The Myth of the Pacioretty/Desharnais Dependence
- Thread starter Maffew
- Start date
tbf, it also means that Desharnais' decent production hasn't been depending on MaxPac.
If Pacioretty scores 50 goals and Desharnais gets assists on 25+ of them the I'd say that Desharnais is a valuable contributor who justifies his extended contract. However, that's not the case, so what should we think? The only thing we could be sure of is that Pacioretty is by far the best threat to score goals on the Habs.
Boris Le Tigre
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Sadly, for all we know Pacioretty can't play with another center. Desharnais has yet to show he can be productive if Pacioretty gets another injury. Pretty concerning to say the least this is what our long term top 6 is based around outside Galchenyuk being properly developed.
MsChanandlerBong
The Chan-Chan Man
Imo it's the opposite. Pretty silly to believe that Patches relies on DD of all centers to get his goals...it's DD who needs a pure goal scorer to get his assists. Don't get me wrong, DD is a great playmaker, but without the team's two best goal scorers on his line, the guy wouldn't hit over 30 points in a full season.
Sorinth
Registered User
- Jan 18, 2013
- 11,056
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No it doesn't.
Just because MaxPac's production doesn't depend on Desharnais doesn't mean Desharnais's production is not dependent on MaxPac. It's not necessarily a one to one relationship.
But here are some actual stats
17 of DD's 36 points also included a Pacioretty point.
7 of DD's 16 primary assists were off a Pacioretty goal.
So Desharnais is more dependent on Pacioretty then Pacioretty is on Desharnais, but that should've been obvious to everyone.
So in theory replace Pacioretty with someone half as good offensively and DD would lose a quarter of his points. But I doubt it works that way in practice. Which is why I'm not sure there's a lot of value in this kind of analysis.
Is Getzlaf and Perry combo also a myth ?
Every team have at least one combo like that. Team Canada was built that way for the Olympics, too.
Every team have at least one combo like that. Team Canada was built that way for the Olympics, too.
WeThreeKings
Habs cup - its in the BAG
SirClintonPortis
ProudCapitalsTraitor
Other way around. DD is the product of the awesomeness of Patches. You are not dispelling a myth. You are restating the truth.
SirClintonPortis
ProudCapitalsTraitor
Getzlaf can score goals. Don't look now, but a 20 goal scorer is apparently something to drool over. He also takes shots. This year is a unusual one for Getzlaf because he's gonna be a 30 goal scorer. But DD WILL NEVER be a 30 goal scorer.
Getzlaf also plays on the first line and has to face real stiff competition...
SirClintonPortis
ProudCapitalsTraitor
Pacioretty played with Scott Gomez when the Chara incident occurred and people were playing the hypothetical "if Pacioretty had been able to play, we'd have beaten Boston". Not that the hypothetical didn't have legitimate basis, but that is not the point. The point was that he was playing that well with Gio and Gomez to get people to believe he could have been a valuable contributer in the playoffs this season, and I personally do believe that would have been the case.
11 of DD's 25 assists come from pacioretty.
Considering pacioretty is our best goal scorer this shouldn't be surprising should it?
Not to mention, Pacioretty has DD on 38% of his goals. 44% of DD's assists are max goals vs 38% of max's goals are DD assists.
The numbers don't show much in the favour of saying DD relies on max any more so than max relies on DD.
You did not get my point.
The league is filled with combo of players that are succeeding because they are working together. Guys who are playing together since a long time.
What's wrong having one such combo in Montreal ?
Plante
Devils Advocate
Did you just compare DD to... Getzlaf?
Actually he didn't. All he's suggesting is some players work well together and are often paired together.
For example, should I cry foul since Markov and Subban always play PP together? No, because they are an effective duo. Pacioretty and DD are an effective duo as well.
By no means are they as effective as Getzlaf and Perry, he never said that.
It creates a marriage between a player most want long term in the top 6 and a C that realistically would never have as prominent of a role on a good team...if any. Furthermore, it creates the uncertainty that the player they want can even mesh with other players and be that long term option.
Of course, if you see Desharnais as a legit top 6 that can actually produce well without Pacioretty and be happy with him maintaining this role for next 4 years, this duo would seem fantastic. Unfortunately or fortunately depending on your view on him this is most likely what we'll see.
Apart from Plekanec and DD I don't see any other option for pacioretty that would be good.
Galchenyuk is an option but our wingers would suck after. I maintain that if we get a legit top 6 winger, we can trade DD, won't bother me. Then again, if Eller would sulk being 3rd, might as well trade him or both.
42 GP since Nov 19th.
Patches at 4.5 for 6 years was going to be RFA. 27G-11A since Nov 19th. Will finish first scorer among Habs.
DD at 3.5 for 4 years was going to be UFA. 11G-24A since Nov 19th. Will finish second scorer among Habs.
The third scorer among forwards is going to be either Plekanec or Gallagher(who has 7G-13A since November 19th).
Together they are both the most productive offensive line in our team.
Now Max is happy with DD and no one can deny that he is producing.
It is not like Desharnais is not producing, he is going toward a 50 points season despite his 19 games slump.
Actually his pace since Nov 19th is 68 points (74 points for patches).
That would put both of them in top-30...
For 3.5 and 4.5 respectively, not so bad.
Most important: you remove DD, who is going to score his points.
All those DD haters have theories about other players replacing him and having the same numbers...
To me the only center who could replace Desharnais is Plekanec.
Next season, Galchenyuk should be able to do it.
I have nothing against Eller replacing Desharnais if he can but he has 8 points since Nov 19th.
Now you can all blame Therrien, Bergevin but he is still being paired with Galchenyuk.
To me, Habs management are still having those two players together because they want Eller to produce.
There are three established duos:
Now the Patches-DD combo dates back to 11-12... It has not changed since. So many want to break this but did you ask the players???
BTW, Max played with Gomez and Gionta and Plekanec and Gionta back in 2010-11...
Just saying: Pacioretty wants to play with DD.
And you have so many armchair coaches and GM (of course they can take both role better than anyone
).
Just go and tell to your best scorer: I am going to put you with another center and I don't care what you think about it.
To me, it is simple:
I think that patches can choose the center he wants.
Anyone else wants to tell Kessel, Kane, Perry, Ovechkin, or Sharp wo is going to be their center?
Some wingers can choose their center: Pacioretty is now among them!
Patches at 4.5 for 6 years was going to be RFA. 27G-11A since Nov 19th. Will finish first scorer among Habs.
DD at 3.5 for 4 years was going to be UFA. 11G-24A since Nov 19th. Will finish second scorer among Habs.
The third scorer among forwards is going to be either Plekanec or Gallagher(who has 7G-13A since November 19th).
Together they are both the most productive offensive line in our team.
Now Max is happy with DD and no one can deny that he is producing.
It is not like Desharnais is not producing, he is going toward a 50 points season despite his 19 games slump.
Actually his pace since Nov 19th is 68 points (74 points for patches).
That would put both of them in top-30...
For 3.5 and 4.5 respectively, not so bad.
Most important: you remove DD, who is going to score his points.
All those DD haters have theories about other players replacing him and having the same numbers...
To me the only center who could replace Desharnais is Plekanec.
Next season, Galchenyuk should be able to do it.
I have nothing against Eller replacing Desharnais if he can but he has 8 points since Nov 19th.
Now you can all blame Therrien, Bergevin but he is still being paired with Galchenyuk.
To me, Habs management are still having those two players together because they want Eller to produce.
There are three established duos:
- Plekanec-Gionta;
- Desharnais-Pacioretty;
- Eller-Galchenyuk.
Now the Patches-DD combo dates back to 11-12... It has not changed since. So many want to break this but did you ask the players???
BTW, Max played with Gomez and Gionta and Plekanec and Gionta back in 2010-11...
Just saying: Pacioretty wants to play with DD.
And you have so many armchair coaches and GM (of course they can take both role better than anyone
).Just go and tell to your best scorer: I am going to put you with another center and I don't care what you think about it.
To me, it is simple:
- Therrien: "Max, who do you want as a center"
- Max: "I want DD"
- Therrien: "Of course Max: BTW, I need a GWG tonight"
- Max: "Will do Mike, thank you so much for asking me!".
I think that patches can choose the center he wants.
Anyone else wants to tell Kessel, Kane, Perry, Ovechkin, or Sharp wo is going to be their center?
Some wingers can choose their center: Pacioretty is now among them!
Pacioretty can choose the center he wants.
You may disagree with his choice but being the best forward in the team allows him to do so...
If/when Galchenyuk will become a center getting more than 60 points per year, it may change.
Maybe Max will be happy to be paired with Chucky.
In the mean time, you can say whatever you want...
Feel free to ask Crosby about having another player than Kunitz.
You really think you can break a bond between players without consequence???
It has been tried before but most coaches try to build those bonds, not break them.
Plekanec was tried (with Gionta) back in 2010-11.
Also Gomez and Gionta in the same year.
So he was sent back to AHL and maybe Gomez and Plekanec did not want to play with him...
So Patches was sent back to AHL, he did rebuilt himself with DD as a partner.
Bonds are built when adversity occurs and you get through together.
Of course anyone can be traded but usually management wants to create bonds in a team not break them.
Only exception is when the bond is making the team weaker.
Anyone thinks that Patches or DD are causing problems?
Just remembering when Desharnais got out of his slump ater 19 games: reaction of the other players...
Trade Desharnais: Are you sure Patches will produce at the same pace?
Honestly, I get what you're saying but I disagree. Max's opinion matters but it's not his call to make.
Still, there seems to be no reason why they shouldn't play together considering they do well together. The on ice play does enough talking.
Teams are spending a lot of energy to build chemistry.
And you are saying that it is not his call to make.
OK but for now, you have a 30+ (most likely 40+) goal scorer and you are saying it is not his call to make...
Well, results on the ice is the only thing that counts: 8 GWG.
Let's keep them together.
When DD was not performing they put him in the press box.
But now, wow!
