Post-Game Talk: The offensive black hole gets bigger

[Flowah]

So is overreacting to short term trends.

Our scoring hasn't been better than average in a while now. It's a problem that's been noted and something we'd hoped Blashill might be able to remedy but has yet to happen. This isn't overreaction. This is proper identification of a problem. We don't score enough.

 

[TheOtherOne]

We don't score enough to do what? To win? Apparently we do, because we have. To look good? I guess.

 

[The Zermanator]

NHL teams have a ridiculously bad home record coming off long road trips. It has been talked about for years, really getting a point after that long of a trip isn't the worst thing in the world.

So is overreacting to short term trends.

This has been a trend dating back long before yesterday's game, before Blashill even. It is decidedly not a short term trend.

 

[Flowah]

We don't score enough to do what? To win? Apparently we do, because we have. To look good? I guess.

To be contenders.

And to cover up for our goaltending when it inevitably falls back to earth. Mrazek is posting insane numbers right now. That can't last long term.

 

[The Zermanator]

To be contenders.

And to cover up for our goaltending when it inevitably falls back to earth. Mrazek is posting insane numbers right now. That can't last long term.

Yep. I don't know why it's so controversial to some to suggest that a team that is not scoring much, with a shoddy defense, and generally great goaltending is a recipe for disaster.

Look at Montreal, they were Cup favourites to start the year. Subtract Price and all their deficiencies are exposed for what they are.

 

[Flowah]

Yep. I don't know why it's so controversial to some to suggest that a team that is not scoring much, with a shoddy defense, and generally great goaltending is a recipe for disaster.

Look at Montreal, they were Cup favourites to start the year. Subtract Price and all their deficiencies are exposed for what they are.

Plus goalies go through hot and cold streaks just like any other player. We should know this. Howard has oscillated from top10 goalie to below average so often. Relying on *one* player is a recipe for disaster.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

To be contenders.

And to cover up for our goaltending when it inevitably falls back to earth. Mrazek is posting insane numbers right now. That can't last long term.

Or he's just that good. I'm pretty sure we're gonna allow the same goals we have been allowing for the whole season. Once mrazek play cools down the wings will play better and mrazek will still have vezina stats

 

[BeersHockey]

Seriously though about Nyqvist - did he lose his speed or something? He used it so effectively the past two years, now he just coasts. I like the dude a bunch, but he needs to push forward and make space. He's not doing that much this year.

 

[Flowah]

Or he's just that good. I'm pretty sure we're gonna allow the same goals we have been allowing for the whole season. Once mrazek play cools down the wings will play better and mrazek will still have vezina stats

In the past 5 games Mrazek has allowed 5 goals in regulation. There is no way on god's green earth he remains at a 1GAA. I think he's gonna be elite but no goalie is that good.

 

[Bench]

Seriously though about Nyqvist - did he lose his speed or something? He used it so effectively the past two years, now he just coasts. I like the dude a bunch, but he needs to push forward and make space. He's not doing that much this year.

Yeah, I don't think anybody expected "lucky to hit 50 points" to be the storyline for Nyquist this season. It's a disappointment by most measures.

Of course, scoring for the Wings is way, way down. The Wings don't have a guy in the top 60 in points. So very apt post-game thread title. Offense is a big problem with this team currently. Sitting in the bottom 10 (21st) in goals per game.

 

[Dotter]

Seriously though about Nyqvist - did he lose his speed or something? He used it so effectively the past two years, now he just coasts. I like the dude a bunch, but he needs to push forward and make space. He's not doing that much this year.

I don't know if he lost his speed, but he certainly isn't as dynamic as he was in years past. He seems soft and easily rattled.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

In the past 5 games Mrazek has allowed 5 goals in regulation. There is no way on god's green earth he remains at a 1GAA. I think he's gonna be elite but no goalie is that good.

Or maybe he is just that good. Goat

But seriously the worst he's gonna alllow is like 2 or 3 and still put up vezina numbers

All Detroit needs to do is score 2-3 goals. Not that hard right?

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Top three most used lines that featured Nyquist last season

24.2% EV ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK
10.33% EV NYQUIST,GUSTAV - SHEAHAN,RILEY - TATAR,TOMAS
10.27% EV FRANZEN,JOHAN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK

Top three most used lines that featured Nyquist this season

31.76% EV NYQUIST,GUSTAV - SHEAHAN,RILEY - TATAR,TOMAS
22.78% EV ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK
4.15% PP ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - TATAR,TOMAS - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK

Top five most productive lines that featured Nyquist last season:

EV ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK 10 18.52%
PP ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - DATSYUK,PAVEL - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK 5 9.26%
PP ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - PULKKINEN,TEEMU - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK 4 7.41%
PP ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - FRANZEN,JOHAN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK 4 7.41%
EV NYQUIST,GUSTAV - SHEAHAN,RILEY - TATAR,TOMAS 4 7.41%

Top five most productive lines that featured Nyquist this season.

EV NYQUIST,GUSTAV - SHEAHAN,RILEY - TATAR,TOMAS 5 20%
PP ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - LARKIN,DYLAN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK 3 12%
EV ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK 3 12%
EV NYQUIST,GUSTAV - TATAR,TOMAS 2 8%
PP ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - DATSYUK,PAVEL - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK 2 8%

Total points are in bold

So is it really surprising that Nyquist's production has suffered so much when he went from Zetterberg being his center most of the time during ES, to Riley Sheahan being his center for most of the time during ES?

 

[Bench]

I guess is it really surprising that Nyquist's production has suffered so much when he went from Zetterberg being his center most of the time during ES, to Riley Sheahan being his center for most of the time during ES?

It supports your argument (and mine) that Zetterberg remains the top player with Datsyuk. Which isn't a great sign as they slow down here. They are both still useful players, tremendously so, but the talent around them isn't living up to expectations at this point.

We've spent a lot of time debating the blueline, but I'm not convinced this roster doesn't need help at the top 6, too. It may not be as pressing, but it's going to become more pronounced if the upcoming AHL guns like Mantha don't slot in seamlessly.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

It supports your argument (and mine) that Zetterberg remains the top player with Datsyuk. Which isn't a great sign as they slow down here. They are both still useful players, tremendously so, but the talent around them isn't living up to expectations at this point.

We've spent a lot of time debating the blueline, but I'm not convinced this roster doesn't need help at the top 6, too. It may not be as pressing, but it's going to become more pronounced if the upcoming AHL guns like Mantha don't slot in seamlessly.

I agree that the forwards are an issue, but i think you could easily mitigate it if your defenseman were more talented.

So i would hope that focusing on improving the blue line would kill two birds with one stone.

Although one would think that adding Mike Green would do just that. Yeah Kronwall's decline needs to be factored in too, but Green's point totals are just as bad, so maybe the forwards just aren't good enough to take advantage of Green's talent, but that's just a complete shot in the dark since it's only been 46 games with a new coach.

 

[Shaman464]

So is it really surprising that Nyquist's production has suffered so much when he went from Zetterberg being his center most of the time during ES, to Riley Sheahan being his center for most of the time during ES?

The problem is Nyquist is being played and paid like a guy who needs to be a creative, offensive threat, not a hanger on.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

The problem is Nyquist is being played and paid like a guy who needs to be a creative, offensive threat, not a hanger on.

Ehhh i'm not sure i totally agree with that. 4.75 million to put up 50-55 points seems pretty reasonable. Also with the life of contract taking place entirely in his 20's makes it more valuable. I agree that Nyquist isn't going to drive the play on most nights, but his offensive instincts are legitimately good.

I don't think it's fair to criticize him for not being on pace for 50-55 points when his primary center is Riley Sheahan. It's too bad too, really expected more from Sheahan this season. Not 50 points, but not less than what he put up last year.

 

[Run the Jewels]

In the past 5 games Mrazek has allowed 5 goals in regulation. There is no way on god's green earth he remains at a 1GAA. I think he's gonna be elite but no goalie is that good.

Yep, Mrazek is the only reason we aren't a lottery team. I saw a stat during the last game that Datsyuk had a hand in each of our last 6 goals. It's pretty obvious this team is very deeply flawed and will only go as far as Mrazek can carry them. The hope that Blashill could somehow make this team into a high scoring unit is laughably wrong.

 

[TheMule93]

Do you guys think if we had dats/Z from 06-09 playing on our current team that we would be contenders? Or would our defense still hold is back? I'm guessing it would.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Do you guys think if we had dats/Z from 06-09 playing on our current team that we would be contenders? Or would our defense still hold is back? I'm guessing it would.

Our defence from that period was insanely good. Having said that, so were Pav and Z. When you watch highlights from that time period, Z + Pav really stand out flying around all over the ice - Zetterberg particularly. So yeah, prime Pav + Z would probably push us from lower playoff seed to division champion. D would still be underwhelming though so the board would have something to complain

 

[aar000n]

remember when dats would get cleary and abby as line mates and we wndered what dats did to babcock.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Do you guys think if we had dats/Z from 06-09 playing on our current team that we would be contenders? Or would our defense still hold is back? I'm guessing it would.

Probably yeah. I mean if we have those guys in the prime we beat Tampa. We beat Chicago in 2013 most def. and la. Probably win the cup.

Don't know if we win the cup. Smith turns into a top 4 come playoff time somehow and then we think he turns a corner

 

[ap3x]

Top three most used lines that featured Nyquist last season

24.2% EV ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK
10.33% EV NYQUIST,GUSTAV - SHEAHAN,RILEY - TATAR,TOMAS
10.27% EV FRANZEN,JOHAN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK

Top three most used lines that featured Nyquist this season

31.76% EV NYQUIST,GUSTAV - SHEAHAN,RILEY - TATAR,TOMAS
22.78% EV ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK
4.15% PP ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - TATAR,TOMAS - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK

Top five most productive lines that featured Nyquist last season:

EV ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK 10 18.52%
PP ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - DATSYUK,PAVEL - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK 5 9.26%
PP ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - PULKKINEN,TEEMU - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK 4 7.41%
PP ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - FRANZEN,JOHAN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK 4 7.41%
EV NYQUIST,GUSTAV - SHEAHAN,RILEY - TATAR,TOMAS 4 7.41%

Top five most productive lines that featured Nyquist this season.

EV NYQUIST,GUSTAV - SHEAHAN,RILEY - TATAR,TOMAS 5 20%
PP ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - LARKIN,DYLAN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK 3 12%
EV ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK 3 12%
EV NYQUIST,GUSTAV - TATAR,TOMAS 2 8%
PP ABDELKADER,JUSTIN - DATSYUK,PAVEL - NYQUIST,GUSTAV - ZETTERBERG,HENRIK 2 8%

Total points are in bold

So is it really surprising that Nyquist's production has suffered so much when he went from Zetterberg being his center most of the time during ES, to Riley Sheahan being his center for most of the time during ES?

Thanks for putting that together. Underlining the point that I made before.

 

[InjuredChoker]

wings are tied for 7th last in 5on5 goals for in the past 4 seasons (inc. this one).

little better in all situation (not shootout) goals, 19th in the league.

scoring has been an issue since lidström retired.

 

[Henkka]

remember when dats would get cleary and abby as line mates and we wndered what dats did to babcock.

It's still a nice idea, you like it or not. If you have 7 good players...

...you build two lines of those 2nd to 7th best guys and build one line from your best player and two pylons.

That creates depth. Your ultimate best player can create scoring chances by himself and carries those pylons with him. If they are defensive pylons and the ultimate best player is a Selke-Trophy center, ever better. You can use it as a shut-down line, against opposite team best line and that gives easier competition for other lines.

The idea will never get old and that's why Babcock used it. There's nothing wrong on the plan. Fans just won't like it. Coaches who like results, they like.