The Myth of the Pacioretty/Desharnais Dependence

[Maffew]

So you've noticed how people like to call Pacioretty a product of Desharnais feeding him all the time? I felt like doing a little digging, and here's what I came up with:

Pacioretty has 29 goals and 12 assists.

Max has 8 goals with DD as the primary assist (27.6%).
Max has 3 goals with DD as the secondary assist (10.3%).
Max has 18 goals without DD assisting at all (62.1%).

Feel free to quote these numbers next time someone tells you Max needs DD to produce. You can even round DD's primary assists ratio on Max's goals up to 30%, and it'll still sound like not much!

And in fact, Pacioretty has as many assists from Subban as he does from Desharnais (11). Gallagher (8) and Markov (6) aren't far behind in assisting either!

Click to read more...

 

[ThaDevilGirl]

So you've noticed how people like to call Pacioretty a product of Desharnais feeding him all the time?

They do?

 

[SquiddFX]

I don't think anyone said Patches depends on DD...

 

[MXD]

So you've noticed how people like to call Pacioretty a product of Desharnais feeding him all the time? I felt like doing a little digging, and here's what I came up with:

Pacioretty has 29 goals and 12 assists.

Max has 8 goals with DD as the primary assist (27.6%).
Max has 3 goals with DD as the secondary assist (10.3%).
Max has 18 goals without DD assisting at all (62.1%).

Feel free to quote these numbers next time someone tells you Max needs DD to produce. You can even round DD's primary assists ratio on Max's goals up to 30%, and it'll still sound like not much!

And in fact, Pacioretty has as many assists from Subban as he does from Desharnais (11). Gallagher (8) and Markov (6) aren't far behind in assisting either!

I think you're probably from another planet if you really think that the bolded is this board's mantra.

 

[Maffew]

I think you're probably from another planet if you really think that the bolded is this board's mantra.

People actually thought I meant Habs fans? I meant the main board. We know better here, but a handful of people bring it up every so often over there.

I know putting down the Habs and our players is commonplace over there, but after seeing it yet again the other day (I forget where, but I'll keep track next time ), I needed to go number-crunching.

 

[FrontierPsyCHiatrist*]

So you've noticed how people like to call Pacioretty a product of Desharnais feeding him all the time?

I like to quote sentences.

 

[tez]

So what you're saying is Desharnais has produced incredibly efficiently offensively over his last 40 or so games without relying on Pacioretty scoring on his passes.

 

[MXD]

People actually thought I meant Habs fans? I meant the main board. We know better here, but a handful of people bring it up every so often over there.

I know putting down the Habs and our players is commonplace over there, but after seeing it yet again the other day (I forget where, but I'll keep track next time ), I needed to go number-crunching.

Oh!

Okay then. Fair enough. Your initial statement wasn't that clear.

I think it's fair to say that DD helps Pacioretty, the same way most players help their linemates. I think it's also fair to say that Pacioretty probably helps Desharnais more than the other way around, even if point percentage isn't THAT higher on Desharnais's side (and that might be attributed to the fact that DD spent 3-4 games on the 4th line with linemates that could not be legitimately expected to produce, while Pacioretty played with linemates that could be legitimately expected to produce when he wasn't with Desharnais).

 

[Maffew]

So what you're saying is Desharnais has produced incredibly efficiently offensively over his last 40 or so games without relying on Pacioretty scoring on his passes.

That's putting it the other way around now. DD has 24 assists, 11 of them (one assist short of half) are on Pacioretty goals. Patches only has two assists on DD's 11 goals though, so long story short (and what we all know just from watching), is that DD needs to shoot more, because he can definitely score on his own, but he does rely on Max for a ton of his assists.

 

[Et le But]

Subban and/or Markov is also almost always on the ice at the same time as DD and Pacioretty. That line shares the ice with a Douglas Murray sized weight the least of any line.

Something that needs to be noted when discussing that line's relatively soft usage.

 

[DAChampion]

Subban and/or Markov is also almost always on the ice at the same time as DD and Pacioretty. That line shares the ice with a Douglas Murray sized weight the least of any line.

Something that needs to be noted when discussing that line's relatively soft usage.

How large is the difference?

 

[Natey]

They're both nearby point per game players since the first six weeks while playing on a line. Are they really the players we should be worrying about?

 

[Monctonscout]

So you've noticed how people like to call Pacioretty a product of Desharnais feeding him all the time? I felt like doing a little digging, and here's what I came up with:

Pacioretty has 29 goals and 12 assists.

Max has 8 goals with DD as the primary assist (27.6%).
Max has 3 goals with DD as the secondary assist (10.3%).
Max has 18 goals without DD assisting at all (62.1%).

Feel free to quote these numbers next time someone tells you Max needs DD to produce. You can even round DD's primary assists ratio on Max's goals up to 30%, and it'll still sound like not much!

And in fact, Pacioretty has as many assists from Subban as he does from Desharnais (11). Gallagher (8) and Markov (6) aren't far behind in assisting either!

I don't think either guy needs the other to produce. They just both play better together. Desharnais gives Pacioretty the puck in spots where he can get off good shots.

 

[Monctonscout]

Subban and/or Markov is also almost always on the ice at the same time as DD and Pacioretty. That line shares the ice with a Douglas Murray sized weight the least of any line.

Something that needs to be noted when discussing that line's relatively soft usage.

It's only logical to put out an offensive d-man with your most offensive line, right?

I don't see where they get "soft usage" I'm sure they get the opposing team's best d-men and checking lines more than any other line...that's always been a myth to crap on Desharnais. Do you think LA had Doughty out to try and stop White Moen and Weise?

 

[MXD]

It's only logical to put out an offensive d-man with your most offensive line, right?

I don't see where they get "soft usage" I'm sure they get the opposing team's best d-men and checking lines more than any other line...that's always been a myth to crap on Desharnais. Do you think LA had Doughty out to try and stop White Moen and Weise?

Probably the effect of power play usage.

 

[Et le But]

It's only logical to put out an offensive d-man with your most offensive line, right?

I don't see where they get "soft usage" I'm sure they get the opposing team's best d-men and checking lines more than any other line...that's always been a myth to crap on Desharnais. Do you think LA had Doughty out to try and stop White Moen and Weise?

I'm not saying it's necessarily a problem considering what we have, but in discussing the concentration of offense, it's not enough to mention whether or not Pacioretty and Desharnais are dependent on one another - they are also playing with the team's true possession driver on the blueline.

The kind of lines they usually play against aren't the type that dominate possession, so yes, it directly impacts the amount of chances they are getting. Desharnais' explosion in production directly correlates with his usage being shifted back to heavier offensive zone starts against 3rd/2nd liners. So no, it's not a myth. That doesn't mean a guy like White or Weise would produce anywhere near what Desharnais has lately in that role, no.

And it's not really a problem 5 on 5, as we do have poor wing depth and that's going to hurt the production from guys like Plekanec regardless of usage. On the other hand I'm not convinced using that same line has been effective on the power play. Our power play percentage isn't bad by any means, but if we are going to be one of the worst offensive 5 on 5 teams in the NHL, we need as much production out of the power play as possible.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Cool, get rid of Desharnais then.

 

[Monctonscout]

I'm not saying it's necessarily a problem considering what we have, but in discussing the concentration of offense, it's not enough to mention whether or not Pacioretty and Desharnais are dependent on one another - they are also playing with the team's true possession driver on the blueline.

The kind of lines they usually play against aren't the type that dominate possession, so yes, it directly impacts the amount of chances they are getting. Desharnais' explosion in production directly correlates with his usage being shifted back to heavier offensive zone starts against 3rd/2nd liners. So no, it's not a myth. That doesn't mean a guy like White or Weise would produce anywhere near what Desharnais has lately in that role, no.

And it's not really a problem 5 on 5, as we do have poor wing depth and that's going to hurt the production from guys like Plekanec regardless of usage. On the other hand I'm not convinced using that same line has been effective on the power play. Our power play percentage isn't bad by any means, but if we are going to be one of the worst offensive 5 on 5 teams in the NHL, we need as much production out of the power play as possible.

That line usually plays against teams' shutdown pairs, that what I meant about some of the myths on here about "soft minutes". Is playing against Doughty, Chara, Phaneuf, Phillips etc soft minutes?

 

[hototogisu]

I don't think either guy needs the other to produce. They just both play better together. Desharnais gives Pacioretty the puck in spots where he can get off good shots.

I would say Desharnais probably relies on Pacioretty more than vice versa, but I agree that DD definitely helps. I don't believe you can just slot in anyone else and get the same results, necessarily.

But that's the nature of the passer-shooter relationship, especially with a shooter who can score from anywhere like Patches. Nicklas Backstrom is a great player, but how inflated are his assist totals by feeding a pure sniper like Ovechkin?

 

[Sorinth]

I would say Desharnais probably relies on Pacioretty more than vice versa, but I agree that DD definitely helps. I don't believe you can just slot in anyone else and get the same results, necessarily.

But that's the nature of the passer-shooter relationship, especially with a shooter who can score from anywhere like Patches. Nicklas Backstrom is a great player, but how inflated are his assist totals by feeding a pure sniper like Ovechkin?

It's interesting way to measure chemistry, and makes a case that Pacioretty doesn't need Desharnais. But I'm not too sure about it being used as a measure of how good player x is at feeding player y.

Since you mentioned Ovechkin/Backstrom. Backstrom assists on 49% of Ovie's goals as opposed to DD assisting on 39% of Patches goals.

 

[Halifaxhab*]

Cool, get rid of Desharnais then.

if anyone will take him...I'm sold

 

[gillyguzzler]

Crap on DD when he's not producing.
Crap on DD when he's producing but the little bugger is not assisting on enough of his linemate's goals
Would you find a way to crap on DD if he assisted on all of MaxPac's goals? Would you then say that DD is only producing because he's riding MaxPac's goal scoring success?

The line is producing because they complement each other. DD is the passer. MaxPac is the shooter. And Gallaguer is everything else.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Cool, get rid of Desharnais then.

But if he doesn't make passes off paciorettys goals then maybe he isn't a product of max.

Cue the suspense music.

 

[Sorinth]

But if he doesn't make passes off paciorettys goals then maybe he isn't a product of max.

Cue the suspense music.

Not quite. The OP is about Patches goal scoring. You'd have to check the % of DD's assists that end with a Pacioretty goal to draw a conclusion about how dependent DD is on Max.

 

[Alexdaman]

A myth?