The issue of openly rooting for the tank

[SatanwasaSlovak]

Parity would be tough to maintain if the lousy didn't receive something in return for being so, no?

Everywhere else in the world you get relegated to a lower division for playing lousy, not getting rewarded with the best youngsters.

That's the thing i don't like about NHL. There is a reward for trading away your best players and on purpose having the team perform worse, instead of trying your best or restructure the team so that they next year will perform better. No one ever really leaves the league as in getting relegated so there is room to find different strategies to become a better team without purposely lose in an indirect manner.

 

[Jim Bob]

Everywhere else in the world you get relegated to a lower division for playing lousy, not getting rewarded with the best youngsters.

That's the thing i don't like about NHL. There is a reward for trading away your best players and on purpose having the team perform worse, instead of trying your best or restructure the team so that they next year will perform better. No one ever really leaves the league as in getting relegated so there is room to find different strategies to become a better team without purposely lose in an indirect manner.

Everywhere else $$$ talks and BS walks.

While that might be OK with Pegula in charge, that isn't really what is best overall for the NHL from a business POV.

 

[StlSwedes]

I lower my expectations about winning and when we do play well enough to win I get a pleasant surprise. I also rationalize losing games as a necessary sacrifice that the team and fans must endure in order to lead to something better. I never openly root to lose but when we do it no longer bothers me like it did before the rebuild.

 

[Rowley Birkin]

all of our picks? We have more 1st and 2nd round picks than roster spots.

Exactly. You can almost go through the team, the farm & the list of picks assuming they will / won't turn out on a 50/50 basis.... try it for yourself - we STILL have a pretty impressive looking lineup down the road.

 

[Dreakon13]

Everywhere else in the world you get relegated to a lower division for playing lousy, not getting rewarded with the best youngsters.

If you were in charge, after 29 years the NHL would only have one team left lol.

As for the OP, I don't want the team to lose... but I'm not naive enough to think the standard "race to 10th" winning streak the Sabres go on every February after sucking all season is going to help anything.

 

[ZeroPT*]

Everywhere else in the world you get relegated to a lower division for playing lousy, not getting rewarded with the best youngsters.

That's the thing i don't like about NHL. There is a reward for trading away your best players and on purpose having the team perform worse, instead of trying your best or restructure the team so that they next year will perform better. No one ever really leaves the league as in getting relegated so there is room to find different strategies to become a better team without purposely lose in an indirect manner.

Everywhere else? meaning football in europe?
the revenue structure in football vs the NHL is completely different. It wouldn't work. I'm on my phone right now so I can't link it but there is a thread about it on the business of hockey board which explains it in heavy detail.

 

[haseoke39]

Everywhere else in the world you get relegated to a lower division for playing lousy, not getting rewarded with the best youngsters.

That's the thing i don't like about NHL. There is a reward for trading away your best players and on purpose having the team perform worse, instead of trying your best or restructure the team so that they next year will perform better. No one ever really leaves the league as in getting relegated so there is room to find different strategies to become a better team without purposely lose in an indirect manner.

well, if they were playing in a league with completely different rules, they'd get 6 goals just for getting it all the way down below the goal line.

 

[JThorne]

If you hand the bank a thousand dollars, does that mean you hate money? No. You're investing it. I view this season as handing the bank money. Hoping that in the long term, we get back more than we put in. Same as last season.

 

[joshjull]

I'm not going to watch a game and root against the Sabres, but my expectation is that they will be bad, so I'm not going to get upset if they lose. Really what I'm looking for is a step forward for the kids, see if Nolan is a legit long term coaching solution, and just enjoy NHL level hockey, even if my team isn't providing it most nights.

This is where I am as well.

Parity would be tough to maintain if the lousy didn't receive something in return for being so, no?

This isn't how parity developed in the NHL since the full season lockout. Parity came into play due to the salary cap restrictions on teams and the limiting of what the players get. Coming out of that lockout we saw a huge reduction in the disparity in spending between big and small markets. The reason for the lack of parity before that lockout was the enormous gap in spending on rosters. Its what led to the deadpuck trap era. Thats because it was a lot cheaper to build a strong defensive team built around a good goalie.

The past lockout saw and even further reduction in the players share to 50%. We also saw a reduction in the big markets ability to front load long deals to work around the previous CBA. Making the disparity between even less. Its virtually impossible now for the big markets to hoard talent.


The argument that being able to draft high after a bad season creates parity has always been a fallacy. There are teams that repeatedly draft at the bottom and they continue to do so because they suck due to crappy or cheap owners, crappy management or a combo of those factors. Any team with good management should be able to ice a competitive team in this league.

 

[SatanwasaSlovak]

Everywhere else? meaning football in europe?
the revenue structure in football vs the NHL is completely different. It wouldn't work. I'm on my phone right now so I can't link it but there is a thread about it on the business of hockey board which explains it in heavy detail.

Yes, but also normal hockey-leagues in Europe, like the swedish league for example. But that was not the point, the point is that the draft-system gives the worst time a price for being the worst team, which in turn creates an unhealthy culture that trading away large chunks of your team only to become worst, gets rewarded.

NHL-teams gets away really easy, compared to other teams around the world that gets relegated and lose some big incomes, has to sell away large chunks of their roster and have to build a team to get promoted again. Not saying there should be a relegation-promotion-system, i'm just saying i don't like the fact that you get rewarded for playing bad ice-hockey. It goes against the idea of sports in general in my opinion.

 

[Paxon]

Yes, but also normal hockey-leagues in Europe, like the swedish league for example. But that was not the point, the point is that the draft-system gives the worst time a price for being the worst team, which in turn creates an unhealthy culture that trading away large chunks of your team only to become worst, gets rewarded.

NHL-teams gets away really easy, compared to other teams around the world that gets relegated and lose some big incomes, has to sell away large chunks of their roster and have to build a team to get promoted again. Not saying there should be a relegation-promotion-system, i'm just saying i don't like the fact that you get rewarded for playing bad ice-hockey. It goes against the idea of sports in general in my opinion.

Bad teams in European leagues trade or loan away their best players routinely, it's no different. You can't eliminate it, you just shift the factors behind it. If you get relegated no one is going to want to continue playing on your team. Teams don't want to pay for big contracts when the player isn't going to help them succeed.

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

Everywhere else in the world you get relegated to a lower division for playing lousy, not getting rewarded with the best youngsters.

That's the thing i don't like about NHL. There is a reward for trading away your best players and on purpose having the team perform worse, instead of trying your best or restructure the team so that they next year will perform better. No one ever really leaves the league as in getting relegated so there is room to find different strategies to become a better team without purposely lose in an indirect manner.

So you flip it and give the best teams the best picks, and now you reward the bad teams for trading away their best players because the picks they get back are even better. Draft picks will always have more value to bad teams and bad teams will always trade their expiring contracts for draft picks.

 

[CatsforReinhart]

Everywhere else in the world you get relegated to a lower division for playing lousy, not getting rewarded with the best youngsters.

That's the thing i don't like about NHL. There is a reward for trading away your best players and on purpose having the team perform worse, instead of trying your best or restructure the team so that they next year will perform better. No one ever really leaves the league as in getting relegated so there is room to find different strategies to become a better team without purposely lose in an indirect manner.

In those leagues such as European football you can buy players from other clubs. It is a completely different system. Not to mention teams are folding all the time in Europe in the lower leagues and Rich owners stay on top such as Real Madrid, Bayern, Barcelona and Milan

When you say about the NHL what about NBA, NFL and MLB? You are comparing apples to cats.

 

[ZeroPT*]

Yes, but also normal hockey-leagues in Europe, like the swedish league for example. But that was not the point, the point is that the draft-system gives the worst time a price for being the worst team, which in turn creates an unhealthy culture that trading away large chunks of your team only to become worst, gets rewarded.

NHL-teams gets away really easy, compared to other teams around the world that gets relegated and lose some big incomes, has to sell away large chunks of their roster and have to build a team to get promoted again. Not saying there should be a relegation-promotion-system, i'm just saying i don't like the fact that you get rewarded for playing bad ice-hockey. It goes against the idea of sports in general in my opinion.

Again. Revenue structure is different. If the year after pegula bought the sabres, they would have been relegated. He would go from a very profitable NHL team to a financial burden of an AHL team.

In football you can buy players. All teams can buy players, it just takes money. In hockey, you can't because top players are almost never in free agency. You need to develop them.

 

[Der Jaeger]

Everywhere else in the world you get relegated to a lower division for playing lousy, not getting rewarded with the best youngsters.

That's the thing i don't like about NHL. There is a reward for trading away your best players and on purpose having the team perform worse, instead of trying your best or restructure the team so that they next year will perform better. No one ever really leaves the league as in getting relegated so there is room to find different strategies to become a better team without purposely lose in an indirect manner.

That's the Europeans model. That's how they keep parity - though I don't think it works as well as the North American system: losers get reinforced with better players through draft order.

It's working in the NFL and fairly well in the NHL.

 

[kenfury]

Exactly. You can almost go through the team, the farm & the list of picks assuming they will / won't turn out on a 50/50 basis.... try it for yourself - we STILL have a pretty impressive looking lineup down the road.

That is pretty much my thoughts on the group of Carrier, Baptiste, Compher, Bailey, and Hurley. Three of them *should* become a good line, one AHL fodder, and one wash out. Even still I am counting on some of the group of 5 to play.

 

[26CornerBlitz]

He wants to play for the Sabres.

 

[Jacob582]

I've officially given up on the tank until further notice. I will be wishing the team to win from the start of the regular season.

I just think that TM **** this up. Darcy knew how to tank, and tanked hard last season. We are so close (we had/have a stripped down team) timed during the right draft year. TM could have done better.

 

[haseoke39]

I've officially given up on the tank until further notice. I will be wishing the team to win from the start of the regular season.

I just think that TM **** this up. Darcy knew how to tank, and tanked hard last season. We are so close (we had/have a stripped down team) timed during the right draft year. TM could have done better.

I wouldn't go that far, but I'll be watching patiently to see how TM handles the season. Getting a franchise center out of a situation in which he is/was very much capable of guaranteeing himself a franchise center without sacrificing anything of future value is his #1 job to me.

I think the team he's put together may test his resolve to tank. He may have to make moves earlier than strictly necessary to get to #30.

 

[Myllz]

I wouldn't go that far, but I'll be watching patiently to see how TM handles the season. Getting a franchise center out of a situation in which he is/was very much capable of guaranteeing himself a franchise center without sacrificing anything of future value is his #1 job to me.

I think the team he's put together may test his resolve to tank. He may have to make moves earlier than strictly necessary to get to #30.

Doubt it. This team, as-is, is perfectly capable of being in last place.

 

[haseoke39]

Doubt it. This team, as-is, is perfectly capable of being in last place.

What does "perfectly capable of being in last place" mean? I agree that it's entirely possible, but I think it's more likely than not that they finish higher if no moves are made.

 

[Myllz]

What does "perfectly capable of being in last place" mean? I agree that it's entirely possible, but I think it's more likely than not that they finish higher if no moves are made.

There's maybe one or two teams right now that might be capable of being worse than this roster. They have no goaltending, no scoring and a questionable defense. This team is going to be bad. Last place kind of bad.

 

[Paxon]

There's maybe one or two teams right now that might be capable of being worse than this roster. They have no goaltending, no scoring and a questionable defense. This team is going to be bad. Last place kind of bad.

Florida is, though Luongo goes a long way towards helping keep the wolves at bay. I just looked at the lines thread on the trade board and realized how bad the Panthers top 6 really is. Barkov and Bjugstad are going to have to be ready to really emerge for that group to not be putrid. The wingers are Boyes, Jussi Jokinen, Huberdeau, and Upshall. If Huberdeau takes the next step that will go a long way, but still. Brad Boyes. Jussi Jokinen. Upshall. That's bad.

This isn't meant as a counter-point as it isn't, I just wanted to share how bad that top 6 is.

 

[Myllz]

Florida is, though Luongo goes a long way towards helping keep the wolves at bay. I just looked at the lines thread on the trade board and realized how bad the Panthers top 6 really is. Barkov and Bjugstad are going to have to be ready to really emerge for that group to not be putrid. The wingers are Boyes, Jussi Jokinen, Huberdeau, and Upshall. If Huberdeau takes the next step that will go a long way, but still. Brad Boyes. Jussi Jokinen. Upshall. That's bad.

This isn't meant as a counter-point as it isn't, I just wanted to share how bad that top 6 is.

Yup, Florida's pretty terrible as well. Hopefully Luongo plays out of his mind and wins them 10-15 games on his own.

 

[VaporTrail]

Yup, Florida's pretty terrible as well. Hopefully Luongo plays out of his mind and wins them 10-15 games on his own.

maybe I'll buy a Luongo jersey or t-shirt and wear it around the b-lo....see if anyone catches on.....