The NHL has a BIG problem (Cap Circumvention via LTIR)

[Mach2]

The LTIR and salary cap rules are the same for every team. I guess it's unfair that some teams have better GMs than other teams. So, let's add a new rule to fix that too.

 

[Mr Positive]

Your reply has nothing to do with my argument. Let me go through this again....

Some things like LTIR are excepted from counting against the salary cap. This is why a situation like the OP presents can happen in the first place.

However, in a normal year (when the PA and the BOG are not trying to mitigate the issues of an entire year with no fans), the CBA dictates that 50% of HRR goes to the players in salaries. LTIR counts in this calculation.

The effect of this is that, if TB exceeds the usual salary cap via use of LTIR, then the amount of HRR which is being paid to the players goes up (again, this is a separate calculation that the salary cap entirely), and therefore, escrow increases.

The players should hate this. The fact that they don't shows that PA leadership is dysfunctional.

My point was that if insurance companies are paying it, not the owners, how is it cutting into the player share of HRR?

 

[Confucius]

I dont blame Toronto or TB.

But i do think this loophole needs to be closed

To be honest i dont really understand why this havent happenend before. I dont see a single reason why playoffs shouldnt have a cap

players arent paid for the playoffs. So I guess its because all the money was already earned and paidout.

 

[MNNumbers]

My point was that if insurance companies are paying it, not the owners, how is it cutting into the player share of HRR?

Because the CBA defines money paid to players under LTIR as if it is HRR money which is paid to the players.

Again:
The players get 50% of HRR. This is completely independent of the salary cap.
The money which the players get is defined as: salaries, LTIR, and a few other small tidbits.

It doesn't matter that the insurance company actually pays it. The CBA says it counts against the 50% rule, so it does.

 

[Off Sides]

If the trading of permanent LTIR contracts is allowed...

 

[Martin Skoula]

I'd just audit injuries; what Toronto and Tampa is doing that's iffy is extending the LTIR time of Andersen and Kucherov when they might be able to come back earlier.

Heck, allow other teams to request an audit as a way to deal with the misincentives

The league can't force someone to get a surgery as soon as they're injured. Tampa can abuse this by working with Kucherov to schedule his surgery at the start or end of the off-season to line up the expected recovery time with the last week or two of the regular season.

The only real issue the NHL can push here is that teams are incentivized to have their players make surgery decisions around the NHL schedule rather than their own health.

 

[123offtheglass]

Personally think their salary cap should be something between what they have now and what the NBA has right now.

They should have both a soft & hard cap, where once a team goes over the soft cap they pay a very high premium for every dollar they spend, that somehow is distributed out to the rest of the league, mostly to those teams with less annual profit.

This could be a great way for the league to makeup some money that they've lost because of the pandemic, and afterward: improve their growth going forward.

So maybe a team like Toronto goes ahead and "exploits it", but at some point maybe they're paying $10 for every dollar they spend, I do think there should still be a hard cap though, but a soft cap should be added.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Simply put, Cap Circumvention via LTIR

Teams like Tampa Bay and Toronto are using LTIR to bolster their rosters for the playoffs.

Kucherov being out the entire season, giving the Lightning $10.5M in extra cap relief throughout the season. But as soon as the playoffs come around, he can be activated off LTIR without a hiccup and Tampa will be playing in the playoffs with a roster that could have a cap hit north of $95M.

Toronto acquired Riley Nash from Columbus and it won’t count for a cent on their cap since he’s on LTIR and won’t be activated until the playoffs where there is no salary cap.

The Salary cap was created to give smaller market teams a fighting chance against the larger spending, big markets of the NHL. But with this LTIR loophole, it allows teams like Toronto and Tampa Bay extra cap space since in the playoffs, there is no salary cap.


There is a simple solution to this problem, have a salary cap in the playoffs. it would completely negate this loophole.

A bigger problem is the salary cap. We are not communists.

 

[MarkovsKnee]

I 100% agree. The cap should remain in effect for the entire year. Why it dissapears for the playoffs is beyond me and makes no sense.

Because roster sizes increase after the deadline/season. Teams carry extra players in case of injury. Definitely a #3 goalie. At least 8D, and up to 14-16 forwards, especially if the AHL season is done.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

Because roster sizes increase after the deadline/season. Teams carry extra players in case of injury. Definitely a #3 goalie. At least 8D, and up to 14-16 forwards, especially if the AHL season is done.

Make a taxi squad for the playoffs, bring up, send down players as needed, use IR/LTIR if need be, just needs to be in the confines of the salary cap.

 

[gstommylee]

The game management by refs is the biggest issue with nhl.

so you want 20-30 penalties a game. People would lose interest quickly.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Some GMs are smarter than others and find an edge or a loophole. Nothing won't e with that.

Many successful people in life so the same thing.

 

[Deadpool8812]

The players who pour their blood, sweat and tears into this game would probably prefer to not be hurt for an entire season. This isn’t circumvention

I always love how people think players are ok just sitting on the sideline after their injury is recovered to help their team stay cap compliant

 

[WhalerTurnedBruin55]

All teams can use this "loop hole". TB is the 21st most valuable team according to Forbes with a 470 million dollar valuation.

Yea, they can.

I just find it silly that the NHL even attempts to crack down on cap circumvention. Do what you can get away with, until they close the loop hole.

I have absolutely no problem with the teams doing this either. But just seems... like a joke at times. Less loopholes, hard number cap, institute a luxury tax or forfeiting of draft picks. Good times likely don't even worry.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Silly thing to worry about

 

[Leaf Fans]

Make a taxi squad for the playoffs, bring up, send down players as needed, use IR/LTIR if need be, just needs to be in the confines of the salary cap.

It is already in the confines of the salary cap.

 

[CanadianCoyote]

A bigger problem is the salary cap. We are not communists.

Cost certainty for owners isn't communism, that is excessively hyperbolic.

 

[Leaf Fans]

Cost certainty for owners isn't communism, that is excessively hyperbolic.

Oh sorry facisim.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I 100% agree. The cap should remain in effect for the entire year. Why it dissapears for the playoffs is beyond me and makes no sense.

same reason teams gain cap space around trade deadline. because cap hit is based off regular season. they are not paid for playoffs. unless a cap is put in place for playoffs and the players are paid. what can they do?

 

[Warden of the North]

The Leafs have been funding "have not" teams via revenue sharing.

Excuse me while I don't care if the Leafs wield there financial might in any way they can.

 

[CanadianCoyote]

Making up some ridiculous LTIR scheme is way more hassle than just calling up a team and saying "hey, we need to shed salary, would you be willing to take on *insert player*'s contract for a pick?".

 

[Ted Hoffman]

A bigger problem is the salary cap. We are not communists.

Oh sorry facisim.

This gets better with every post.

And by "better" I mean "a fantastic illustration of lobbing words without any clue what they really mean."

 

[Ted Hoffman]

The Leafs have been funding "have not" teams via revenue sharing.

Excuse me while I don't care if the Leafs wield there financial might in any way they can.

The Leafs [and all the other big-market teams] consented to "funding 'have not' teams via revenue sharing."

In fact, I can put forth an argument that it's in the best interest of the Leafs [and all the other big-market teams] to do so if they want to be (more) successful on the ice.

 

[Leaf Fans]

This gets better with every post.

And by "better" I mean "a fantastic illustration of lobbing words without any clue what they really mean."

Yeah " cost certainty" lol

 

[CanadianCoyote]

Let's not also forget that the Winnipegs and Calgarys are just as much have-nots as the Arizonas or Floridas, either; it's all smaller teams that get hit equally by a capless league, not just a select portion.

Does anybody really think that Winnipeg would be even remotely a realistic option in a capless NHL? Because I sure as hell don't; lack of ability to keep up with the bigger markets in that exact situation is what f***ed the original team so badly they moved to begin with.

Revenue sharing and the salary cap just makes the lives of those teams that aren't blessed with New York and Toronto-level money much easier because they're not being horribly outspent and left with the table scraps of the league.

Hell, Québec never lost money, but they still got f***ed by the lack of a cap and the ballooning of salaries so hard they moved to Denver.