Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by Warden of the North, Jun 22, 2018.
Yeah, it is not like we would be hurting with Travis Konecny though.
Hollowell looks decent tbh
Hollowell is a 20 year old in the CHL, he should be dominating. If he was good for his age, he'd be in the AHL.
Both Hollowell and Durzi almost made the Marlies out of camp, they would have if they Marlies at the time didn't have a stacked blue line.
Almost doesn't cut it. They didn't. 20-year-olds generally who are good enough make the AHL regardless of who is in front of them.
The people saying Durzi and Hollowell werent good enough for the AHL are simply wrong. Then again, its another excuse to rip on Dubas, and conduct a Hunter admiration session(any NHL team hire him yet?).
They didnt make the Marlies because of the depth on the D core. This is a fact.
This draft looks better then Hunter's in 2016 or 2017.
I mean that is a pretty negative outlook.
It is hard to beat out Sandin/Liljegren/Borgman/Rosen/Subban/LoVerde
It is much better for their development to get 20+ minutes a night in the OHL then 3rd pairing AHL minutes
Yes but he got 2 NHL players and that indicates average.
Being average is clearly good enough and Hunter shouldnt be criticized
Did you see the drafting of the regime he had to overturn? Under the guy we just re-promoted to Director of Player Personnel?
They didn't think he was good enough and they signed Subban. They easily could have left a spot open for one of them. They decided post draft to sign Subban. Lets not act like the Marlies are the Preds on D. Those guys are beatable out for spots. You are trying to develop with the AHL team, not field the best possible team.
How Durzi is always injured? SDA can't score in the OHL.
There is literally no evidence this draft is better than either. The only thing is, is that its newer so your willing to look at it with bright eyes.
Hunter could have a scouting director job tomorrow. He's waiting for a GM job he wants, if not he can sit back. You really think Arizona would hire Lindsey Hofford over him if given the option?
I don't think anyone outside of Sandin is a better prospect than Ian Scott at the moment. Who from 2018 is even close to Scott as a prospect right now?
Hunter is really overrated and his drafting here proved it.
He did much better than prior regimes. I'm not saying he's perfect, but you take anyone with the absolute perfect pick in a spot, they will look bad. I could do that to the Lightning, Anaheim or Blues and they would look bad. I'm still waiting to see how 2018 is so great? The only guy who looks like a likely NHLer is Sandin. Is anyone we drafted in 2018 a better prospect than Ian Scott outside of Sandin? I mean, we could have taken Morozov, Addison, or Madden over Durzi.
I'd argue Woll> Scott....
I would too, but who picked Woll? But, that was apparently a nothing draft considering we got Grundstrom and Woll.
To which I think I remember you saying we only picked sandin due to soo connection and gave a very negative review of him afterwood. You have a very anti-dubas slant to your postings since he got the job over hunter. I’m not sure if you were all in on hunter or just an irrational dislike of dubas. Could be both I guess.
So did Nielsen post draft. Let's pump the breaks until they're actually in the NHL before allocating credit to a particular evaluator.
You also have to consider that drafts can't be compartmentalized so easily when both guys were in decision-making capacities at the same time. There were some picks during the so-called Hunter era that just based on 2019 look to have Dubas' influence (the 2nd and 3rd year eligible guys) and guys which based on not taking them in 2019 look in retrospect like Hunter types (the fridge defensemen).
I was fine on Sandin. Don't lie about what I said. I said Hollowell, and the rest of the top 4 picks were due to Dubas just following the OHL and not going out of his comfort zone and listening to the regional guys. I was only annoyed about trading down with St. Louis for Bokk.
If you are going to fault me for things. Make sure its things I said.
I think this is the most negative thing I said about Sandin.
The only other thing I remember saying negative happened before we drafted him because I was annoyed about trading down on Bokk, remember this happened before we drafted Sandin. And, that criticism is rooted in nothing but the trade down, and not what you claimed.
But, post-draft this was my biggest complaint.
Do I like the direction of our scouting department? Not at all from what I've heard from around the OHL this year. They've basically just kept Morrison in Pro-scouting but with a new title, as a cover over Wes Clark, as they didn't want to immediately give him the top gig. But, I give credit to Dubas when he does things that I think are beneficial. I hope he is great, as that means the Leafs win the cup. I'd rather be wrong and the Leafs do well drafting and prove me wrong. I one, just don't see how the 2018 draft proves this at all, and I think people questioning 2016 and 2017 and putting 2018 in a positive light are being somewhat delusional.
So, atleast be fair to what I actually said, instead of claiming what I said or what you remember. I didn't trash Sandin as a bad pick. And, to say I did, would be having a completely different view than what I said.
Hunter had pretty much full control over the draft board in 2016 and 2017. So, we will see how that stacks up compared to the future drafts under the new staff.
No my mistake i must have attributed another posters post to you just going by memory. Sorry for making you search back all those old posts.
Might have been me Walshy, I wasn't against the Sandin pick but I did say I'd have taken Bokk
Sandin's propensity for taking hits worried me as well, i was concerned about how he was going to stay fit if that continued to happen
Look, I get I've said negative things about Dubas, and have questioned the direction of his scouting hires and whether he was the right choice. I still stand by what I said, and as stated, I hope to be proven wrong. But, I also don't take cheap shots. I generally set out standards and parameters of how I'll judge things, and judge by that merit. For example, I said at the draft, I felt that if we are drafting overagers as high as we did, that they should be immediately AHL ready. Neither were. That isn't an attempt to make Dubas look bad, that is just the expectation I have if we are going to take someone like Durzi. I think any 2nd rounder by the time they are 20 should be ready to be playing professional hockey. Yes, Marlies have depth, but its a development league, you create a spot for him if he's good enough. He shouldn't be blocked by guys like Jordan Subban or Loverde who we don't have expectations for, even if they are better in the short term. I'll give him credit when he signs a John Tavares, because similar to the Marner pick (which people say anyone can do, although a lot would have chosen Hanafin, and to a lesser extent Matthews over Laine) because at the end of the day Dubas did it. We don't get an alternative universe, Dubas got JT to sign, regardless of what tools he may have had in his favor.
I didn't say anything negative about Dubas when it was easiest, which was the Nylander hold out? You know why? Because, I respected his position, and predicament. If the cost of signing JT was a Nylander hold-out and Nylander had an unreasonable ask, I'm not going to bash a guy for that. Now, I question some of the hires he's made, and hopefully, they prove me wrong (as being proved right, will probably piss me off, as I care way more about Leafs winning than being right on an online message board).
Look, I may disagree with Dubas and some of the things he does, but I don't think I'm overly unfair to him.
Sandin was one player I didnt want. Happy to be wrong so far.
I think what sucks about last years draft is RIGHT after we picked Durzi, there was just a giant run on guys I wanted more.
Wise (hasn't done that well)
Kind of hoped Madden and Regula was there for our 3rd rounder
Gruden went early 4th, so no chance.
Happy with Kral, would have even take him in the 4th.
6th and 7th, had no clue, at allll. I just like going NCAA/Euro with those picks generally, more time is a good thing.
I think the only thing that looks kind of sketch with Hunters' drafting were the Korshkov and Rasanen picks. I was expecting so many different names when both were picked. I remember literally saying "who????" when we took Korshkov.
I don't have anything against either regime yet. I want to see how the picks progress in the next 1-3 years (depending on which year of draft class we're talking). Kind of funny though, seems like I have to reach a few picks with the players I like
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