The issue of openly rooting for the tank

[jBuds]

I wonder...how many of you are really committed to the notion that you want to be piss poor in an attempt to secure the better chance of a McDavid/Eichel prize?

I have a hard time with it. I understand how fantastic it would be to land a prospect of that caliber, but combine the fact that it's no guarantee we get either of them if we finish near the bottom with the idea that I always want my team to win... I don't know. I get the sense that I'm in the minority in rooting for us to win games... Is that weird or wrong?

I feel as though some of you would truly be upset if we snuck into the postseason.

Would a 9th place finish in the conference be that devastating to you? It would mean an improvement from youth and would signify an expediting of our rebuild... Fighting at the end of the year playing in meaningful games down the stretch? I don't see as much harm in that as some others, I guess.

Give me some clarity or talk me into the right mental state, please.

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[jBuds]

I guess in simpler terms: are you rooting for us to win games? Or are you hoping we suck and lose most of them?

 

[Insomniac99]

I guess in simpler terms: are you rooting for us to win games? Or are you hoping we suck and lose most of them?

Just because someone might not want their team to win this season, doesn't mean they dont want to see them win. We're just looking for the long term win. In the grand scheme of things, there's gonna be a lot of losses regardless. Front loading the losses now, gives us a much better chance of backloading wins later. And for MUCH longer than if we front load even a few more wins this season.

And I know I personally would rather cheer for a stacked team that made the best of a HUGE number of assets that was made possible through years of maneuvering into one moment, over a team that squeaks into the playoffs, only to sabotage the value of those assets, with very little gained.

 

[TehDoak]

I'm not going to watch a game and root against the Sabres, but my expectation is that they will be bad, so I'm not going to get upset if they lose. Really what I'm looking for is a step forward for the kids, see if Nolan is a legit long term coaching solution, and just enjoy NHL level hockey, even if my team isn't providing it most nights.

 

[Afino]

I'd be ecstatic if we somehow make the playoffs. If we're going to win, win enough to do that.

Finishing 9th and getting the 14th draft spot? Not so much.

 

[MayDay]

Let me put it this way - I'm rooting primarily for signs of development from young players, far more than about wins and losses.

If young guys like Reinhart, Girgs, Pysyk, Risto, and any others that get playing time - if they show they're making big strides in their development, I'll be happy whether they win a lot of games or lose a lot of games.

But if the youth are stagnating, I will not be happy even if the team wins an unexpectedly large number of games, perhaps through better than expected performance from veteran players.

 

[ZeroPT*]

I guess in simpler terms: are you rooting for us to win games? Or are you hoping we suck and lose most of them?

I will always root for what's best for the sabres. I firmly believe that finishing last and getting a top pick is the best thing that could happen to this team, so I'll root for that.

 

[Woodhouse]

I went into most games last season with the expectation of a loss and enjoyed the unexpected wins when they came along, but I never rooted for them to lose. I simply accepted losses as the likely outcome and didn't fret much over the losing streaks, as they were inevitable with our roster and injuries. I've again accepted that this will be a poor team, though I am not in the '2015: McEichel or bust' camp either. If we luck out with that prize for enduring a second consecutive miserable season, awesome, but I'm versed well enough in the draft to know that 2015 is an excellent year to have three first-rounders regardless of the oft-talked-about duo. However, if we do manage to finish with the rights to the 29th and/or 30th lottery balls and still miss out on one in the draw, that'll be a bitter pill to immediately swallow.

I'm also not the type to huff-and-puff that they're ruining the tank with wins if they somehow manage to start 2014-15 with a .500+ October, as that means someone's scoring. However, I look at the early schedule and see eight of eleven matchups versus 2014 playoff teams, including five Western Conference opponents, and I think any realist would chalk the majority of those up as losses. Further, November isn't any easier with ten of fourteen versus playoff teams, so by December, we could be out of contention again and distracting ourselves by monitoring player/prospect development, draft eligibles, NYI/STL tanks, or other teams at the bottom. And this is all assuming we're healthy, something we haven't been in recent years, exposing a dire lack of pro depth.

Now, to completely change my outlook on the season, something drastic would have to happen in the early weeks on-ice (i.e., multiple projected career years coupled with youngsters developing before our eyes). Idk that's enough to kick-start this team from 28-30th bottom-feeders to 16-18th or whatever you're suggesting, but I'd hope that the forum wouldn't devolve into, "Murray should've kept so-and-so in CHL/AHL one more year *wink*" or "I wish so-and-so didn't breakout, so we'd be picking McEichel." Poor us, our team/prospects took steps forward and made the playoffs?!

I think the true recipe for a cranky and wavering forum would be if we're losing plenty, but the vets are scoring just enough that we're in 25-27th, while youngsters are stagnant and/or injured with NYI/STL playoff-bound. Then, to add insult to injury, a goaltending carousel and a longshot winner of the 2015 lottery. :knocksonwood:

 

[DeadGhost]

My "rooting" has yet to influence the outcome of a game.

 

[DazedandConfused]

I will always root for what's best for the sabres. I firmly believe that finishing last and getting a top pick is the best thing that could happen to this team, so I'll root for that.

This is a good way to put it I`ve said something similar when talking hockey/sabres with friends.

 

[Jim Bob]

I'm rooting for the Sabres to lose every game 5-4.

 

[TheMistyStranger]

I'm rooting for the Sabres to lose every game 5-4.

Me too. Entertaining losses with development in the kids.

 

[Girgensons28]

Hope the kids develop, but I want that number one pick so bad. It's been far to long since Buffalo has had an elite player other than a goalie. I want the number one pick more than I want my Broncos to win the super bowl...weird.

 

[OkimLom]

I wonder...how many of you are really committed to the notion that you want to be piss poor in an attempt to secure the better chance of a McDavid/Eichel prize?

I have a hard time with it. I understand how fantastic it would be to land a prospect of that caliber, but combine the fact that it's no guarantee we get either of them if we finish near the bottom with the idea that I always want my team to win... I don't know. I get the sense that I'm in the minority in rooting for us to win games... Is that weird or wrong?

I feel as though some of you would truly be upset if we snuck into the postseason.

Would a 9th place finish in the conference be that devastating to you? It would mean an improvement from youth and would signify an expediting of our rebuild... Fighting at the end of the year playing in meaningful games down the stretch? I don't see as much harm in that as some others, I guess.

Give me some clarity or talk me into the right mental state, please.

I think we're at a good point right now.

Am I hoping they lose so that we can get the elite talent that we need? yes. Am I hoping they lose because they suck? no. I want them all to show improvement. They can still be good but lose a ton of games. I don't think our talent level is up to par at this moment with most of the teams. Now if they lose most of their games, then we have a better shot at the talent at the top of the draft.

If they somehow make it into the playoffs, then that means more than the majority of our players took a leap forward in their development, and I wouldn't be more proud. The roster we have right now doesn't scream playoff contention, but if they do make the playoffs, that means the young vets took huge strides forward in their development and that is a good thing for this organization.

Personally, I'm just going to watch the games, if they win then I'll be happy, but if they lose I'll be contempt and not take it too seriously, like so many do.

 

[Clock]

This is my own mental posturing on the topic.

It's less that I'm rooting for them to lose and more acknowledging that the detriment to losing is practically non-existent to the point of being beneficial.

I'm happy with the rebuild in that the Sabres are clearly working to build a wave of quality players whom should generally all be in positions to make real contributions at roughly the same time. Setting that up came at the cost of sucking for a few years, but who cares.

I won't be unhappy if the team is winning games, because the end goal is to get better, especially given the picks we already have, but I feel that the scale is still tipped toward losing NOW being somewhat more beneficial.

tl;dr: Winning and losing are actually both beneficial at this point, lean toward losing as being slightly better.

 

[Nibbler]

Last season I cheered when a youngster did something positive, cheered when we beat the Leafs or Bruins, laughed at the ridiculous mistakes (instead of getting angry), and pretty much didn't care if they won or lost. It worked for me... got me through the season.

 

[Rhett4]

I know that they need to lose, but I can't watch them and root for them to lose. I couldn't watch most games the last half of last season. I just close my eyes, stick my fingers in my ears, and pretend there's no hockey. It's the only way to get through it.

 

[ZZamboni]

Of course we all want to see them go 82-0. Of course we all want to see them win.

I hate watching them lose. I know winning enough games will get us a decent first round draft pick. Hell, most years we get a decent first rounder. I want a top 2 pick. I want a potentially elite talent to be drafted. Not because it would be nice, but because I feel it's needed.

Open rooting for tank? If not deeply caring this year if they lose the majority of their games is tanking? Guilty I guess.

Like others, it would be nice to see some players improve. I don't need to see vast improvement. Just progress. If Myers returns to form or improves. Hodgson and Ennis improve in areas. Risto holds his own and learns from mistakes. Girgensons and Pysyk build on last year. The veteran players they signed lead and help build up the youth.

Yet at the end of the season, the rubber found our net too often, while the Sabres talent couldn't overcome most teams Defense and Goaltending. I can live with that. Effort can be entertaining to a point too.

 

[leo2892]

Simple answer to a simple question. Would you rather have Sam Reinhart or Nick Ritchie?

If the Sabres win, you should be happy your team won.
If the Sabres lose, you should be happy your team's draft ranking improved.

Best we can hope for until the rebuild is over.

 

[cardiffgiant]

Last seasons GBU threads were tough with people being excited about losing, or upset with wins, or having an Oilers fan pop by to sarcastically congratulate us on a win.

I know that a lot of it is in jest and that some are just thinking big long term picture. I just can't be happy to see this team lose. It's even harder to spend thousands of dollars on season tickets when a team is intentionally losing.

Last year they were flat out bad and didn't deserve to win many games. They'll be bad because of inexperience this year, and if they are putting the effort in on the ice, it'll be even harder to see them lose.

 

[kenfury]

I came to terms with this last year. I would love for them to win if I thought real progress was being made and the season was not a fluke. What I dont want to see is what Ottawa did three years ago where they had a good season, thought they had something and then regressed. This team just is not where they need to be yet. Tank, tank hard.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I'm rooting for wins. I believe the pieces are already there to build a contender. Now all we need to do it be patient, and pray they develop nicely.

 

[Shoey]

The thing is: if they finish last they are guaranteed to be able to select one of Eichel/McDavid. This is enough of a doughnut on a string to play as many incapable players as possible this season.

 

[Chainshot]

I'm not going to watch a game and root against the Sabres, but my expectation is that they will be bad, so I'm not going to get upset if they lose. Really what I'm looking for is a step forward for the kids, see if Nolan is a legit long term coaching solution, and just enjoy NHL level hockey, even if my team isn't providing it most nights.

Pretty much this. They are a lousy collection of talent, even with improvements on last season. My expectations of results are tempered by that roster. Will I be upset if they lose? Not particularly. I'm not rooting for them to lose. But I am expecting it.

Put it another way, I've been at Stage 5 on the Kubler-Ross scale for some time.

 

[Zip15]

I believe the goal is and should be a Stanley Cup. I will root for whatever puts us closer to that long-term goal. I firmly believe McDavid and Eichel put us closer to that goal. Thus, I will root for outcomes consistent with meeting that intermediate goal--obtaining one of them--in order to, in my estimation, increase the likelihood of obtaining the ultimate goal (winning the Stanley Cup).

I'd like to think my answer to this question is more nuanced than a yes or no. Will I root for them to go 0-82-0. Of course not. Even last year I enjoyed the wins against the likes of Boston and Toronto. This year, I hope they do the same against those teams. I hope they whip Columbus in their opener (and I think they will, which will lead to many premature "I told you so's" in another thread). But once the wheat separates from the chaff and we're not within shouting distance of any relevant playoff contender, and game outcomes become relatively meaningless (from the perspective of making the playoffs), I am not going to root for shootout wins and shootout losses. Further, I am going to root for teams with whom we are in direct competition--Florida, Calgary, or whomever--to beat us when we play them (hopefully in an entertaining game).

Last seasons GBU threads were tough with people being excited about losing, or upset with wins, or having an Oilers fan pop by to sarcastically congratulate us on a win.

I know that a lot of it is in jest and that some are just thinking big long term picture. I just can't be happy to see this team lose. It's even harder to spend thousands of dollars on season tickets when a team is intentionally losing.

Last year they were flat out bad and didn't deserve to win many games. They'll be bad because of inexperience this year, and if they are putting the effort in on the ice, it'll be even harder to see them lose.

As for the first bolded statement, from my perspective, I thought the GBUs were tough to read when those on the "I cannot root against the Sabres under any circumstances" side of the aisle--which could pejoratively be called the "short-term gratification" group, but I won't go there--shouted down those who wanted the guarantee of a #1 or #2 pick because we did not want to see a late goal get us a shootout win in a game where we were outshot 2-to-1. In any event, I hope there's more civility from both sides, but I'm not sure that will last, or even occur in the first instance.

As for the second bolded comment, I don't think you need to worry about that. The players are not trying to lose. I think virtually everyone can agree on that.