The Norris has turned into a PR joke

[ClydeLee]

Both his wins just skirted out over Weber or Suter? Were a clear case there is no bias.

I don't get the mystery with 2016 either, Bergeron and Karlsson clearly when looking at the ballots had 33% of voters not put them on the lists. Now I thought there was a heavily discussed media focus that year about voting for a trophy winner who missed the playoffs. I guess the idea dwindled though this year by some voters

 

[BruinsBtn]

Both his wins just skirted out over Weber or Suter? Were a clear case there is no bias.

I don't get the mystery with 2016 either, Bergeron and Karlsson clearly when looking at the ballots had 33% of voters not put them on the lists. Now I thought there was a heavily discussed media focus that year about voting for a trophy winner who missed the playoffs. I guess the idea dwindled though this year by some voters

Do you have a problem with 2013-14 when Karlsson won it despite missing the playoffs? Or just Burns this year?

 

[aufheben]

Doughty isn't Karlsson's "rival" anymore, it's Crosby. At least to me.

 

[Sens Rule]

Do you have a problem with 2013-14 when Karlsson won it despite missing the playoffs? Or just Burns this year?

Karlsson made the playoffs both times he won the Norris.

 

[ClydeLee]

Do you have a problem with 2013-14 when Karlsson won it despite missing the playoffs? Or just Burns this year?

Am I a voter or someone like McKenzie who expressly talked about gearing that from people when he was asking. Also how there was talk of McDavid and if his limited games did or didn't qualify for some voters and they brought up nobody won a main award like that with under 60 games played since Bobby Orr's first Norris.

I don't get the, do I have a problem.. what's that supposed to mean? I'm stating what the results would show.

But I think only a bit more like 5% more people put Bergeron in their top 2 this year than last but the lack of a clear #1 to vote for many did with Kopitar last year, Kesler and Kuivo split it around under him.

 

[Maffew]

Frankly, the only joke here is that Karlsson is "overwhelmingly" the best defenseman in the league. There's a tier that he's in that several other defensemen are in. If you need a list, you have the blinders on.

 

[Kcoyote3]

Karlsson is a better defenseman than Burns. Burns had a better season. The end. Huzzah!

 

[KCC]

As a Canadian, I am inclined to agree. Karlsson simply tilts the ice in his team's favour. He's the reason Ottawa can even make the playoffs. The narrative about him being a fourth forward should have died 2-3 seasons ago. Stats are already showing he's elite defensively. He simply tilts the ice. Doughty is great defensively, not not anywhere near Karlsson's level overall.

Noppee. Burns, Doughty etc are much better defensively.

 

[Novak Djokovic]

People who say Karlsson is bad defensively...my god. Are you ****ing kidding me? He was actively paired against Crosby as much as possible, and did a fantastic job even strength. Heck, the GWG in Game 7 happened as Crosby line got on before Ottawa could get their third D pair out.

 

[Rhaegar Targaryen]

At the end of the day, the voters likely don't have enough time to watch enough of all the top defensemen in the game each year to make the best assessment. I'm sure a lot Vote with the hype - with Doughty last year and Burns this year.

 

[me2]

Doughty isn't Karlsson's "rival" anymore, it's Crosby. At least to me.

And Crosby is a timelord since he has two Harts.

 

[Clark Kellogg]

Maybe you just need to accept the fact that Karlsson is just average defensively and doesn't deserve a Norris every year? He is basically Gardiner with 2x as many points.

When I first read this, I thought, Wow that is cold, but In reality your statement is pretty close to the truth.

 

[Alwalys]

As a person who drafted Burns in a keeper league a decade ago I can assure you I really think he is a special player. I am suprised it took him as long as it did to be dominant. I really think he deserved the Norris as much as Karlsson did this year he had a phenomenal season. What people have issues with is how the metric changed from one season to the next for evaluating a Norris level d man.

Like I said im a big fan and I watch alot of Burns he does not control the pace of a game like Karlsson. I think you should watch some more sens games Karlsson does the most with the least of any D man. I thought it was funny how in the playoffs everyone was raving about him and honestly his skating wasnt even 75% which is his best attribute. He did gut it out and in my opinion elevated his level of play in other ways but he honestly can be better. It just proved to me that most people dont really watch him.

Burns just led the LEAGUE in shots. That's usually Ovechkin's spot, does he affect the game?

A d-man hasn't led the league in shooting for almost 2 decades. The other d-men that have done that are named Borque and Orr.

Burns' last 2 seasons were the 8th and 24th shooting seasons for d-men of all time.

 

[Bronson]

I said years ago that only trophies like The Art Ross and The Rocket are of any importance because the criteria for winning them are completely objective.

 

[end]

The idea that Canadian media is more biased towards Canadians playing in California than Europeans playing in Canada is ridiculous. Stars who play for a Canadian team never get promoted more.

 

[Sens Rule]

Frankly, the only joke here is that Karlsson is "overwhelmingly" the best defenseman in the league. There's a tier that he's in that several other defensemen are in. If you need a list, you have the blinders on.

Karlsson right now is on a tier similar to Bourque from 82-95. He is the defacto best defenceman in the NHL. Other defencemen can still win a Norris but they need to do something really special to do so. Like Coffey, Langway, Leetch or Chelios did when Bourque was generally considered the best overall defenceman.

Right now Karlsson gets discussed as one of the top few players in the world. With McDavid and Crosby. The fact he was runner up for the Norris the last two years doesn't bother me very much as a Sens fan. After the playoffs Karlsson is finally getting the recognition he deserves.

I thought Doughty was a poor choice when Karlsson led the NHL in assists but whatever. Burns had a remarkable season and him winning the Norris is fine to me. He really did have an all-time memorable season.

Barring injuries I expect Karlsson to be a first or second team all-star and Norris finalist for the next decade. He will win 3/4/5 more Norris trophies and be remembered as this eras "Bourque, Potvin, Lidstrom, Harvey" and be regarded as the defacto top defenceman for a dozen years. Several 2nd place finishes won't matter to his legacy and will add to it.

Karlsson 2 wins 2 second place
Potvin 3 wins 2 second 1 third
Bourque 5 wins 6 second 4 third
Lidstrom 7 wins 3 second 1 third

Karlsson will likely have 8-10 top 3 Norris finishes by the time he retires, if not more.

Pretty much all the doubters about Karlsson have given up on that train of thought. He is unique and now has a defensive resume and a playoff resume and a best on best resume that shows he is the best defenceman in the world... and with that hindsight has likely been the best D in the world since 2011/12.

The people who said he was a 4th forward or an offenceman or soft or too small have seen all those criticisms become just silliness.

 

[nmbr_24]

Karlsson's first Norris was a joke. Did you complain then?

I agree, I didn't think he deserved that either.

 

[Sens Rule]

Noppee. Burns, Doughty etc are much better defensively.

Burns is absolutely not better defensively than Karlsson.