The Norris has turned into a PR joke

[Chimpradamus]

Now there are alot of trophies handed out to the publicity and the excitement of ignorant voters who have no clue what they're voting for, but in the last years, the Norris trophy has turned into the biggest joke of them all.

For all people who have seen what Karlsson has done on the ice, night after night, it's an absolute travesty that he has been robbed of the trophy not only once, but two times in a row.

At first, it was "he's due" Doughty. Don't get me wrong, he's a world class defenseman, but, he's not Karlsson. There is no way he's a better defenseman than Karlsson. Karlsson played worse minutes on a way, way worse team, where the supposed two-way defenseman had an easier time than the offensive defenseman. Enough said about that, Doughty's Norris was a scam. Then there's the even bigger travesty, that is Burns and his season, which supposedly cemented his Norris even before half a season was done. It was all about publicity and it was all about national recognition.

If Erik Karlsson was Canadian, he would've received 5/6 last Norris trophies and he would've been heralded as the next Bobby Orr. Now he's Swedish and the supposed narrative, still among some "serious" publicitors today is, "he's a 4th forward". Yet when Burns plays defense in offensively sheltered minutes on the 2nd pairing, there is not a single word mentioned about being a 4th forward in the media, even though he has marked the distinctions for the definition of a 4th forward in a way Karlsson never has. How so? Propaganda.

So I say and claim, trophies are a goddamn joke. Doughty was a joke and Burns was a goddamn joke. Now they are excellent defensemen, but compared to what Karlsson does and how he affects his team, it's a goddamn joke. I know there are tons of voters for the Norris who feel really embarrassed now, after what Karlsson did in the playoffs. The Ottawa fans and his teammates only said: "What are you raving about, this is what he does every game?" But for the narrative? It's ****ing laughable when a bunch of ignorant voters suddenly, actually watch a bunch of games of the players they're voting for and they suddenly change their mind.

Now how about that? The NHL awards are a joke and the Norris is a symbol of that.

Click to read more...

 

[Sting]

The issue has been beaten to death around here.

The awards mean very little these days. It's part of the reason why you can't compare players across generations...people love to bring up awards won when they compare, but that doesn't work very well with the voting system that is in place.

At the end of the day, the hockey world overwhelmingly considers Erik Karlsson #1. That's enough for me.

 

[AUAIOMRN]

Everyone should do themselves a favour and stop caring about voted-on awards. They don't mean anything.

 

[Apotheosis]

As a Canadian, I am inclined to agree. Karlsson simply tilts the ice in his team's favour. He's the reason Ottawa can even make the playoffs. The narrative about him being a fourth forward should have died 2-3 seasons ago. Stats are already showing he's elite defensively. He simply tilts the ice. Doughty is great defensively, not not anywhere near Karlsson's level overall.

 

[Maurice of Orange]

Karlsson already has 2 Norris trophys, so I don't think his feelings got hurt if Burns or Doughty won a Norris.

Burns:

Karlsson:

 

[Leafidelity]

The Norris is two trophies jammed together trying to be both. Split off OFD and give them another award.

 

[Igor Shestyorkin]

Karlsson has half of the Norris trophies he should actually have. End of story.

 

[Benjamin]

Everyone should do themselves a favour and stop caring about voted-on awards. They don't mean anything.

I only care about the Awards I personally hand out.

 

[BruinsBtn]

Karlsson's first Norris was a joke. Did you complain then?

 

[pi314]

I'm not saying Karlsson isn't the man...

It's just that you greatly underestimate Drew Doughty.

I don't get a chance to see him as much since he's on the West coast. Though every time he's played in international competitions for Canada, he's been incredible. He definitely has the "it" factor.

That's the beauty of the game today. There are lots of great, great players.

 

[clydesdale line]

Karlsson's first Norris was a joke. Did you complain then?

Ottawa fans will never bring that up though and still defend it.

 

[Barrie22]

As a Canadian, I am inclined to agree. Karlsson simply tilts the ice in his team's favour. He's the reason Ottawa can even make the playoffs. The narrative about him being a fourth forward should have died 2-3 seasons ago. Stats are already showing he's elite defensively. He simply tilts the ice. Doughty is great defensively, not not anywhere near Karlsson's level overall.

What stats are these that show karlsson is great defensively? Because if you are talking about advanced stats then you would have to place burns above him defensively and offensively this year.

These so called stats karlsson fans talk about must only be known by karlsson fans and no other fans can know about them since they can never be posted to prove karlssons amazing defensive prowless.

 

[Kresnik]

What stats are these that show karlsson is great defensively? Because if you are talking about advanced stats then you would have to place burns above him defensively and offensively this year.

These so called stats karlsson fans talk about must only be known by karlsson fans and no other fans can know about them since they can never be posted to prove karlssons amazing defensive prowless.

Ye, Burns is easily a better player on both side of the ice... Karlssson is just an overrated pretty boy who kids adore.

 

[JackSlater]

I am amazed by how much whining is being done about Karlsson not winning the Norris trophy, especially the whining that it is due to his Swedish passport. I would have voted for Karlsson the last two years, but it's not like he's been outright robbed. Here is a very, very relevant point - there have been plenty of bad Norris trophy decisions. Additional very relevant point - in most of those cases the losing player who should have won was Canadian. Let's look at some examples:

2011: Lidstrom wins the Norris as a lifetime achievement award. Lidstrom was no longer great defensively by any stretch, but he did put up good numbers. Hard to fathom that just five and six years later the voters would become so adamant about screwing over a Swede. The winner should probably have been Weber (Canadian) or maybe Chara (Slovakian). I suppose the voters that year were biased against Canadians and Slovaks.

1998: Blake (Canadian) wins, Lidstrom was probably better. Must have been descrimination due to Lidstrom's nationality, which explains his poor Norris record in the decade that followed I guess.

1992: Leetch (American) wins the Norris, Bourque (Canadian) finishes second. Leetch has 21 more points than Bourque (102 to 81) but plays on a much, much stronger team (first place in the NHL by 7 points, Hart winner Messier, scored 51 more goals than Boston did) and was not in Bourque's league defensively. League must have forgotten to favour Canadians that year.

1984: Langway (American) wins the Norris over Bourque, Coffey and Potvin (all Canadians). Langway is absolutely elite defensively but has 33 points. Bourque and Potvin are also elite defensively, but they have 96 and 85 points respectively. Coffey was not very good defensively but had 126 points, plus 7 more goals than Langway had points. League once again forgot the memo that Canadians should win the Norris I suppose.

1983: Langway (American) wins for the first time, despite only 32 points. Mark Howe (Canadian/American) was also elite defensively and had 67 points, but lost anyway. Coffey had three times as many points as Langway and lost. I suppose the voters just assumed that Langway was Canadian.

1981: Carlyle (Canadian) wins with 83 points and poor defence. Potvin had 76 points and provided elite defence, but lost. Wonky vote, so it must have been nationality somehow.

It's not too difficult to find wonky results in the history of this award just in the last few decades. Somehow though, those wonky results don't seem to always work out in favour of whoever the top Canadian defenceman is. It's almost as if sometimes the best defenceman loses the award and nationality isn't the primary reason.

 

[hohosaregood]

Ye, Burns is easily a better player on both side of the ice... Karlssson is just an overrated pretty boy who kids adore.

This really wasn't Karlsson's best year. Especially if you account for advanced stats.

 

[Wood Stick]

I am amazed by how much whining is being done about Karlsson not winning the Norris trophy, especially the whining that it is due to his Swedish passport. I would have voted for Karlsson the last two years, but it's not like he's been outright robbed. Here is a very, very relevant point - there have been plenty of bad Norris trophy decisions. Additional very relevant point - in most of those cases the losing player who should have won was Canadian. Let's look at some examples:

2011: Lidstrom wins the Norris as a lifetime achievement award. Lidstrom was no longer great defensively by any stretch, but he did put up good numbers. Hard to fathom that just five and six years later the voters would become so adamant about screwing over a Swede. The winner should probably have been Weber (Canadian) or maybe Chara (Slovakian). I suppose the voters that year were biased against Canadians and Slovaks.

1998: Blake (Canadian) wins, Lidstrom was probably better. Must have been descrimination due to Lidstrom's nationality, which explains his poor Norris record in the decade that followed I guess.

1992: Leetch (American) wins the Norris, Bourque (Canadian) finishes second. Leetch has 21 more points than Bourque (102 to 81) but plays on a much, much stronger team (first place in the NHL by 7 points, Hart winner Messier, scored 51 more goals than Boston did) and was not in Bourque's league defensively. League must have forgotten to favour Canadians that year.

1984: Langway (American) wins the Norris over Bourque, Coffey and Potvin (all Canadians). Langway is absolutely elite defensively but has 33 points. Bourque and Potvin are also elite defensively, but they have 96 and 85 points respectively. Coffey was not very good defensively but had 126 points, plus 7 more goals than Langway had points. League once again forgot the memo that Canadians should win the Norris I suppose.

1983: Langway (American) wins for the first time, despite only 32 points. Mark Howe (Canadian/American) was also elite defensively and had 67 points, but lost anyway. Coffey had three times as many points as Langway and lost. I suppose the voters just assumed that Langway was Canadian.

1981: Carlyle (Canadian) wins with 83 points and poor defence. Potvin had 76 points and provided elite defence, but lost. Wonky vote, so it must have been nationality somehow.

It's not too difficult to find wonky results in the history of this award just in the last few decades. Somehow though, those wonky results don't seem to always work out in favour of whoever the top Canadian defenceman is. It's almost as if sometimes the best defenceman loses the award and nationality isn't the primary reason.

Except even when slowing down Lidstrom was always great defensively.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Oh good another Swedish poster playing the victim card that all of these Norris' results are due to nationalism bias and players being "due"...now I will wait patiently while you explain when these tactics were implemented because I seem to recall some Swedish dman winning 7 out of 10 Norris trophies, barely remember his name because I had to listen to the dumb biased Canadian media that whole time.

And during that 10 year period of dominance they had the gall to give a trophy to a goddamn Slovak as well when they should have been rewarding good Canadian boys but only bestowed two upon them for a decade. I guess they just hate Karlsson more cause he doesn't play on a Canadia...hey, wait a minute!

 

[leafsfan1234]

Maybe you just need to accept the fact that Karlsson is just average defensively and doesn't deserve a Norris every year? He is basically Gardiner with 2x as many points.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Karlsson isn't head and shoulders better than a good # of d-men in the NHL. As a result there are years when someone else gets the nod.

 

[sparxx87]

There needs to be an award for offensive defenseman so we can get back to awarding the Norris for overall proficiency.

Karlsson will get his trophy and we can recognize a more traditional defenseman for the Norris. Problem solved, everyone's happy.

 

[Barrie22]

Karlsson isn't head and shoulders better than a good # of d-men in the NHL. As a result there are years when someone else gets the nod.

No no he is better then orr and any one that says differently needs to spend some time to watch him better.

 

[smackdaddy]

It's always been a popularity contest. It's based in nothing but random opinions of people who have tons of bias. Here are some of the factors affecting a fair and honest vote:

- No vetting of voting members
- East coast bias
- Popularity over skill
- Flash over substance
- Points over ability

It's just a stupid meaningless award.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Why did you even make this thread? It's just a victim complex that has been beaten to death since the awards(and really for over a year now) with no new information or substance added, just a copy and pasting of the same garbage filling these boards already, monkey see monkey do I guess.

 

[Plager05]

sports journalism is a joke. they need to shift all voting for all awards for all sports to multiple veterans committee.

 

[RickP]

Norris trophies are cool and all, but the First and Second All Star teams are a bit more relevant in my opinion. No one really remembers who was the runner up for the Norris, but at least you get 4 defensemen named on the First and Second All Star teams.

Karlsson was on the first all star team 4 times in his career, that's outstanding. He won 2 Norris trophies out of 4, that's fair IMO. He probably deserved the last 2, but he didn't quite fully deserve his first 2, so it evens out.

He barely played on the PK during the 2 seasons where he won the Norris. IMO the best defenseman in the league should play on the PK.