The Montreal Canadiens' System

[Bob b smith]

We may be the shortest team in the history of the nhl.

Maybe since the dead puck era... The average size of an adult male has grown in the last century. I suspect our Top-9 Forwards could hold their own in a line-brawl against the Quebec Bulldogs or Toronto St-Patrick's from the early days of the NHL... Not that it should be a badge of honor.

 

[Bob b smith]

David Desharnais - 5'6" 160lbs grinder?
Brendan Gallagher - 5'8" 170lbs grinder?
Tomas Plekanec - 5'10" 180lbs grinder?
Brian Gionta - 5'7" 180lbs grinder?
Daniel Briere - 5'8" 170lbs grinder?


.

I went to get the Toronto St-Pats roster of 1925-26.

Here is a list of their 4 forwards (they didn't seem to have much more regular Forwards)... They had Rovers back then. They couldn't dress more than 12 players. Forward Passes weren't allowed...

Babe Dye 5'8
Jack Adams 5'9
Pete Bellefeuille 5'10
Mike Neville 5'9
(The Ds were a bit taller)

Some of these guys were born in the 19th Century. Their captain was Bert Corbeau, 5'11, 200 pounds.

 

[rockjngo]

You just can't play a successful dump and chase game if your forwards are too small to win puck battles along the boards and in the corners. You simply can not. People used to say "well, you can't hit what you can't catch" and other nonsense but when a small forward is trying to out grind a large defender, with a large center coming back, too... good luck!

This

 

[JLP]

I went to get the Toronto St-Pats roster of 1925-26.

Here are their 4 forwards (they didn't seem to have much more regular Forwards)...
They had Rovers back then.

Babe Dye 5'8
Jack Adams 5'9
Pete Bellefeuille 5'10
Mike Neville 5'9
(The Ds were a bit taller)

Some of these guys were born in the 19th Century. Their captain was Bert Corbeau, 5'11, 200 pounds.

Moving to the Oji Eagles, the Japan pro team that sort of copied the Habs' uniforms. Their captain and shortest player is Tetsuya Saito, at 5'9". So our Habs have four or five guys who are shorter!

Which is, you know, okay and all that.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

What a successful dump and chase looks like with forwards crashing toward the net.

What Therriens dump and chase looks like.

Just seeing that simplified dump-and-chase diagram infuriates me - Therrien's dump-and-chase is even worse than Jacques Martin's dump-and-change shenanigans... we don't even score off the rush anymore!

 

[MasterDecoy]

our "system" i think is like a chose your own adventure book, let's play. no cheating!

do you have the puck in your zone?
- yes; got to A
- no; go to B

A

you are in your zone, you mindlessly battle to get the puck from your boards. oh ****! you lost the battle, puck is passed to the point. what do you do?
- have two forwards pressure the point men, it's 5 on 5 for ****'s sake; go to C
- collapse to the crease to make sure price or buds can't see **** and who know, maybe you'll even block the shot; go to D

B

you're in the neutral zone, you try to gain the offensive zone. what do you do?
- pass it to try to confuse the defense and enter the zone with speed; go to C
- dump the puck; go to E

C

Lern da systeum!
You're benched for the reminder of the game. you lose, play again

D

flip a coin
- heads: the puck misses/is blocked and you regain possession of the puck; go to B
- tails: puck is deflected off a dozen skates/price didn't see **** and a goal is scored. you're benched for the reminder of the game just 'cause. you lose, play again

E

you dump the puck, anybody else going after it?
- yes; go to F
- no, i think they're changing; go to G

F

you mindlessly battle for the puck around the board where eventually, you lose the puck and the other team is going in your zone. go to G

G

the other team is trying to get into your zone. what do you do?
- keep a close distance with the approaching forwards to force them to dump it where the other defenseman can go retrieve it; go to C
- you skate backwards and give the zone to opposing forwards, then you keep backing up so much that you give the trailing forward a nice wide open shot 15 feet from your goalie. go to H

H

gud ostie! did dey scaure?
- yes. go to C
- no. go to A

 

[TheKid73]

our "system" i think is like a chose your own adventure book, let's play. no cheating!

do you have the puck in your zone?
- yes; got to A
- no; go to B

A


B


C

D


E


F


G


H

Therrien:
"Dammit you just told all da other teams our system, now we never win the cup Subban you benched, davey go get me pack of smoke and new pair of khakis."

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

MasterDecoy must be that shifty looking equipment manager always on screen during games; no way he has such in-depth notes without being in the inner sanctum.

 

[MasterDecoy]

MasterDecoy must be that shifty looking equipment manager always on screen during games; no way he has such in-depth notes without being in the inner sanctum.

im not shifty looking

 

[Hoople]

our "system" i think is like a chose your own adventure book, let's play. no cheating!

do you have the puck in your zone?
- yes; got to A
- no; go to B

A


B


C

D


E


F


G


H

Very nice. Would be comedic if it weren't so close to the truth.

 

[JAVO16]

Just seeing that simplified dump-and-chase diagram infuriates me - Therrien's dump-and-chase is even worse than Jacques Martin's dump-and-change shenanigans... we don't even score off the rush anymore!

What, you're infuriated by a basic hockey diagram ? Every team practices that play because it's often the right play depending on circumstances.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

What, you're infuriated by a basic hockey diagram ? Every team practices that play because it's often the right play depending on circumstances.

It infuriates me that our team doesn't or isn't capable of following even the simplest hockey play. Our dump and chase is awful.

 

[overlords]

What, you're infuriated by a basic hockey diagram ? Every team practices that play because it's often the right play depending on circumstances.

That play depends on the forwards forechecking for the puck being in sync with the 'dumper' and having speed at the time of said dump. Dumping the puck when everyone is standing on the blue line does nothing but give the other team possession.

 

[Monctonscout]

I'm a bit confused about our play system. Are we an offensive team? A defensive team? Somewhere in between? We don't score enough to be an offensive team, and we let in 3+ goals per game so not really defensive. Why are we a grinding team?

David Desharnais - 5'6" 160lbs grinder?
Brendan Gallagher - 5'8" 170lbs grinder?
Tomas Plekanec - 5'10" 180lbs grinder?
Brian Gionta - 5'7" 180lbs grinder?
Daniel Briere - 5'8" 170lbs grinder?
Brandon Prust - 5'11" 190lbs grinder? OK he is.
Mike Weaver - 5'10" 180lbs grinder?
Francis Bouillon - 5'7" 180lbs grinder?

We have the most players in the league under 6' and 180lbs and somehow we a grinding team. Are we going to grind our way beating Boston, Ottawa, Chicago, Anahiem, Toronto, St Louis, LA, San Jose? Why do we need to play a defensive system? We are not New Jersey, I remember the old days when we were always to top offensive team in the league.

I know this will blow your mind, but every team in the NHL "grinds" and plays a defensive system.

I don't think a team has played "wide open" since the Oilers in the 80's.

Playing defense is something you can't do without in today's NHL and grinding out puck battles also.

That seems to be too complex a topic for some on here.

 

[Habaneros]

I know this will blow your mind, but every team in the NHL "grinds" and plays a defensive system.

I don't think a team has played "wide open" since the Oilers in the 80's.

Playing defense is something you can't do without in today's NHL and grinding out puck battles also.

That seems to be too complex a topic for some on here.

ya ,how many teams have won a Stanley cup scoring 205 or less goals a year....or 29th in 5 on 5 scoring....

I can tell ya this recipe is a DUD.

 

[Hoople]

That play depends on the forwards forechecking for the puck being in sync with the 'dumper' and having speed at the time of said dump. Dumping the puck when everyone is standing on the blue line does nothing but give the other team possession.

Spot on reply.

 

[Monctonscout]

ya ,how many teams have won a Stanley cup scoring 205 or less goals a year....or 29th in 5 on 5 scoring....

I can tell ya this recipe is a DUD.

What does the recipe have to with missing 3 breakaways and 2 open nets?

Systems don't score goals, players do.

You need your head checked if you think the Habs would have more success playing a run and gun game. They do have skill but not THAT MUCH skill.

 

[lamp9post]

What does the recipe have to with missing 3 breakaways and 2 open nets?

Systems don't score goals, players do.

You need your head checked if you think the Habs would have more success playing a run and gun game. They do have skill but not THAT MUCH skill.

Agreed. Just because we're small doesn't mean we're talented. It would be a mistake to play run and gun hockey with this team. Best thing we can hope for is good defensive play, quick transitions, opportunistic scoring, good special teams and great goaltending. If we get that, we have a chance to win. However we are a long way from being a contender regardless of the system we play.

 

[Habaneros]

What does the recipe have to with missing 3 breakaways and 2 open nets?

Systems don't score goals, players do.

You need your head checked if you think the Habs would have more success playing a run and gun game. They do have skill but not THAT MUCH skill.

forget get about the missed nets....


I said this back in January..

Fact is last 15 CUP WINNERS Not one team has won a cup scoring 1.80 -2.42 -2.52 goals a game in the playoffs

Fact is last 15 Cup winners,12 of the 15 teams that won the Cup ,had a 5 on 5 regular season scoring rank in top 10.One team only in last 15 years has one a cup with a regular season 5 on 5 goal rank over 20th .

So Monctonscout, the Therrien Habs are 29TH IN 5 ON 5 SCORING ...
The Therrien Habs are averaging 2.42 goals per game.....SAME AS JACQUES MARTIN.

You got Vanek 40 goal man ,Max Pac a 35 -40 goal man....Briere a 20 goal man,Bourque a 20 goal man and .but Habs can't play a offense style eh? NO ,make the focus on d and cramp there style.
The Habs CAN PLAY A MORE OPEN GAME...

Patrick Roy plays a FAST PACE AGGRESSIVE STYLE...

Varlamov in his net ,not Price.
Andrei Benoit playing 20 mins a night....with 23pts...couldn't make Habs.

You goona tell me Colorado Avs defense is all star? superior to Montreal? yet Avs sit with 91 pts and ahead of Blackhawks.


Colorado Defence

Tyson Barrie
Andre Benoit
Nate Guenin
Jan Hejda
Nick Holden
Matt Hunwick
Erik Johnson
Cory Sarich
Karl Stollery
Ryan Wilson



Bottom line is,Roy is bringing the BEST OUT OF HIS PLAYERS,NOT TELLING them THERE THERE ALL GRINDERS....

 

[Milhouse40]

The most important factor in hockey, whatever the system you choose to play is:
PUCK-POSSESSION

Kings: Puck-possession team
Hawks: Puck-possession team
Bruins: Puck-possession team
St-Louis: Puck-possession team

Team Canada showed us how hard is was to score against them while they were having the puck-possession 80% of tha game. Don't need to play defense while having the puck.

This is for me the big difference with the system Therrien is now using.
We don't control the puck anymore like we did in the first part of this season and last year.

Of course, when you have the puck, you'll get hit, you'll have to skate faster to keep it and you'll need to go hard on boards battles.

Some players can do that...and they produce well in that system.....some players can't handled that kind of game and they didn't look so good in that system either.

We were a puck-possession team.....now we're a dump-and-chase, passive system where we don't control the puck..

 

[Big Lurk]

Who cares if we sign Briere, he's only a 'stop gap'.
Desharnais is a fine contract at 3.5/4yrs - he's earning his keep.
Gallagher is a hardnosed player.
Gionta is a leader, he has bucketfuls of heart.
Plekanec is a solid two way player.
etc.

Apparently team make-up doesn't matter at all to Habs management or coaching or fans.

forgot the

 

[RC51]

the habs system? well to truly understand this we must go back a few years. at the big lockout the NHL was to change a lot of things. BIG promises about getting the games to open up, new rules new rule and more new rules. It was clearly pointed out by the NHL and the NHL told the teams to build teams with the new NHL in mind. Now we go back to the Habs, since the NHL was to change, size was not to be the first choice, speed and skill was to take over the NHL. Some teams did not believe all this and loaded up on BIG PLAYERS. Well the new NHL lasted about 6 months and the REFS went right back to the OLD NHL. Worse, the playoffs were wide open for free smash hits all over the place. The BIG problem is that is the Habs believed the NHL and following the lockout rebuilt the team ( Gainey) for smaller but speed players. Once commited to this, contracts were signed and the Habs and a few other team were totally skrewed for years. Once the team did not win nobody wanted to come to play for the Habs, more bad news. Today we have the result, Habs need to get bigger, the rebuild is well underway but still needs 2 years. You just can't rush this, nobody will just trade you top line BIG top forwards. They have become the HOT asset adding to the Habs slow rebuild. Now the new system? the new system is MB and his plan. It's starts right their and we all HAVE TO WAIT the 2 extra years for him to FIX THE PROBLEM.
All this talk about , fire MB, fire MB, fire 1/2 the players, fire Molson, fire the Hockey Gods, is just frustration. If you want to blame, blame the right thing. The NHL is to blame, they promises one thing and then went right back to the old ways, the refs in the playoffs let teams get away with the same old stuff. Habs built the wrong team and the wrong prospect pool. Timmons has been given full support since MB took over and size has become the new picks. Prospects take 3-4 years minimum to get to the Habs. Tinordi now Beaulieu next and in more the year next, add the fact that contracts will finally end and open up spots for MB to BUY size things will change. Then MT will have very different assets to work with.

 

[Monctonscout]

The most important factor in hockey, whatever the system you choose to play is:
PUCK-POSSESSION

Kings: Puck-possession team
Hawks: Puck-possession team
Bruins: Puck-possession team
St-Louis: Puck-possession team

Team Canada showed us how hard is was to score against them while they were having the puck-possession 80% of tha game. Don't need to play defense while having the puck.

This is for me the big difference with the system Therrien is now using.
We don't control the puck anymore like we did in the first part of this season and last year.

Of course, when you have the puck, you'll get hit, you'll have to skate faster to keep it and you'll need to go hard on boards battles.

Some players can do that...and they produce well in that system.....some players can't handled that kind of game and they didn't look so good in that system either.

We were a puck-possession team.....now we're a dump-and-chase, passive system where we don't control the puck..

LA St.Louis and Boston are more known as bigger, grinding teams, they dump they puck a lot.

 

[Habaneros]

hey RC51,

It's simpler than that....Jacques Martin was dump and chase system when he coached Ottawa....continued it with Panthers...and then with Habs ?never changed....Oh ya ,dump and chase with small players but as Pierre Gauthier said they got BIG HEARTS....Martin fired after 192 games...


Therrien SAME THING.......never changed.....Pens fans complained about DUMP AND CHASE....player being misused used etc.....and here we got Habs fans who most all had enough less than 120 games as our coach..why? same as Martin's system.We all seen how that worked.

It was supposed to changed when we fired Martin, and his dump and chase D system.. all they did was rehire his CLONE.

Martin under Habs avg 2.42 goal per game...Therrien avg 2.42 goals per game.....Habs 5 on 5 scoring 21 to 28th under Martin....Therrien Habs are 29th in 5 on 5 scoring......Same coach"defensive strategists"


Mark my words.....next year if Therrien is here,this team is going for a LOTTO PICK......but as Jacques Martin said, hey i got you Galchenyuk eh?

The truth is we got no idea how good this group is!
As there forced to focus on d .....forget the fancy stuff...etc

Give this same team to Roy with his aggressive attack FAST PACE style.....i bet you there not 29th in 5 on 5 scoring or sitting with 167 goals....or 77 pts....


Fact is the game changed,but Martin and Therrien never adapted....
Martin got canned after just 192 games .....it is not 1998-2000 any more...and why Therrien won't last any longer than Martin did.For Habs fan it's ground hog day ..

Ken Hitchcock learns to change with the times - The Globe and Mail
www.theglobeandmail.com › Sports › Hockey
Feb 8, 2012 - White-haired, and today a shadow of his former rotund self, he has been ... The old Ken Hitchcock would have boiled him alive in the hot tub

 

[Kriss E]

LA St.Louis and Boston are more known as bigger, grinding teams, they dump they puck a lot.

No they don't dump the puck a lot, and most importantly, they don't do it uselessly.