The Management Thread | Cap sells, but who's buying?
- Thread starter Mr. Canucklehead
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- Aug 28, 2011
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- Jan 23, 2010
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I just can't stand that this losing organization chose to completely max out their cap space 15 minutes into free agency. Again. It's so frustrating to not really have the ability to even do much with this team that clearly desperately needs major changes.
I'm with Rutherford when he comes out so frustrated in the media, but I really hope he owns his share of the blame here in the position the team is in.
I'm with Rutherford when he comes out so frustrated in the media, but I really hope he owns his share of the blame here in the position the team is in.
Wandering Cynic
Registered User
The Canucks having cap space is even more dangerous at this point. I'm sure the team would've signed Klingberg to a long term deal if they had more cap room.
The team isn't willing to rebuild. Until that happens, the team will just move bad contracts to add more bad contracts.
- Jan 23, 2010
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Unfortunately that may be true. For now I'm holding JR at his word that they do want to do the right things going forward, but the actions not backing up his words is getting a bit tiring as a fan.
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It’s the way this idiot owner operates in the business world
He spends big money to get what he wants because he won’t develop what he wants
He tried to build a restaurant group, failed, so went out with a blank check to the biggest restauranteur in the city and said here…. Now gimme
I think explaining to him the concept of having cap space and not spending money to make the team better would make his mind explode.
“Not spending money to become better????? Sounds like witchcraft”
Peter Griffin
Registered User
I think they just got caught with their pants down on not being able to move out forwards that they may have figured they'd have an easier time moving. The Mikheyev signing isn't something I'd fault them for, he's been great and has filled a big need. Not moving at least one of Boeser/Garland/Pearson however is something they should be blamed for, but if they're able to move one of them this off-season when the cap is expected to rebound, maybe not all is lost longterm.
theguardianII
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- Jan 30, 2020
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Just thought I would use "the way back machine" Mr. Peabody.
One of the best teams of all time, those Montreal teams of the late 70's
Many HoFer's and all remembered as Canadiens Robinson, Lafleur, Mahovlich, Shutt, Savard, on and on. What fans don't realize these players all finished their careers on other teams, in Montreal it was TEAM first.
Vancouver strangled themselves by converting the Canucks to the Sedins, not the Sedins fault but using the excuse that they had a clause is crap because it didn't bother the then management asking all other players with a clause to move and all except Edler did waive. The Sedins were never asked, IMO this was a failure of management.
IF the Sedins were traded with 16 games left in the season this team would have gotten a fantastic return in picks and prospects. They were still very effective and would have been an instant 2nd line and 1rst PP and could play with anyone on any team they went to, almost a guaranteed cup to any contending team trading for them. Even if they signed with that team for another year they would always be Canucks.
16 games. How that would/could have changed the outcome of the last 7 years but it didn't happen and we do know what the result was, 8 years in the desert, a team with only two effective players under 25 yrs old and no others.
That is what happens when the player becomes more important than the team and the management become salesmen instead of hockey people.
IMO this group is beyond the tipping point, they have no depth, no prospects per se and not enough draft picks all while being over the cap maximum. An untenable position to work from.
There is going to be pain but isn't watching 5 or 6 young and upcoming star players just as enjoyable as watching two? With the same results but a more refined expectation of future success. It would be the same as all the hope bestowed upon prospects not playing on the team in the past only now those prospects are on the ice.
If the word rebuild has some ethereal meaning to hockey exec's then call it building from the bottom up and replacing failed pieces of the puzzle that didn't fit.
The fit has to be age and cap hit measured by success and success can be measured many ways when a team is very young. As can be seen now youth doesn't need to have their hands held out of the box.
A team in the cap era has to use all it's assets and having an owner that will spend the type of money ours has is a big chip in the game. Benning never understood that, he felt fans were stupid and spending to the cap and over meant the team was good or were just barely missing the playoffs, a contender because no team would spend like he did if the team was not good.
JR knows building from the bottom up does take time but even he never had an owner willing to spend like Aquilini before so maybe his lack of speed in doing what is necessary is tainted by the cheap owners he has had before.
Pretty sure the owner(s) have said something like, "do whatever it takes to get this team to a cup/playoffs" and management is taking that as NOW whereas it has been shown he/they have shown immense patience.
Francesco wants his Dad to see a cup here before he dies
It is time to consider time itself. Don't just "build" for now but also ask where is the team in 5 years
Build from the back out, "the team that wins the Vezina wins the cup" - Bowan, that was true in the 70's and 80's but not so much now but defence is still THE major part.
Detroit under Bowman won many cups without super star goalies, Pittsburgh has done it to, and Chicago. All had Scotty influence. Even Buffalo but they did have Hasak. Colorado is doing it now.
The team will have to wait until some teams get cap space, the closer to the TDL the more they have BUT; there are teams that have LTIR space and are in win now windows. Edmonton might need a Kane replacement, Washington a Backstrom if he goes the same as all other NHL players that have had that operation they have Ovy, they are a team where the player might surpass the team, Toronto or Ottawa might decide that Demko is a big upgrade and can't wait too long, NYI looking for scoring but Lamer will wait awhile yet, there are others.
Do what is best for the team in 5 years that makes them stronger then than now, success in the meantime is a bonus.
But Alvin and the Chipmunks better not wait to get inline behind the rest, better to be at the front of the train rather than the caboose
One of the best teams of all time, those Montreal teams of the late 70's
Many HoFer's and all remembered as Canadiens Robinson, Lafleur, Mahovlich, Shutt, Savard, on and on. What fans don't realize these players all finished their careers on other teams, in Montreal it was TEAM first.
Vancouver strangled themselves by converting the Canucks to the Sedins, not the Sedins fault but using the excuse that they had a clause is crap because it didn't bother the then management asking all other players with a clause to move and all except Edler did waive. The Sedins were never asked, IMO this was a failure of management.
IF the Sedins were traded with 16 games left in the season this team would have gotten a fantastic return in picks and prospects. They were still very effective and would have been an instant 2nd line and 1rst PP and could play with anyone on any team they went to, almost a guaranteed cup to any contending team trading for them. Even if they signed with that team for another year they would always be Canucks.
16 games. How that would/could have changed the outcome of the last 7 years but it didn't happen and we do know what the result was, 8 years in the desert, a team with only two effective players under 25 yrs old and no others.
That is what happens when the player becomes more important than the team and the management become salesmen instead of hockey people.
IMO this group is beyond the tipping point, they have no depth, no prospects per se and not enough draft picks all while being over the cap maximum. An untenable position to work from.
There is going to be pain but isn't watching 5 or 6 young and upcoming star players just as enjoyable as watching two? With the same results but a more refined expectation of future success. It would be the same as all the hope bestowed upon prospects not playing on the team in the past only now those prospects are on the ice.
If the word rebuild has some ethereal meaning to hockey exec's then call it building from the bottom up and replacing failed pieces of the puzzle that didn't fit.
The fit has to be age and cap hit measured by success and success can be measured many ways when a team is very young. As can be seen now youth doesn't need to have their hands held out of the box.
A team in the cap era has to use all it's assets and having an owner that will spend the type of money ours has is a big chip in the game. Benning never understood that, he felt fans were stupid and spending to the cap and over meant the team was good or were just barely missing the playoffs, a contender because no team would spend like he did if the team was not good.
JR knows building from the bottom up does take time but even he never had an owner willing to spend like Aquilini before so maybe his lack of speed in doing what is necessary is tainted by the cheap owners he has had before.
Pretty sure the owner(s) have said something like, "do whatever it takes to get this team to a cup/playoffs" and management is taking that as NOW whereas it has been shown he/they have shown immense patience.
Francesco wants his Dad to see a cup here before he dies
It is time to consider time itself. Don't just "build" for now but also ask where is the team in 5 years
Build from the back out, "the team that wins the Vezina wins the cup" - Bowan, that was true in the 70's and 80's but not so much now but defence is still THE major part.
Detroit under Bowman won many cups without super star goalies, Pittsburgh has done it to, and Chicago. All had Scotty influence. Even Buffalo but they did have Hasak. Colorado is doing it now.
The team will have to wait until some teams get cap space, the closer to the TDL the more they have BUT; there are teams that have LTIR space and are in win now windows. Edmonton might need a Kane replacement, Washington a Backstrom if he goes the same as all other NHL players that have had that operation they have Ovy, they are a team where the player might surpass the team, Toronto or Ottawa might decide that Demko is a big upgrade and can't wait too long, NYI looking for scoring but Lamer will wait awhile yet, there are others.
Do what is best for the team in 5 years that makes them stronger then than now, success in the meantime is a bonus.
But Alvin and the Chipmunks better not wait to get inline behind the rest, better to be at the front of the train rather than the caboose
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- Aug 28, 2011
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The climate changed in the NHL, with GMs now heavily realizing the implications of the cap and going for value instead of brand names. This is why you are seeing teams taking every opportunity to lock up RFA's to long-term deals. Forwards like Niederreiter, Kessel, Stastny and Strome were signed for dirt cheap, respective to their output.
The 2022-2023 Vancouver Canucks are probably in the worst position an NHL franchise has been in the cap-era. So many unmovable guys and NHL GMs are not going to bite on our crap.
Mikaylev has been an ok signing but a middle 6 winger near 5mil for term will not have any value on the open market. That was added to Garland, Boeser, Pearson and Miller. We have near 27.5 mil locked up in 5 wingers. Unfortunately, most of these guys are not drivers and mere complimentary pieces to a winning team signed to overinflated contracts. You could potentially take advantage of a Chuck Fletcher but man, my expectations are we have to strap picks or assets to shed these contracts.
I really think the December 2021-January 2022 window presented this team with an opportunity to shed these guys for assets. A huge missed opportunity driven by a freak winning streak.
PuckMunchkin
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VanillaCoke
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- Oct 30, 2013
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He hasnt. Ppl just like to make excuses for him, and his contract, because skates fast and pk.
His stone hands have always and will always exist.
TruGr1t
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- Jun 26, 2003
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He's been fine. Anyone that defends that contract can't see the forest for the trees, though. In the grand scheme of the cap and organizational structure it was stupid given what else they had planned in terms of sunk salary and salary outlay. Totally unnecessary sacrifice of much-needed cap flexibility and as everyone can clearly see ... Mikheyev is not a difference maker and certainly not going to make a difference in terms of how shit this team is generally.
I think he honestly thought he’d be able to ditch contracts quicker I think his comments about some guys not being movable pretty much says it all. The biggest mistake they made was signing Boeser.
Need to burn this thing to the ground but can’t because we have so many immovable contracts. That’s the definition of purgatory. No wonder JR looks/sounds flustered.
I have much more faith that we can move Mikheyev for a pick at the deadline than Boeser.
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
Yeah. He has been fine.
He has a couple of lucky points.
His skating is not there right now and that will probably improve as his knee recovers.
He is dead weight on the Petey Kuzmenko line. They cant play their game with someone who does not have the IQ or the hands to be part of a sustained pressure on the oZone.
- Aug 28, 2011
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He's been one of our better wingers 5v5 and has scored 8 pts in 11 games.
I would have loved the signing if it was a direct 1 for 1 replacement for a departing Boeser. A 40-50pt guy that can handle his own 5v5 and play the PK?
Ideally you hope to draft, sign or develop these guys to maximize value on their ELC but I have zero issue if he was a Boeser replacement.
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
Overpaid mid 6er with a 4 year contract whose knee is busted.
Will be along line of suitors for him.
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TruGr1t
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- Jun 26, 2003
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Maybe, I don't think he's worth much of anything on that contract, but I don't think you'd necessarily have to add. I suspect you'd be taking some salary back.
Assuming you don't want basically anything of value back, you may be able to just straight-up ditch both salaries since the contracts aren't prohibitively long.
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
I agree that he has 8 points in 11 games.
He hasnt been good on the PK or played well so far.
I didn’t say it would be a particularly long list I said i have more faith in the canucks ability to move him over Boeser at the deadline. Boeser we are stuck with until that contract runs into it’s last year or he hits waivers, I think.Overpaid mid 6er with a 4 year contract whose knee is busted.
Will be along line of suitors for him.
I would love to be proven wrong but in my opinion that only hastens Boeser’s departure outta vancouver. If he goes on a heater he’s trade bate!
VanillaCoke
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- Oct 30, 2013
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This is rose coloured glasses. Hes overpaid and was a hugely unnecessary signing on day one of ufa, even if he fills a need.
He always looks good but doesn't move the needle, never has, never will.
He's got pts here playing up the lineup and hasn't been trash by any means, but he doesn't get better up the lineup, he doesn't have the skills to be a top 6 winger. They tried that in Toronto for years and it looked the same, he's a great 3rd line, pker and speed guy but cant finish the chances he creates or play with high IQ skill players, he's north south only with avg hands at best.
Lazar or dries in those mins gets you the same production for sub 1M, so you're paying 4M for pk ability and fast skating..
Theres a reason every single leaf fan laughed at us, leafs fans...
They wanted to keep him for good reason, but nowhere near 4x5M wanted to keep him.
Edit. Also the notion that Mikheyev - 4.8M is totally fine and great, but boeser for 2M more and a shorter contract is wavier wire worthless trash is one of the most absurd things on this board.
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PuckMunchkin
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- Aug 28, 2011
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A PK is the sum of the whole parts. Mikaylev's strength in Toronto was racing to lose pucks and putting pressure on the points. Right now, our PK is massively being let down by our defense that cannot disrupt the flow down low which is leading to a very scrambley and disjointed PK and forcing our forwards to box themselves in. Just watching the amount of cross-crease passes connecting is just infuriating. Hell, I think prime Kesler and Hansen would look just as bad on this PK.
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