Speculation: The Julien dilemma

[SPLBRUIN]

Julien's strictly a " systems " coach, not a motivator or a progressive thinker, there are far better hockey minds out there then him, this guy's been fired twice for a reason. It's time for a more modern coach, one who appreciates offense, a coach who believes in a more aggressive approach, this will lead to more PP opportunities which in this day and age of low scoring hockey can be the difference in a number of games.

 

[Absurdity]

they are all old boys net work - dineen, oates, byelsma.

Thinking outside is doing what the flyers did or when tampa went to juniors for boucher

donato in my definition is not old boys but because i'm one of the few who took neely/sweeney over jacobs/gorton i'm the contrarian

this board is self serving i just don't agree with some of you here.

1-3-1

 

[whatsbruin]

And replace him with who? That idiot in Providence?!

Was John Cooper from Tampa well known before he took over ?
I honestly do not know, but he seems to be doing okay.
Just because people on a hockey forum have not heard of a guy, or
cannot think of a potentially great hockey coach, I have to think that
people in professional hockey know a few more coaches than the posters
here.

I don't think I have seen a coaching suggestion that I haven't recognized.
Could there be a coach, in the xyz league, that has always had his team
playing well, despite the talent level, who has had several players come up
through the ranks and know what they are doing ? that people on here
have not heard of ?

 

[DKH]

1-3-1

Seguin gets to be the forechecking one. Less wear and tear. Gives Bruins 1/2 of Kane. Bruins waiting for winner of Ducks-Hawks series for third Cup in 5 years

 

[World of Wardlow]

Was John Cooper from Tampa well known before he took over ?
I honestly do not know, but he seems to be doing okay.
Just because people on a hockey forum have not heard of a guy, or
cannot think of a potentially great hockey coach, I have to think that
people in professional hockey know a few more coaches than the posters
here.

I don't think I have seen a coaching suggestion that I haven't recognized.
Could there be a coach, in the xyz league, that has always had his team
playing well, despite the talent level, who has had several players come up
through the ranks and know what they are doing ? that people on here
have not heard of ?

Sure, there could be an "unknown" coach out there that may end up being a very good coach in the long run, and turn things around. Yes, sometimes a change in that regard is good. Having said that, I don't think that is what Neely and Sweeney are looking for - a coach with limited to no-nhl experience. Then again, maybe they are.

I like Claude. He makes some terrible decisions, but who doesn't. I don't think firing him is the answer. I say give him the year to work with what he's got. And if he does not do a good enough job, then fire him.

 

[7bostonhockey*]

Is it just me or does it seem a bit disingenuous to mock and laugh at anyone that suggests anything bad about Neely with "Yeah the last 7 years have been really awful." "It's been a terrible time to be a Bruins fan the last 7 years hasn't it?" "I wish these people remembered what it was like from 95-2007" or whatever the years were but then call for firings of the GM and coaches of both the big team and the minor league team?

I mostly just sit back and enjoy the reading, so I don't want to really get too involved in the back and forth but in this case I am struggling to follow the logic behind it.

Neely just had to look pretty and smile for the over 40 crowd.. that's it,

Hes not to be held responsible ..


Even though he is supposed to ok trades and contracts or something.

And Participated in the behind the b debacle that traded top scorer in the nhl for a bag of pucks.


The fact that he thought it was a good idea at all makes my head shake.

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Just think of the cups we would have won if Claude wasnt so stubborn. Playoff series we would have won. His stubborness and unwilling to change system when needed is why things are the way they are. His coaching style is ineffective for this stage of our current team. We dont even have an identity anymore. He can move on to a team like Buffalo and help those searching for a way. Start up. We no longer fit him and he no longer fits us. He came in at a great time and now its time to move on. Did anyone expect him to be that successful with us? No.

And if we're being honest, he would have gotten fired 3 years ago if we didnt make a miracle comeback against Toronto. I appreciate what he's done here. But its time to move in a different direction. Sweeney knows it.

How absurd.

 

[TMac21]

Dan would love Coach's Corner tonight, Grapes praising Dineen saying he should be a head coach in the league.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

What you seem to be describing to me is a GM and a coach who are not in synch. If they haven't figured that out by the start of the season then yes, big trouble lies ahead. However, all outward appearances would indicate they are talking about what the strategy is going to be moving forward. I suspect that 90% of that is worked out by the first puck drop, with or without CJ at the helm, with the remaining 10% worked out 10-15 games into the season.

I am not trying to be wishy-washy or on the fence, but I truly don't care who the coach is, as long as the B's get back to a more aggressive uptempo style. If Seeeney can revamp that D and Clode can change his spots, I'm totally cool with it. I'd also be Ok if the B's don't think Clode is capable of changing and go with a guy they know will play that style.

 

[RussellmaniaKW]

Dan would love Coach's Corner tonight, Grapes praising Dineen saying he should be a head coach in the league.

hmmmm, come to think of it has anyone ever seen Dan and Grapes in the same place?

 

[Mione134]

How absurd.

That Chicago series was ours.

Kaspars Daugavins had no business playing.

 

[CJDolan]

That Chicago series was ours.

Kaspars Daugavins had no business playing.

And who's to say we would've been there without Julien?

You can play the hindsight game all the time and question the coaches moves in the playoffs, but you have to realize that the replacement coach wouldn't have been plopped into the team before game 1 of the SCF, he would've been there all season.

 

[ODAAT]

Just think of the cups we would have won if Claude wasnt so stubborn. Playoff series we would have won. His stubborness and unwilling to change system when needed is why things are the way they are. His coaching style is ineffective for this stage of our current team. We dont even have an identity anymore. He can move on to a team like Buffalo and help those searching for a way. Start up. We no longer fit him and he no longer fits us. He came in at a great time and now its time to move on. Did anyone expect him to be that successful with us? No.

And if we're being honest, he would have gotten fired 3 years ago if we didnt make a miracle comeback against Toronto. I appreciate what he's done here. But its time to move in a different direction. Sweeney knows it.

and how many cups would they have won with a different boss behind the bench?

Sorry, absolutely absurd statement

The system didn`t let the team down vs the Habs last year, players not coming close to earning their pay check did and for that team to even give the Hawks a series with the injuries to key players a few years ago was amazing alone. The system didn`t blow the series, two brutal defensive lapses in a matter of a minute did

 

[CJDolan]

and how many cups would they have won with a different boss behind the bench?

Sorry, absolutely absurd statement

The system didn`t let the team down vs the Habs last year, players not coming close to earning their pay check did and for that team to even give the Hawks a series with the injuries to key players a few years ago was amazing alone. The system didn`t blow the series, two brutal defensive lapses in a matter of a minute did

The system most definitely had a lot to do with the Montreal loss. They have figured out the system, not sure what other evidence you need other than our record against them from game 6 in 2014 though this season. Hawks I completely agree with though, can't argue with that. Couple no shows, a couple awful lapses, and the series is gone. Daugavins sure as **** shouldn't have been playing, but the only other option at that point was Soderberg, who I believe had like 2 NHL games under his belt, both in a position he was uncomfortable with.

 

[ODAAT]

The system most definitely had a lot to do with the Montreal loss. They have figured out the system, not sure what other evidence you need other than our record against them from game 6 in 2014 though this season. Hawks I completely agree with though, can't argue with that. Couple no shows, a couple awful lapses, and the series is gone. Daugavins sure as **** shouldn't have been playing, but the only other option at that point was Soderberg, who I believe had like 2 NHL games under his belt, both in a position he was uncomfortable with.

We`ll have to disagree, I think the Habs know that the Bruins struggle in two areas

a) have/had nowhere near the discipline to stay focused on executing their system against them

b) team speed, not close to being quick enough up front to have a sustained any pursuite of the puck to make the Habs move the puck too quickly giving them way too much time to move the puck

This year is not the greatest example but I saw this team, on a few occasions, execute that very system that has been successful and it still very much worked, problem was, terrible inconsistency

 

[CJDolan]

We`ll have to disagree, I think the Habs know that the Bruins struggle in two areas

a) have/had nowhere near the discipline to stay focused on executing their system against them

b) team speed, not close to being quick enough up front to have a sustained any pursuite of the puck to make the Habs move the puck too quickly giving them way too much time to move the puck

This year is not the greatest example but I saw this team, on a few occasions, execute that very system that has been successful and it still very much worked, problem was, terrible inconsistency

Your second point is exactly what I'm talking about. Team speed beats this system. Pressuring our defensemen on the forecheck beats the system. Totally agree that we suck at staying disciplined, but the Habs have certainly figured out how to beat our system. The amount of odd man rushes we have given up against that damn team in the past year is mind blowing, and they always seem to do the exact same thing in order to get them.

Habs and Capitals both wrecked us this year by playing very similar styles, and it's incredibly frustrating seeing this team keep trying to jam a square peg in a round hole against teams that know how to beat the stupid system.

 

[Man Rocket]

1-3-1

Can you imagine the Bruins playing a 1-3-1 with the Bond villain behind our bench

 

[ODAAT]

Your second point is exactly what I'm talking about. Team speed beats this system. Pressuring our defensemen on the forecheck beats the system. Totally agree that we suck at staying disciplined, but the Habs have certainly figured out how to beat our system. The amount of odd man rushes we have given up against that damn team in the past year is mind blowing, and they always seem to do the exact same thing in order to get them.

Habs and Capitals both wrecked us this year by playing very similar styles, and it's incredibly frustrating seeing this team keep trying to jam a square peg in a round hole against teams that know how to beat the stupid system.

Not sure what other defensive system you wish to have in place when you have a D who are far from fleet of foot. Most teams when playing the B`s have two options

a) use their speed to skate around the D or

b) dump and chase in which case they(opposition) will win more foot races than they lose.

I can`t stand the D-to D passing, but I see why it`s in place, because half this lineup needs a running start to get any speed going and they need the time to do it and that`s what the passing between the D does, gives them time

When you have a team where the majority of players can`t play an up tempo game due to the fact that they can`t keep up that pace, it`s incredibly limiting in what style of game you can play

We finally caught a glimpse of what speed can do with the additions of Spooner and Pasta late in the season, and when you have a D who can push the puck up ice to a forward(s) who have the ability to force a D to back in, that`s half the battle won, unfortunately, this team, IMO, has Marchand/Pasta and Spooner as the only guys who can motor, some aren`t slow but also not the kind of players that force a D to play hesitant and back

 

[World of Wardlow]

It may not look like it to some, but people are going to regret the day Julien is fired/leaves ...

 

[Roll 4 Lines]

Not sure what other defensive system you wish to have in place when you have a D who are far from fleet of foot. Most teams when playing the B`s have two options

a) use their speed to skate around the D or

b) dump and chase in which case they(opposition) will win more foot races than they lose.

I can`t stand the D-to D passing, but I see why it`s in place, because half this lineup needs a running start to get any speed going and they need the time to do it and that`s what the passing between the D does, gives them time

When you have a team where the majority of players can`t play an up tempo game due to the fact that they can`t keep up that pace, it`s incredibly limiting in what style of game you can play

We finally caught a glimpse of what speed can do with the additions of Spooner and Pasta late in the season, and when you have a D who can push the puck up ice to a forward(s) who have the ability to force a D to back in, that`s half the battle won, unfortunately, this team, IMO, has Marchand/Pasta and Spooner as the only guys who can motor, some aren`t slow but also not the kind of players that force a D to play hesitant and back

In the abstract, I'm not opposed to a D to D pass. It's sometimes the best option. The issue as I see it is the lack of motion, both from the D-men and the forwards.

Evidently Chia's No Movement Clauses pertain to on-ice as well as off.

When the Bruins gain control of the puck in their own end, all 5 guys seem to stop and stand still.

So you end up with 2 stationary D-men playing catch, while 2 forwards stand still along the boards in the neutral zone, and the Center is the only one with any motion at all, but not enough.

Then the D, from a stand-still tries a pass to the Center, who's only options are to tip it to a stationary forward, or dump it in.

If the D men stayed in motion, and the Center came back a little lower, and the forwards played a little criss-cross in the neutral zone, at least there'd be motion, if not exactly high-speed, and the options would multiply.

Least it seems this way to me.

 

[DKH]

hmmmm, come to think of it has anyone ever seen Dan and Grapes in the same place?

My folks knew him not kidding he has been over the house. From what I remember he was as normal and kind as they come - we are talking 60's and 70's.

 

[Dellstrom]

Julien is one of the best coaches in Bruins history. I think that's pretty obvious. But everything has a shelf life.

His system was perfect for this team... We had the best defensive defenseman of this generation, two of the best goalies of this generation, and the best defensive forward. We always had a blend of physical and offensive players to go with that core group of players. We were tough to play against. We'd either beat you with defensive genius, or blow you out of the water with our offense. Of course they had their flaws but we were a consistent threat in the playoffs, no one wanted to play us.

But it's not right to use what Julien has done to defend him. We missed the playoffs this year mostly due to the players, but Claude had a REALLY bad year. His binkies really became evident. He's far too stubborn with the lines. Other years, sure, we had plenty of depth and for every line that was cold, there were another 3 that were hot. That was not the case this year. We don't have the elite two-way players we had a few years ago. We're a mediocre team right now and once Claude was given that, we failed. Again, he's one of the best coaches in Bruins history, but everything has a shelf life. I think this is his expiration date. I just don't want to be drinking sour milk all season taking a chance on him again.

 

[Man Rocket]

Julien is one of the best coaches in Bruins history. I think that's pretty obvious. But everything has a shelf life.

His system was perfect for this team... We had the best defensive defenseman of this generation, two of the best goalies of this generation, and the best defensive forward. We always had a blend of physical and offensive players to go with that core group of players. We were tough to play against. We'd either beat you with defensive genius, or blow you out of the water with our offense. Of course they had their flaws but we were a consistent threat in the playoffs, no one wanted to play us.

But it's not right to use what Julien has done to defend him. We missed the playoffs this year mostly due to the players, but Claude had a REALLY bad year. His binkies really became evident. He's far too stubborn with the lines. Other years, sure, we had plenty of depth and for every line that was cold, there were another 3 that were hot. That was not the case this year. We don't have the elite two-way players we had a few years ago. We're a mediocre team right now and once Claude was given that, we failed. Again, he's one of the best coaches in Bruins history, but everything has a shelf life. I think this is his expiration date. I just don't want to be drinking sour milk all season taking a chance on him again.

good post, especially agree with the bolded. key word is "was", the team has changed

 

[Era of Sanity]

It may not look like it to some, but people are going to regret the day Julien is fired/leaves ...

Claude for his warts is also a proven commodity so you may be right.

It would be a bit of a gamble. The upside would be getting a guy who installs a more uptempo system and more on the cutting edge of the game, the downside could be getting a lesser coach who hasn't proven he can be a winner in the NHL.

I think at this point they should stick with Julien, the best candidates for the most part are gone. See how the team does, if next year isn't a good year under Julien then fire him and get in on all best available candidates.

 

[kdog82]

Something is up here. When a new GM comes in he usually backs the current coach and replaces them almost immediately.

So far Sweeney hasn't really said a word regarding Julien. To me, it seems as though Sweeney is not a fan of Julien or like some said on here, believes a change behind the bench is necessary to have a new voice (shelf life) in the dressing room.

I think if Julien is gone, Dineen will be named the new coach. Dineen's reputation has grown around the league and will get another shot to be an NHL head coach.