The Management Thread | Part Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers

[bandwagonesque]

I honestly can't believe I took the bait and now we are re-hashing the "prospect Pool Cup" rankings for the bazillionth time.

My point has nothing to do with where their "prospect pool" is "ranked" which is not a thing.

My point was that the Canucks are not in a fantastic shape for a new GM taking over today. Much worse than 2014 IMO.

You said something you were aware wasn't true. That isn't anyone else's fault.

 

[xtra]

Come next week when it all changes I’m certain the people will not be making excuses for why we fell...

 

[Melvin]

You said something you were aware wasn't true. That isn't anyone else's fault.

Ad hominem fallacy yet again.

I stand by what I said. Feel free to make a counter argument instead of attacking me.

 

[xtra]

You said something you were aware wasn't true. That isn't anyone else's fault.

same as you saying that miller and petersson would get more than all the tradeable veterans from 2014 would get.

 

[CantStoptheBrock]

Come next week when it all changes I’m certain the people will not be making excuses for why we fell...

Prospect pool rankings mean little. Organizational rankings as PoM posted above clearly mean more, where we are ranked 3rd. The 2020 draft looks pretty weak to me after the top-10 are so. I'm not sure it'll have much impact on organization rankings except for perhaps a few teams. But keep looking for ways to put down the team you're a fan of.

 

[bandwagonesque]

Ad hominem fallacy yet again.

I stand by what I said. Feel free to make a counter argument instead of attacking me.

You say you were "baited" into an argument about the prospect pool when in fact you made a statement about it -- that it's weak and by implication worse than what the team had in 2014 -- that made little sense and then were asked to defend that statement. What exactly are you complaining about?

 

[Melvin]

You say you were "baited" into an argument about the prospect pool when in fact you made a statement about it -- that it's weak and by implication worse than what the team had in 2014 -- that made little sense and then were asked to defend that statement. What exactly are you complaining about?

1. I made no statement about the prospect pool. None whatsoever. I have been very consistent in 3 years here of not giving two f***s about the "prospect pool." I said they had nothing on the farm and you moved the goal posts from the farm to the "prospect pool" and made some vague allusions to some lists that I don't care about to re-ignite this stupid debate about "prospect pool rankings" that has nothing to do with anything.

2. I never said the "prospect poo;l" was "worse than what the team had in 2014." I said as a GM I'd rather take over the 2014 team than the 2020 team. I stand by this statement. I said this because, as I said, the team currently has a lot of roster holes to fill, not very much cap space, no help on the farm and no draft picks this year to add more top ELC talent. The 2014 team by contrast had a lot more flexibility.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Actually that’s a good poll question: Take what you have now with Benning employed, or reset the clock back to 2014 with a GM of your choice?

 

[4Twenty]

The team Benning inherited was an AHL finalist the year he arrived. Not sure if the AHL will run next season but I highly doubt Utica is a favourite. They weren’t great this year and had to have their own $3.3m NHLer down their and the AHL leading scorer to have them where they were.

I think young superstars are worth a lot and we’ve got two and they’re what raise the Canucks u23 stature Not their abundance of quality.

I’d rather start with the superstars than what Benning did but the job this offseason and next is massive and probably tougher to navigate than what Benning inherited. Benning wasted a generation of picks on an age gap meant to be the ones supporting his young core. All we’ve got of the age gap is Brandon Sutter.hopefully he can navigate this phase better than the accidentally being worst in the league.

Edit. Missed the question but I answered it above. Take the superstars. In 2014 I was afraid that team would stay in iginla’s flames level mediocrity with no stars. Top of the draft talent is hard to come by and yes I’ll hear that Petey and hughes were 5 and 7 not lottery spots but that’s minor. That’s where the best chance to get those players are and the Canucks have them now. I don’t think with even C+ level management in 2014 the franchise gets 5 straight top 10 picks.

 

[CantStoptheBrock]

The team Benning inherited was an AHL finalist the year he arrived. Not sure if the AHL will run next season but I highly doubt Utica is a favourite. They weren’t great this year and had to have their own $3.3m NHLer down their and the AHL leading scorer to have them where they were.

A record of 34 wins and 22 losses is "not great"? Certainly, it would seem like the team was an apocalypse from reading the Utica Comets thread, but they were still a top-10 team.

And the Comets were an AHL finalist in Benning's first year, helped in large part by acquisitions like Baertschi, Sanguinetti and even Clendening. Though that team was pretty much all Markstrom.

That Comets team also goes to show how "farm team" strength is a bit of a bizarre place to start an evaluation of a team's organizational strength. Calder Cup finalists and not a single NHL player produced still playing today except Markstrom.

 

[xtra]

Prospect pool rankings mean little. Organizational rankings as PoM posted above clearly mean more, where we are ranked 3rd. The 2020 draft looks pretty weak to me after the top-10 are so. I'm not sure it'll have much impact on organization rankings except for perhaps a few teams. But keep looking for ways to put down the team you're a fan of.

why is it at 23? Why not 25? Heck most players don’t hit their prime until 25-27 so why not there?

23 is such an arbitrary number it eliminates McDavid and draisitl in a comparison and guess what they are gonna be an obstacle for years to come

 

[I am toxic]

I would imagine that by next week our prospect ranking will plummet

I am sure whomever posted the current ranking will post the updated ranking as soon as it is available, and I look forward to the reasoned and evidence-based discussion that HFCanucks is renowned for and enviously looked upon by lesser forums.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

Actually that’s a good poll question: Take what you have now with Benning employed, or reset the clock back to 2014 with a GM of your choice?

Do it.

 

[Canucks1096]

why is it at 23? Why not 25? Heck most players don’t hit their prime until 25-27 so why not there?

23 is such an arbitrary number it eliminates McDavid and draisitl in a comparison and guess what they are gonna be an obstacle for years to come

It was actually 22 and under as of Sept 15. They looked at every draft pick from 2016 to 2019. They need to pick a cut off age. The main point of these articles are usually to determine which team has the best future in the long term. By age 25 to 27, you only have a few more years left in your prime so that kind of defeat the purpose of the article

Have a great night

 

[Melvin]

why is it at 23? Why not 25? Heck most players don’t hit their prime until 25-27 so why not there?

23 is such an arbitrary number it eliminates McDavid and draisitl in a comparison and guess what they are gonna be an obstacle for years to come

Contrary to popular opinion most research has shown that prime is more like 23-25

 

[Zaddy91]

No cap space, no draft picks, and what solid farm system? The team has virtually nothing in the farm. The roster is overloaded with unmovable veteran junk and the star players are about to come off their ELC requiring huge raises. It's far from a fantastic situation. I would *much* rather take over the 2014 team which has way more flexibility.

lol ya imagine being the 2014 Oilers or Leafs. ez clap 3 cups by now.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Edit. Missed the question but I answered it above. Take the superstars. In 2014 I was afraid that team would stay in iginla’s flames level mediocrity with no stars. Top of the draft talent is hard to come by and yes I’ll hear that Petey and hughes were 5 and 7 not lottery spots but that’s minor. That’s where the best chance to get those players are and the Canucks have them now. I don’t think with even C+ level management in 2014 the franchise gets 5 straight top 10 picks.

Do it.

There would have to be a few caveats. As 420Canuck mentions, even middling management probably takes them out of 5 straight top10 picks. And so, the picks would have to be locked and it would have to be assumed that the incoming manager is intentionally gutting the team to try and tank. A lot of variables.

After some thought, I will post the poll.

 

[xtra]

There would have to be a few caveats. As 420Canuck mentions, even middling management probably takes them out of 5 straight top10 picks. And so, the picks would have to be locked and it would have to be assumed that the incoming manager is intentionally gutting the team to try and tank. A lot of variables.

After some thought, I will post the poll.

Another caveat is do we know how players turn out or for example do we have to use our choices from the so you think you can draft threads?

 

[timw33]

"the briesboises, the chatfields, the cassels'..."

 

[JumpierPegasus]

Chatfield absolutely looks like he's ready to play

Regularly in the ECHL

 

[Hockeyphysio]

Chatfield is not and never will be ready to play.

 

[timw33]

This guy loves to trade for draft picks when they are their absolute zenith of their value.

 

[Hansen]

"the briesboises, the chatfields, the cassels'..."

How on earth is Brogan Rafferty not seen as our most NHL ready d prospect. Why does this team despise offensive dmen

 

[xtra]

"the briesboises, the chatfields, the cassels'..."

How is a guy you couldn’t even play 7 mins in a playoff game suddenly ready to play in the NHL?


For reference a 19 year old corrado was playing 13 mins a night in 2012 on our defence in the playoffs in 2012 and he wasn’t ready

 

[VanillaCoke]

Imagine believing this guy and his crack pot team of geniuses is going to build a cup contender..