

A good pro tip for teams in less desirable hockey markets -- hire a smart GM. That solves about 99 of your 100 problems right there. Canadian teams tend to hire stupid or over the hill people.

Then they waive to go to any of the 31 other teams. It's the "I'll only accept a trade to Vegas" BS that needs to go away.

 

[5 Mins 4 Ftg]

A NMC is all teams, player cannot be moved period (without his permission). NTC (No Trade Clause) are team specific.

 

[Soundwave]

Can we stop with the stupid penalties too? Like at some point it's not just on the reffing. This team has a habit of players taking penalties at the most brain dead times on top of also give the other team an auto PP to start every game.

Like f***ing just stop. Stop.

That and having odd-man rushes and some times even breakaways and ending up with no shot on net is just mind boggling. Draisaitl did it again last night, breakaway and decides for whatever reason to pass backwards instead of shoot. RNH the game prior, 3 on 1, decides to make a dumb, weak flip pass instead of take a shot or pass to the wide open trailer.

 

[joestevens29]

Been saying for years that NMC's need to be all teams or no teams. Players shouldn't have the ability to only waive for specific teams. Its a massive competitive disadvantage for any team that isn't the Rangers, Lightning, Panthers, Golden Knights, etc. These teams can just pick off quality players for little cost at will when teams in less desirable cities or tax destinations can't.

I'm all for when a team wants to trade a guy that the player choose where he wants to go, but when the guy wants out that NMC should be void.

There's no way the NHLPA would go for that ever. What happens also in a situation where like the player also wants a change of scenery but has a NMC, so in that case they're forced to stay on the team?

A good pro tip for teams in less desirable hockey markets -- hire a smart GM. That solves about 99 of your 100 problems right there. Canadian teams tend to hire stupid or over the hill people.

Honestly I wish more teams would keep said player on their team when they demand a trade.

 

[Oilers in NS]

As others suggested, beating Chicago in that fashion doesn't inspire confidence. But, I do agree with you about Domi and the idea he'd look good on our team.

I'll be an internal optimist and say we are running new players constantly. Foegele is a big loss I will say. I've like his game. Kane is a huge loss.
In saying that, I have liked how Puju and Janmark have stepped up

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Combine the hard cap with an ever-increasing desire for UFA's to seek out "desirable" locations to play and a proliferation of NMC/NTC's makes it harder to fill holes. You can only "over-pay" so many times to outcompete sun, lower key lifestyles and lower taxes. It's an excuse but also a reality.

What bothers me most is that Oiler GM's have been almost void of creativity in using the few advantages they have to help in the cause.

The whole goalie thing is also a great problem in building a consistent winner. There are so few sure things and yet it is still expensive to sign a guy who even shows flashes of higher end contributions. It's a position you can't hide your mistakes. You have to eat them or suffer the consequences.

Agree, the current generation of player is not content to 'just be there' in the Show but rather to choose their landing spot and increasingly in anonymous big U.S. markets, favourable weather and tax environments. This skews against Canadian clubs especially. Draft and Develop absolutely essential to build successful programs.

As well, I agree about Oiler management. There is little creativity shown beyond opening up the chequebook and at that still having to overpay (at least in term length, if not salary). Their pro scouting haven't unearthed value finds to support their roster composition. While I think Holland has been largely mediocre, the Chiarelli strip mining left him having to walk and chew gum at the same time. Navigate a very thin Cap threshold NHL roster missing quality support in all positions and necessity to build up a weak prospect pool to help onboard cheap entry level talent with critical salary drag as this team aspired to become a competitive playoff team.

I don't buy the goaltending issue. High pedigree goaltenders drafted in the first round are increasingly delivering on the perceived draft risk. Andrei Vasilevskiy was really the first wave of guys like Oettinger (an NHL starter at age 22); Spencer Knight; and bubbling up age 20 year old AHL prospects like Waldstadt, Askarov, Cossa. Not a big surprise to see arguable the best NHL GM Steve Yzerman prioritize goaltending in the current growth phase of their rebuild with signing Husso and investing in its long-term moving up in round 1 to grab Cossa. Failing to do so, the other options are to spend volume draft collateral hoping to find a future NHL goaltender or the Oilers way of having to overspend in the free agent market.

Oilers are at a mature phase of organizational development on the back of two super elites. Unfortunately it has had substantive holes to fill around the talent group. Not aided by pedestrian management with multiple groups steering the ship to a historic level of mediocrity.

 

[McJadeddog]

Can we stop with the stupid penalties too? Like at some point it's not just on the reffing. This team has a habit of players taking penalties at the most brain dead times on top of also give the other team an auto PP to start every game.

Like f***ing just stop. Stop.

That and having odd-man rushes and some times even breakaways and ending up with no shot on net is just mind boggling. Draisaitl did it again last night, breakaway and decides for whatever reason to pass backwards instead of shoot. RNH the game prior, 3 on 1, decides to make a dumb, weak flip pass instead of take a shot or pass to the wide open trailer.

I have RNH in a fantasy league where you get points for PP mins, so last night was good for me

Although, yes, I agree.

 

[SwedishFire]

Thinking about it some more, I actually think a large part of it is simply due to the cap being too restrictive.

Take a look across the league at what teams are being forced to dress on second and third pairing defense these days. It’s not pretty.

I do agree with him on the state of goaltending across the league though. It’s the most mediocre goaltending we’ve seen in probably the last 30 years. There are maybe 4-5 elite starters in the entire league. Then an entire “great” tier is skipped (empty) and it goes straight to “inconsistent.”

Well, its obvious.
If the defense is restricted in rules, less liberties raken by defence, its not as easy to play D now. The D today may even be better than in the 90s-00s.

Tp

It's a poorly constructed blue line for a team in mature, deep playoff phase of its development. Uni-dimensional finesse style is missing solid veteran meat eater goal suppression types. Onboarding young defensemen who must grow through deep water learning through experience on a team expecting to compete for deep playoff runs is sub-optimal - we watch Bouchard's game vary often quite wildly add very green bananas Broberg and Niemelainen too is something you don't see on legitimate Cup contenders who feature veteran bluelines as the backbone to their teams.

Oil need an age 25 Broberg with several years of game reps against apex NHL competition not the age 21 guy with under 30 NHL games played. The defense is poorly constructed and needs more top pairings veteran defenders like they lost in Larsson and Klefbom and have not been able to replace. Murray is an okay 7th defenseman but not good enough or stout enough in his defending to deliver the consistent quality trusted minutes this team needs to be a definitive Cup contender.

Loss of Klefbom was fatal. I shouldnt, but imagine if he wasnt injury prone today. And I might suspect Holland was counting on Kieth being here one more season, on some weird way, probably at the cost of Puljujärvi - and might Järnmark..?


Nurse -Ceci
Klefbom(Kieth in hollands masterplan) -Bouchard
Kulak - Barrie

I might think oilers still should rethink of keeping the redundance of Bouchard and Barrie. Who is more impactful on a playoff run?
They need a steady defender.
I suspect Broberg isnt ready, and in a Win NOW! Mode that is not what this team needs. Bouchard is that hot rookie - still. That type of great offense - suspect defense player shouldnt be 2 on a team. Let alone added a rookie. That is T W O players to much of a limited skilset.

Now Barrie has played great. But Bouchard is younger and the future. Its close to impossible to choose. But in mind that bouchard needs a raise, maybe trade him and Yamamoto in a package deal for a great master D.

2nd pair becomes Broberg - Hampus Lindholm esque.

I think that would work.

Rw or a 3C hunt is OK, but I might think forwards is OK, when they can score some, having järnmark bonding with Nuge as a top 6 option. McLeod Fogele, Pulju, Kostin, Holloway -all being 3rd liner quality. As a full team that is enough to cover a great bottom 6, Malone rounding out as a physic presence.

It gives options anyway. Right now there are kane, yam, Kostin, McLeod injured. And oilers still scores. That defense have no injuries. But cant press out scoring chances..

It is STILL the D that needs to be fully addressed.

So, who to trade of the "Three Bee" -Broberg, Bouchard, Barrie?

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

As soon as I saw RNH out with Borberg and Boucahard I knew we were in trouble. Hawks had their hard working Entwhistle line out, which obviously will create problems for any group of players that like to plod around. Before the puck was dropped I pretty much knew the next shift would be a circus.

It drives me f***ing crazy that Woodcroft can never seem to take a moment to think before he puts his lines out after momentum swing goals against. You don't put f***ing Broberg and Bouchard out there and you don't put any line centered by RNH out there. All three stink in their own end, all three get exposed by hard forechecks and all three are incapable of winning a battle. Why on earth are they on the ice in a key moment?

Just put your best players out, reset for a minute and then finish the game. Woodcroft's personnel decisions in these instances are so poor its almost like its deliberate. Hurt us in the playoffs last year multiple times when he was insistent on putting out the 4th line after goals against, hurt us this year against the Devils and it hurt us last night again.

Ya, I place that on the Coach versus scapegoating a 21 year old defenseman which some seem inclined to do. It was an unfortunate re-direction off of Bouchard onto the stick of a high danger area Hawk who converts on the fortuitous opportunity. But veteran forwards Nugent Hopkins and Puljujarvi weak board play failed to get it out. And veteran defensive forward Janmark was late in his coverage despite being in a game situation that called for protecting a lead.

 

[K1984]

Ya, I place that on the Coach versus scapegoating a 21 year old defenseman which some seem inclined to do. It was an unfortunate re-direction off of Bouchard onto the stick of a high danger area Hawk who converts on the fortuitous opportunity. But veteran forwards Nugent Hopkins and Puljujarvi weak board play failed to get it out. And veteran defensive forward Janmark was late in his coverage despite being in a game situation that called for protecting a lead.

You could sense a deer in the headlights feel by every Oiler on the ice the moment they got it over our blue line. I knew we were f***ed.

 

[Fourier]

Of course if we drafted properly we wouldn't have to consistently overspend on the UFA market.

In reality, the Oilers drafting has not been nearly the issue it is made out to be. It is always possible to look back in hindsight but this is true for almost every team.

You here about teams that seem to consistently hit on late picks. But this tends to not really be reality. Or they hit on a 4th rounder but miss bigtime on their first.

Where the Oilers have had issues I think is in their pro scouting.

 

[joestevens29]

In reality, the Oilers drafting has not been nearly the issue it is made out to be. It is always possible to look back in hindsight but this is true for almost every team.

You here about teams that seem to consistently hit on late picks. But this tends to not really be reality. Or they hit on a 4th rounder but miss bigtime on their first.

Where the Oilers have had issues I think is in their pro scouting.

I honestly don't know where we exactly are over spending all that much in the UFA market as of late.

Sure Campbell is looking bad right now, but other than that most guys are playing pretty well given their contracts. Even Kulak, how much is he really overpaid right now?

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Well, its obvious.
If the defense is restricted in rules, less liberties raken by defence, its not as easy to play D now. The D today may even be better than in the 90s-00s.

Tp

Loss of Klefbom was fatal. I shouldnt, but imagine if he wasnt injury prone today. And I might suspect Holland was counting on Kieth being here one more season, on some weird way, probably at the cost of Puljujärvi - and might Järnmark..?


Nurse -Ceci
Klefbom(Kieth in hollands masterplan) -Bouchard
Kulak - Barrie

I might think oilers still should rethink of keeping the redundance of Bouchard and Barrie. Who is more impactful on a playoff run?
They need a steady defender.
I suspect Broberg isnt ready, and in a Win NOW! Mode that is not what this team needs. Bouchard is that hot rookie - still. That type of great offense - suspect defense player shouldnt be 2 on a team. Let alone added a rookie. That is T W O players to much of a limited skilset.

Now Barrie has played great. But Bouchard is younger and the future. Its close to impossible to choose. But in mind that bouchard needs a raise, maybe trade him and Yamamoto in a package deal for a great master D.

2nd pair becomes Broberg - Hampus Lindholm esque.

I think that would work.

Rw or a 3C hunt is OK, but I might think forwards is OK, when they can score some, having järnmark bonding with Nuge as a top 6 option. McLeod Fogele, Pulju, Kostin, Holloway -all being 3rd liner quality. As a full team that is enough to cover a great bottom 6, Malone rounding out as a physic presence.

It gives options anyway. Right now there are kane, yam, Kostin, McLeod injured. And oilers still scores. That defense have no injuries. But cant press out scoring chances..

It is STILL the D that needs to be fully addressed.

So, who to trade of the "Three Bee" -Broberg, Bouchard, Barrie?

I think the loss of Larsson hurt this team more. Hard veteran defender and leader. We see the value he has on a veteran d-corp backbone on a young Kraken franchise. This team navigated around the Klefbom LTIR but losing both he and Larsson were killer. This team with a troika of Nurse, Keith and Larsson would have given quality veteran leadership and defending styles that you can build around. Alas, not to be however.

Optimal world I think this team needs a 1D to complement Nurse (an unlikely get) and a veteran quality physical goal suppression type in second pair defense (which is do-able with a price to be paid). There's duplication between Barrie and Bouchard. Likely Barrie but he would have to be moved in a hockey deal, not given away as a quality veteran d lost as a cap dump.

This team needs two quality veteran defenders to be anywhere near adequate for a Cup chasing window, imo.

 

[Captain Controversy]

I have RNH in a fantasy league where you get points for PP mins, so last night was good for me

Although, yes, I agree.

Me too haha

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

You could sense a deer in the headlights feel by every Oiler on the ice the moment they got it over our blue line. I knew we were f***ed.

I know time-outs are 'precious gold.' But with a two goal lead and a team burning up ice-time for its elites it seemed like a reasonable time for Woody to settle and re-set this team via time out. Ultimately it was the coach who set the line that got burned with soft board play but a fortuitous re-direction onto a Hawks stick in prime ice to make good on it.

EDIT: Quick follow up goals in key situations has been a chronic issue for this team. Further reason for the coaching staff to recognize the moment and use their means to re-set and regroup.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

In reality, the Oilers drafting has not been nearly the issue it is made out to be. It is always possible to look back in hindsight but this is true for almost every team.

You here about teams that seem to consistently hit on late picks. But this tends to not really be reality. Or they hit on a 4th rounder but miss bigtime on their first.

Where the Oilers have had issues I think is in their pro scouting.

I mean of all the picks we've made since McDavid was drafted McLeod is the leading goal scorer over JP, Yamamoto, and Bouchard this year. Skinner is probably the best goalie we've drafted since Fuhr, if only easily the second best and he still seems to have some yips.

Make no mistake, this team still very much struggles at the draft, especially outside the top ten.