GDT: The Joy of Painting with Dano: Flyers @ Devils 7pm MSGSN

[Devs3cups]

You nailed it on both sides. It's why I don't like that people also take offense over the veterans taking a step back this year. Just because they are veterans to some degree doesn't mean that they aren't being impacted in a similar manner by having a younger partner with increased responsibility. They have to play off each other, and it is not as simple as some make it out to be.

This was always something I think a lot of us had in the back of our mind, the defense taking a step back due to the changes. And while it did for much of the beginning of the year, I do think they've improved as the year has gone on.

This makes a lot of sense to me. I’m very down right now, but I’m not down about our future. Our young guys like Nemec, Luke, Holtz, Bahl and even the guys coming up soon need to develop. Also seems normal for our vets to be slightly affected by new guys.

 

[Devils731]

‘Trying to make something happen’ is fine for turnovers in the offensive zone but what’s the excuse for lazy, brainless ones in your own zone?

It’s all trying to make something happen, regardless of the zone. The Devils defense is predicated on making things happen through pressure/outmanning and the Devils breakout and offense seems to revolve mostly on asking guys to make a play.

For example, every turnover at the defensive half boards where Dano complains they didn’t chip the puck out to center ice. That’s a guy who feels he’s going to spend all game chipping the puck out to center ice and playing defense all game if he plays conservative but he currently has a chance to thread a nice pass or beat a guy 1 on 1 and even this half look doesn’t happen frequently.

So if that guy felt there would be opportunities later in the game, maybe he makes the simple chip.

Instead he feels like he will never generate offense without making a play so he should try to make a 50/50 play happen, even though it’s dangerous, because he often feels trapped with no good options and he finally sees some positive play he can go for.

 

[devilsblood]

It’s all trying to make something happen, regardless of the zone. The Devils defense is predicated on making things happen through pressure/outmanning and the Devils breakout and offense seems to revolve mostly on asking guys to make a play.

For example, every turnover at the defensive half boards where Dano complains they didn’t chip the puck out to center ice. That’s a guy who feels he’s going to spend all game chipping the puck out to center ice and playing defense all game if he plays conservative but he currently has a chance to thread a nice pass or beat a guy 1 on 1 and even this half look doesn’t happen frequently.

So if that guy felt there would be opportunities later in the game, maybe he makes the simple chip.

Instead he feels like he will never generate offense without making a play so he should try to make a 50/50 play happen, even though it’s dangerous, because he often feels trapped with no good options and he finally sees some positive play he can go for.

Except it was only Jack who made these mistakes last night. The rest of the guys generated chances while not turning the puck over.

We didn't finish enough on our chances, which could be part of the frustration, but this is not a system thing.

 

[Rhodes 81]

We have a better team than we had last year (or similar at least).

This drop is purely on the coaching staff.

I don't think it's that simple to just blame the coaching for the drop off from year to year. The top end on the forwards is better, but the depth is worse, the defense is worse, and many of the players are executing worse (and the goaltending has mostly been a mess but that is what it is).

The injuries and the games lost to goaltending early have resulted in a lot of players forcing and getting frustrated by what came naturally to them last year. That's brought down the execution and the mistakes we just weren't making last year. The loss of Severson and Graves reduced both the overall experience and experience in the system of the D. Bahl played this system on and off, but not regularly until last year. Luke played it for a few games last year. Nemec never played it. All 3 of them are also still in their first or 2nd years of NHL experience and only Bahl has more than a year of Pro experience. Marino has not been quite as steady with Bahl instead of Graves. Severson has been sorely missed in several areas. The lack of PK D forced Smith into the lineup more than we want.

The drop off with the D affects everyone else. There are fewer layups from 2 on 1s because the D isn't as sure to get the puck and start those. The forwards trust the D and goaltending a little less and are quicker to drop back so we can't overload as much in the offensive zone. They also start trying more shit in the defensive zone because the puck isn't getting out as quickly with as much control. We had to make these moves eventually, but you can't write them off either. It's better to happen now than in the future. The goaltending not being an absolute sieve to start the year would have helped prevent some of that confidence from eroding as well.

If you want Ruff fired that's fine, I don't think he's the best coach in the league or anything. But I think it's unfair to pin this all on coaching. I also think, all things considered, we've played better than our record to this point in the year. Maybe the results swing our way at some point and maybe they don't, but I think this team deserves 3-5 more wins at this point than it has and that would change the optics.

 

[JrFischer54]

My whole thing is, this team might have enough pieces to do ok. Let him come in, give them a kick in the pants, go far in the playoffs and/or win a cup, and then fire him after the players get their feelings hurt one too many times. I'll take it.

well they aren't going to get torts anymore but this team really does need a total veteran hard on players coach imo. that doesn't mean they are going to get rid of ruff IN SEASON because they absolutely will not.

 

[JrFischer54]

I don't think it's that simple to just blame the coaching for the drop off from year to year. The top end on the forwards is better, but the depth is worse, the defense is worse, and many of the players are executing worse (and the goaltending has mostly been a mess but that is what it is).

The injuries and the games lost to goaltending early have resulted in a lot of players forcing and getting frustrated by what came naturally to them last year. That's brought down the execution and the mistakes we just weren't making last year. The loss of Severson and Graves reduced both the overall experience and experience in the system of the D. Bahl played this system on and off, but not regularly until last year. Luke played it for a few games last year. Nemec never played it. All 3 of them are also still in their first or 2nd years of NHL experience and only Bahl has more than a year of Pro experience. Marino has not been quite as steady with Bahl instead of Graves. Severson has been sorely missed in several areas. The lack of PK D forced Smith into the lineup more than we want.

The drop off with the D affects everyone else. There are fewer layups from 2 on 1s because the D isn't as sure to get the puck and start those. The forwards trust the D and goaltending a little less and are quicker to drop back so we can't overload as much in the offensive zone. They also start trying more shit in the defensive zone because the puck isn't getting out as quickly with as much control. We had to make these moves eventually, but you can't write them off either. It's better to happen now than in the future. The goaltending not being an absolute sieve to start the year would have helped prevent some of that confidence from eroding as well.

If you want Ruff fired that's fine, I don't think he's the best coach in the league or anything. But I think it's unfair to pin this all on coaching. I also think, all things considered, we've played better than our record to this point in the year. Maybe the results swing our way at some point and maybe they don't, but I think this team deserves 3-5 more wins at this point than it has and that would change the optics.

its def not on ruff imo goaltending is a huge problem and you can see it deflates the team when the goalie can't be counted on

 

[Guttersniped]

We actually played well. IMO. We lost because of our own mistakes. Shot ourselves is most of the flyers goals. And missed a few key goal opportunities.

We even got a PP goal. Going from white hot horseshoes up our butts on the PP to Please Sir, May I Just One PP goal has dampened the fun a bit.

As side note. Losing Hamilton hurt us offensively. Sorry Dougie haters, it did. He was 3rd in points last season.

[edit: these are goals from the defense.]
2022-23:
30 GP:
All strengths - 16 goals (Hamilton - 7 goals)
5v5 - 11 goals (DH - 5)
PP - 3 goals (DH - 2)
82 GP:
All strengths - 49 goals (DH - 22)
5v5 - 32 goals (DH - 13)
PP - 10 goals (DH - 8)

2023-24:
30 GP:
All strengths - 11 goals (DH - 5)
5v5 - 3 goals (DH - 1)
PP - 7 goals (DH - 4)

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

How can you blame goaltending in losses like yesterday where they literally scored every goal off of a turnover or on the rush ? The 1st goal was a thing of beauty , the 2nd was a 2 on 1 and the 3rd is a breakaway off an unfortunate yet brutal turnover. The Devils had a few really good chances to win , Lazar breakaway , Nemec pass to Siegenthaler that he missed the net on , Hughes falling on overtime partial breakaway , Nemec with a shot in the slot in over time, Bratt turning down a good shot opportunity before the ot goal...They couldn't find that 3rd goal and ultimately that is what cost them this game. It was a good game amongst both teams but you really can't blame the goaltending in this one.

 

[MasterofGrond]

dougie, regardless of his (comparatively minor) defensive warts is a one man offense while he's out there. He's in a league of his own when it comes to generating not just shots but good shots from the blueline.

that's his primary skill, he does it as well as anyone in the league, and it's valuable.

 

[devilsblood]

How can you blame goaltending in losses like yesterday where they literally scored every goal off of a turnover or on the rush ? The 1st goal was a thing of beauty , the 2nd was a 2 on 1 and the 3rd is a breakaway off an unfortunate yet brutal turnover. The Devils had a few really good chances to win , Lazar breakaway , Nemec pass to Siegenthaler that he missed the net on , Hughes falling on overtime partial breakaway , Nemec with a shot in the slot in over time, Bratt turning down a good shot opportunity before the ot goal...They couldn't find that 3rd goal and ultimately that is what cost them this game. It was a good game amongst both teams but you really can't blame the goaltending in this one.

I don't think anyone is blaming yesterdays loss on the goalie. Probably because the turnovers were so blatant and only 3 goals(2 regulation goals) were allowed.

But this really has been the story of the season. Win the possession battle, but turn the puck over often leading to superior chances against, and goalies not making saves on said superior chances.

 

[Guttersniped]

We have a better team than we had last year (or similar at least).

This drop is purely on the coaching staff.

We don’t have a better team right now. The kids are very promising but do things rookie defensemen do.

As others pointed out, we sacrificed forward depth to hand out a few big contracts so it hurts more to have a broken Meier and slumping Mercer. Hughes got hurt and could be nursing something.

Haula is definitely nursing something, as someone pointed out he’s barely taken any face-offs in his last 5 games.

Vanecek struggling is no different than a lot of other mediocre goalies who have up and down periods. Not sure Schmid is ready for the NHL.

Maybe we miss Burnette. I’m not against eventually moving on from Ruff but I don’t see this as just a coaching issue at all.

 

[PizzaAndPucks]

I don't think anyone is blaming yesterdays loss on the goalie. Probably because the turnovers were so blatant and on 3 goals(2 regulation goals) were allowed.

But this really has been the story of the season. Win the possession battle, but turn the puck over often leading to superior chances against, and goalies not making saves on said superior chances.

We had more chances overall in the 3rd and overtime but the Devils really didn't have that great of a 3rd period IMO. You have to take risks to win games with your defense jumping up in the rush/play but it seems to burn us quite often. It's a double edged sword that has bitten them in the ass a ton this season.

 

[Guttersniped]

This makes a lot of sense to me. I’m very down right now, but I’m not down about our future. Our young guys like Nemec, Luke, Holtz, Bahl and even the guys coming up soon need to develop. Also seems normal for our vets to be slightly affected by new guys.

Avatar photo checks out.

 

[Devs3cups]

Avatar photo checks out.

Thanks, that was intended lol. Spongebob conveys emotions very well. Wanted to display my state of mind with this team right now lol.

Hopefully soon we can get happy Hat Hat wearing Spongebob in there!

 

[NjDevsRR]

Thanks, that was intended lol. Spongebob conveys emotions very well. Wanted to display my state of mind with this team right now lol.

Hopefully soon we can get happy Hat Hat wearing Spongebob in there!

That be SpongeBob Ross

 

[JK3]

I’m not a fan of the defensive system in our zone at all but blaming tonight’s loss on it or our system as a whole makes no sense to me.

Torts has Philly playing pretty solid and we still created some really good chances that our guys whiffed on multiple times.

We were playing pretty tight in our end lately, cut down on a bunch of odd man chances until Smith got back in, he was brutal last night.

All that being said this loss is on Jack for gift wrapping two goals.

 

[NjDevsRR]

I’m not a fan of the defensive system in our zone at all but blaming tonight’s loss on it or our system as a whole makes no sense to me.

Torts has Philly playing pretty solid and we still created some really good chances that our guys whiffed on multiple times.

We were playing pretty tight in our end lately, cut down on a bunch of odd man chances until Smith got back in, he was brutal last night.

All that being said this loss is on Jack for gift wrapping two goals.

These games happen in a season, which is ok. The games that make me more mad are what we saw against Ducks Sharks and that one Detroit game and the Caps games where they didn’t put in the required effort. That’s what is grinding my gears this season.

 

[Devils731]

Except it was only Jack who made these mistakes last night. The rest of the guys generated chances while not turning the puck over.

We didn't finish enough on our chances, which could be part of the frustration, but this is not a system thing.

But it’s not a question of just last night, it’s a question of why do the Devils turn it over so frequently and badly in the defensive zone.

I believe the answer is because the players often feel their options are be safe and turn it over or try to make a play and turn it over. They don’t usually have an option that is safely reset the play and go to a set breakout.

 

[Bleedred]

We don’t score as much this year (wayyyyyy less at 5 on 5) and our rush game isn’t anywhere near as explosive.

I don’t know enough about what Travis Green does with this team to say he’s a problem. All we know for sure is that he runs the power play/man advantage situations.

What I do know is that he was an absolute joke of a head coach (pretty nearly Doug Weight territory) and we are royally f***ed if he’s a serious heir to Ruff. I’d rather have David Quinn as a head coach than Green. Thats as the young people say, NO CAP!

And what I do know is last year’s team looked identical to the 21-22 Panthers team that was dangerous every shift.

This team looks more dangerous than the 21-22 team, but a clear drop from the 22-23 team.

 

[Rhodes 81]

I’m not a fan of the defensive system in our zone at all but blaming tonight’s loss on it or our system as a whole makes no sense to me.

Torts has Philly playing pretty solid and we still created some really good chances that our guys whiffed on multiple times.

We were playing pretty tight in our end lately, cut down on a bunch of odd man chances until Smith got back in, he was brutal last night.

All that being said this loss is on Jack for gift wrapping two goals.

This is exactly how I feel. I've said it before and I'll continue to say it: Special players get caught trying to do special things sometimes and you just have to live with it. One extra bounce on one of the scoring chances we generated last night and nobody cares about it. And frankly, I want Jack trying to keep the puck on his stick 10/10 times in OT. but that first gaffe from him is something he did a lot less of last season when he wasn't forcing things quite as much. That's where the overall lack of confidence comes in when things just aren't clicking like they did last year.

When you believe you need to score 4-5 goals a game to win and the only way to get there is for you personally to do something special, you start trying to force that to happen and that's when the mistakes get worse. Unfortunately, that's where we're at thanks to the way the start of the season played out.

 

[Bleedred]

Ruff needs to go, but not right now.

Because he won’t be replaced by someone real.

I keep saying this, but let him either right the ship or completely sink it and if it sinks then out he goes at season’s end. Replacing him now with some clown (like Green) does nothing to help us.

There may be a real market for head coaches this offseason. There is no market right now.

The only decent option is Evason, but he f***ed up so much last year with the Fleury stuff and continued this year with it and deserved his firing. Team may also score even less under him.

I’m not convinced Berube is anything more than a guy who caught fire at the right time. Would I take him over Green? Well duh. I’d take anyone but MacLean and Doug Weight over Green.

May as well bring Bruce out of retirement for one more go if that was the case.

I don’t blame Todd’s errand boy for what happened in Edmonton, but I also don’t credit him for what happened the last couple of years he was the head coach there either.

There’s a decent chance one of Sullivan or Cooper is on the market this year.

Oh, and Gallant is another clown. Don’t want him either. Let him keep collecting from the Rangers up in Prince Edward Island.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

This is exactly how I feel. I've said it before and I'll continue to say it: Special players get caught trying to do special things sometimes and you just have to live with it. One extra bounce on one of the scoring chances we generated last night and nobody cares about it. And frankly, I want Jack trying to keep the puck on his stick 10/10 times in OT. but that first gaffe from him is something he did a lot less of last season when he wasn't forcing things quite as much. That's where the overall lack of confidence comes in when things just aren't clicking like they did last year.

When you believe you need to score 4-5 goals a game to win and the only way to get there is for you personally to do something special, you start trying to force that to happen and that's when the mistakes get worse. Unfortunately, that's where we're at thanks to the way the start of the season played out.

That's fine, I have no issue with this in hindsight but telling a player to be a bit more careful with his decisions in the same game he already gift wrapped a goal is nothing to be mad about. It's game management, you can be slightly more careful in one game and play your game through and through in another. That's on coaching, you don't have to have your players play balls to the wall every shift that they have. There's ebbs and flows in this sport and this team hasn't figured it out at all this year.

We have a better team than we had last year (or similar at least).

This drop is purely on the coaching staff.

Lmao, no, we don't. We had Damon Severson playing 3RD which is being a turnstile of Brendan Smith/Colin Miller right now and bunch of guys in our bottom 6 who are contributing elsewhere in the league in the top 6.

 

[Its Always Sundstrom]

They are younger overall. Talented or not I think that matters to some extent. Look at Bahl’s defensive usage. It’s really hard and he’s a second year player. Luke and Nemec are playing a lot and as rookies they make mistakes and put a bit more responsibility on the vets who all have to do more with Hamilton out. And up front you have Meier’s injury and Holtz being worked in. Lots of adjustments.

Youth, new players and adjustments is one thing. Constant defensive zone breakdowns, starting games in the second period and losing badly to bottom feeders is another. That’s lack preparation and that falls on coaching.

Fitz needs to send Kate Madigan down to the bench

Actually, that would be pretty cool and progressive to see a female behind the bench.

 

[PKs Broken Stick]

I don't think anyone is blaming yesterdays loss on the goalie. Probably because the turnovers were so blatant and on 3 goals(2 regulation goals) were allowed.

But this really has been the story of the season. Win the possession battle, but turn the puck over often leading to superior chances against, and goalies not making saves on said superior chances.

There were a couple (unless you have them on ignore lol since that's all they ever post here).

 

[MasterofGrond]

There were a couple (unless you have them on ignore lol since that's all they ever post here).

Name names.

Personally, as I think the 2nd most strident OUR GOALIES SUCK poster on this board, hard for me to get on Vitek for last night. He looked bad, but he gave up 2 in regulation and if you give up 2 in regulation (on a reasonable number of chances) I'm not going to get on your ass.

Issue last night was we drove play and couldn't finish. Little bit of killing ourselves by not converting and a little bit of "that's the way the puck bounces sometimes."

I think the team played pretty well, better than I was conveying while the game was happening last night I think, at least now that I've slept on it.