The Management Thread | Part Infinity Welcomes Careful Drivers

[Peter10]

We have nothing in the farm..apparently
https://thehockeywriters.com/nhl-farm-system-rankings/

So the Hockey Writers can now be considered a legitimate source when discussing with you?

https://thehockeywriters.com/sabres-need-to-hire-judd-brackett/

In 2017, Brackett pushed hard for Elias Pettersson as Vancouver’s pick at fifth overall, when it was widely believed GM Jim Benning wanted Cody Glass. One scout told The Hockey News that “my understanding is that Pettersson was never a guy Benning wanted.”

 

[m9]

I would imagine that by next week our prospect ranking will plummet

Of course - it's extremely disingenuous to use a prospect pool ranking that is going to crater in 3 days. It's like me buying a TV on my credit card and then bragging how much extra cash I've got.

 

[I am toxic]

Petard.

Hoisted.

PoM.

 

[Melvin]

lmffao that "hockey writers" article.

The Canucks are very deep on the backend, with Olli Juolevi, Toni Utunen, and Jack Rathbone also looking like NHL defenders.

 

[xtra]

Trading one of them plus JT Miller would probably return more than trading every single movable veteran player on the 2014 team.

now considering players who have NTC have been moved in the past you do realize your statement means you think petersson and miller trade today would gather more than:

1st round pick
Conditional first
Top 6 center (bonino)
Top 6 dman
3 second round picks
Multiple prospects
Plus the value of an hamhuis, Tanev, henrik, Daniel (who were never approached about waiving)

in addition I left out edler cause that’s a can of worms about waiving we don’t need to go down

Or do you want to retract that hyperbole

 

[wetcoast]

I would imagine that by next week our prospect ranking will plummet

That's a huge part of the equation right now and seriously outside of Podkolzin, does anyone project into a possible star player right now in our system.

 

[bandwagonesque]

So the Hockey Writers can now be considered a legitimate source when discussing with you?

https://thehockeywriters.com/sabres-need-to-hire-judd-brackett/

Pretty much every source, including The Athletic, Sporting News, and Dobberpropects, has the Canucks' pool in their top-10. And missing a 1st and 2nd in the upcoming draft isn't likely to drop them out of the top half.

 

[MS]

Jim is a hardworking and intelligent man who after having a promising NHL career derailed due to injuries steadily worked his way up from amateur scout (5 years) to director of amateur scouting (6 years) to assistant GM on a Stanley Cup winning squad (8 years) to finally an NHL GM after two decades of hockey experience. He experienced high degrees of success at every step of his career, including this one. I think you need to rethink your usage of the word nepotism, and show some respect.

Jim Benning is an abject idiot who had NHL teams in 'Philedelphia' and 'Pittsburg' on his whiteboard who (by his own admission) had his dad get him his first scouting job, and then was promoted into an executive position by his brother's college roommate.

 

[xtra]

lmffao that "hockey writers" article.

I don’t know if it tops this part -

Forward Vasili Podkolzin is creative, has a great shot, and can make plays as well. He has one year left in Russia, but the prospect has elite talent in his game. He’ll run you over and score while doing it (think Ovechkin but probably less goals).


What do you mean probably less goals...way to over rate podz. I love podz but to put him in the same breath as ovechkin is a joke. Maybe a more 2 way svenchikov (but judging a Russian prospect defensive game is a bit hard)

 

[xtra]

Pretty much every source, including The Athletic, Sporting News, and Dobberpropects, has the Canucks' pool in their top-10. And missing a 1st and 2nd in the upcoming draft isn't likely to drop them out of the top half.

I’ll take that bet.... your saying after the next draft the canucks are still gonna be top 15 in prospect rankings....that’s crazy

 

[MS]

I don’t know if it tops this part -

Forward Vasili Podkolzin is creative, has a great shot, and can make plays as well. He has one year left in Russia, but the prospect has elite talent in his game. He’ll run you over and score while doing it (think Ovechkin but probably less goals).


What do you mean probably less goals...way to over rate podz. I love podz but to put him in the same breath as ovechkin is a joke. Maybe a more 2 way svenchikov (but judging a Russian prospect defensive game is a bit hard)

That quote makes it pretty obvious that this article is written by someone in about grade 8.

 

[bandwagonesque]

lmffao that "hockey writers" article.

Every single other article on the subject, many of which you've probably read, rates them as highly.

now considering players who have NTC have been moved in the past you do realize your statement means you think petersson and miller trade today would gather more than:

1st round pick
Conditional first
Top 6 center (bonino)
Top 6 dman
3 second round picks
Multiple prospects
Plus the value of an hamhuis, Tanev, henrik, Daniel (who were never approached about waiving)

in addition I left out edler cause that’s a can of worms about waiving we don’t need to go down

Or do you want to retract that hyperbole

There are too many deliberate mischaracterizations of what the assets actually were or whether it was possible to trade them for me to even address, but my answer is yes.

 

[Melvin]

Every single other article on the subject, many of which you've probably read, rates them as highly.

I went looking for something on The Athletic but didn't find anything. If there was one, it was probably written by Corey Pronman who I don't take seriously.

I don't know why we should discard credentialed reporters when giving their accounts of facts based on sources but somehow we are supposed to take seriously something as incredibly subjective as a "prospect ranking" written by random Joe nobodies with no established track record of being correct.

Believe it or not I don't really read these sorts of things as I find them almost entirely worthless, so no I haven't read any of them.

Are there any that are actually compiled with some objective criteria such as statistics?

 

[MS]

The team’s prospect pool should objectively be in the 12-15 range right now but will fall below 20 after the draft.

 

[xtra]

Every single other article on the subject, many of which you've probably read, rates them as highly.
There are too many deliberate mischaracterizations of what the assets actually were or whether it was possible to trade them for me to even address, but my answer is yes.

what did I mischaracterize:

1st round pick (kesler trade)
Conditional first (Hansen trade)
Top 6 center (bonino)
Top 6 dman (sbisa)
2 second round picks ( bieksa, garrisson, *)
Multiple prospects (goldobin,Dahlen)

Plus the value of an hamhuis, Tanev, henrik, Daniel (who were never approached about waiving)

Tanev alone who at 25 was considered one of the best young defensive dmen in the league would have gotten a huge package

* I did add an extra second there cause I thought burrows got Dahlen and a second but where else did I mis characterize it?

 

[Melvin]

The team’s prospect pool should objectively be in the 12-15 range right now but will fall below 20 after the draft.

The only thing I could find in The Athletic was from January which still included Madden and had them in 13. That seems reasonable. Take out Madden and then the 2020 draft and yeah, not a great system for a team that has been bad for as long as the Canucks.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

So the Hockey Writers can now be considered a legitimate source when discussing with you?

https://thehockeywriters.com/sabres-need-to-hire-judd-brackett/

The Hockey Writers are a bunch of different writers...Is one unnamed scout a legitimate source?..

 

[CantStoptheBrock]

Jim Benning is an abject idiot who had NHL teams in 'Philedelphia' and 'Pittsburg' on his whiteboard who (by his own admission) had his dad get him his first scouting job, and then was promoted into an executive position by his brother's college roommate.

Opinion: Judging a person on their spelling and grammar reveals more about you than it does about them

A proficient grasp of matters typographical says as much about a person’s intelligence as the colour of their hair: absolutely naught

Jim may have initially got his foot in the door with some help from his dad, but he clearly worked his way up through the industry for over 20 years before being given the GM reins, and was promoted because he was successful at every stage. Your understanding of "nepotism" could use some work.

 

[Pavel96]

This article makes Benning sound so bad lol. I thought drafting Petterson was like 50% of why he is still employed.
https://www.si.com/hockey/news/this...t-might-end-up-being-vancouvers-judd-brackett

'Brackett was ostensibly in charge of the draft, but it doesn't sound like he always had the easiest time convincing his boss to make certain choices. Thankfully for Canucks fans, Brackett has prevailed more often than not - particularly at the 2017 draft when a skinny Swede was available early.
"My understanding," said the scout, "is that Pettersson was never a guy Benning wanted."
This was echoed by other sources and keep in mind, Pettersson wasn't universally ranked as high as the No. 5 slot the Canucks picked him at. '

I wonder why a senior writer at the Hockey News, who writes on the draft across the league, would blatantly make this stuff up and restate it multiple times- just to make Benning look bad? Even weirder he wrote an article a month ago and stated "it is clear that something impressive is brewing with the organization". So it's not like he has a bias against the Canucks.

How amazing would that be if your "star" GM argued (and lost) against drafting a future franchise center with an exec he just let walk.

And clearly it's not one scout he refers to but 'other sources' and 'multiple sources' are mentioned throughout the article.

 

[Peter10]

The Hockey Writers are a bunch of different writers...Is one unnamed scout a legitimate source?..

So then why should anyone take their prospect ranking seriously? Why is Josh Bell an authority we should trust with his ranking?

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Q...When a reporter prefaces every viewpoint with "I'm not really sure" or "Its tough for me to know"...or ending his viewpoints with "I'm hearing from there people that that's not quite the case" or "I cant say for certainty"..Also, claiming he also heard the complete opposite 'on what he thought' was going on....How are we to receive this kind of report?

A..Its completely irrelevant whether this reporter confirms or denies anything..the confirm or deny sidebars mean nothing..All that he is saying has to be considered as facts.

Q..With so much clickbait , and misinformation about the team..How seriously should we take lower level commentators with podcasts that are popping up all the time?..How accurate are their claims, and where do they source their information from..?

A...These podcasters and fringe reporters dont have to reveal their sources...The same way like a nationally known reporter like Elliotte Freidman would have to.(even though nationally, he's earned the level of trust and respect off a hockey insider)..There is no difference in reputation..but facts can be cherrypicked from these podcasts.

Q...Why dont these allegations , and stories that start and end with 'I'm not sure'..and podcast
'takes',.. ever make it to prime time radio or mainstream sports reporters..?


A..Ummm..not sure?

 

[Melvin]

I honestly can't believe I took the bait and now we are re-hashing the "prospect Pool Cup" rankings for the bazillionth time.

My point has nothing to do with where their "prospect pool" is "ranked" which is not a thing.

My point was that the Canucks are not in a fantastic shape for a new GM taking over today. Much worse than 2014 IMO.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

So then why should anyone take their prospect ranking seriously? Why is Josh Bell an authority we should trust with his ranking?

Take it or leave ..I dont care..Its the most recent prospect pool ranking available..Do you have another option?

 

[Catamarca Livin]

The team’s prospect pool should objectively be in the 12-15 range right now but will fall below 20 after the draft.

The worst thing that happened to Canuck prospect pool was Hughes making Nhl already. We should have kept him in college like Makar and we would have kept a top 5 prospect pool. If we kept Petterson in Europe we would be number 1. Or almost as good should have drafted Valardi. Sucks, we need more Juolevi type picks please. Stupid Benning does not even know how to get the best prospect pool. What is the name of that trophy again? I believe L.A. won it last year without having one game changing prospect.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The worst thing that happened to Canuck prospect pool was Hughes making Nhl already. We should have kept him in college like Makar and we would have kept a top 5 prospect pool. If we kept Petterson in Europe we would be number 1. Or almost as good should have drafted Valardi. Sucks, we need more Juolevi type picks please. Stupid Benning does not even know how to get the best prospect pool. What is the name of that trophy again? I believe L.A. won it last year without having one game changing prospect.

We are ranked 3rd on organizational rankings by the Athletic...most of our prospects have just graduated,

2020 NHL organizational rankings: No. 3 Vancouver Canucks