The Importance of Tough D Depth

[Super Mega]

Rielly
Provorov
Gardiner
McQuaid
Polak
Robidas (not a huge fan, but we gave him the contract..)

This would be a good mix of players IMO.

I like him but he is too injury prone

also boston moved Boychuk to keep him, as wrong as that was I think they still covet him - would not want to overpay.

 

[Guy Boucher]

If we had that we wouldn't be rebuilding. Adding a rugged 6th D may be one of the easiest and cheapest options in July, and the truth is, with a small and young team, we will need it if we don't want our young guys going into a shell. It'll be hard enough on them as it is in this spotlight.

The thing that will make this team go into a shell is if they're getting blown out every night.

Which will happen if you dress a bunch of Gleason's and Fraser's for 'toughness'.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Any D-man needs to be have a modicum of mobility and an ability to move the puck out decently. To add some level of toughness on top of that would be good, but it shouldn't be the priority. Good player first, tough teammate second.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Roman Polak fills that spot perfectly. Petter Granberg also uses his size well. Don't need anymore "toughness"

Rielly - ?????
Percy - Polak
Gardiner - Granberg

First glance tells me we will be picking very early next draft with that defense.

 

[WTFMAN99]

I miss what Fraser provided, if he was just a bit better...

 

[Wafflewhipper]

Not just physical depth defenseman, but tough D. I miss the presence of a Mark Fraser esque blueliner. Yes, he was/is a career bottom pairing defenseman, and yes, his final stretch with the Leafs warranted him being let go. However, this team's lack of punch spanning the past two seasons is embarrassing. Now, i'm not advocating the recall of Orr & McLaren to reunite the bluebombers line, but the Leafs need an old fashioned defenseman who puts it all on the line. Fraser fought every and any heavyweight that posed a threat, he put his body on the line and stood in front of every shot (skull fracture). It was a treat watching that Fraser-Franson pairing, especially in the playoffs versus Boston; when sheltered, a depth player can be extremely effective.

Polak is a monster and a great mentor, but he's not overly mean; he has to be pushed to his limits for the cap to go off. Brewer is a shell of his former self and has lost his physical edge. MacWilliam, despite having a reputation as being a massive open ice hitter, lacks confidence to execute hits, can't fight, and isn't overly mean.

Last night during the Edmonton-Los Angeles game, the crew touched on how important the presence of Keith Aulie has been for the Oilers over the past few weeks. The Oil are constantly beat and battered, teams take liberties on their star players on a nightly basis (namely Hall over the past four seasons). Aulie has stepped in, with some increased minutes, and provided a much needed spark. He's a pretty garbage player skill-wise, but his minutes are sheltered, and he's effectively laying the boom on star players, defending his stars, fighting the rats, and giving his team an identity.

Boston has McQuaid, LA has guys like McNabb, St. Louis has Bortuzzo, New York has McIlrath (part-time), Anaheim has Stoner, and the list goes on. Go check out Alex Steen's recent interview on Robert Bortuzzo. He literally gushes over the guy and stresses how important he's been in developing momentum, protecting teammates, etc.

If the Leafs are going to commit to a rebuild, I don't want Marner or Strome taking a slap shot post-whistle from the opposition without the Toronto bench batting an eye. In 2013/14, all it took was for Kaleta to take an extra step in a hit on Franson for Fraser to come over the launch him down the ice. Noone went near the crease, and the captain didn't have to lead the team in fighting majors whilst having a broken hand. I'm all for giving ice-time to young, deserving Marlies players, but redundant pieces like Brewer, Erixon, etc. need to be disposed of for a player like Fraser, in my opinion. Obviously the goal is to get players of high quality with this grit, but going forward with this rebuild, it's much easier and more realistic to acquire a cheap player of this ilk who can create some sense of security and push back out there. This team is gutless.

You think this guy would let Thornton jump the rookie MacWilliam without answering the bell later that game?...

Here's the deal. When you go against the grain and it works in your favor,everyone else is left catching up. You can build a defense that is not as talented offensively but treacherous and no fun to play against. Reilly's our offensive elite guy and you can get away with just one like him. The rest to varying degrees tough and talented defense first players.

The league isn't very tough and if for some stroke of foresight a management team constructs a tough talented group ahead of the curve,your in business. I think defense should be treated as such. The importance placed on a abundance of offense is not something I would worry about because we have Reilly already. The tougher our defense is to play against the better I think.

All players on the team with a mix of volatility is to my liking. Yeah you need it.

 

[RLF]

It is not necessarily about being able to fight as much as it is tough to play against is what I want from my D. Polak has a place on my D-core, but I would like a guy who can easily play top 4 and is tough to play against. One reason I would hope we consider Nicolas Meloche with our Nashville pick. If Rielly turns out as I/we expect (he is taking another step lately), Meloche may be the perfect partner for him.

That said, I do want some guys that can play as well as drop the mits, but I am more than fine with them being my 3rd/4th liners, not necessarily d-men. If you can find a top 6 guy that can (Lucic, Iginla, E.Kane etc) as well, great.

A good mix of puck moving and size, strength on D is what I am hoping we build.

 

[yubbers]

Polak is an excellent example of a tough Defenseman who can play, great pick up.

For the tank

He's awful

 

[Wafflewhipper]

For the tank

He's awful

Yeah. I don't think much of him either actually.

 

[Bullseye]

For the tank

He's awful

Reluctantly agree - I thought he was the **** before he played for us. Now I just think he's ****.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Tough bottom pairing d-men are a dime a dozen, we need that in our top 4(plus skill) to play big minutes.

Rielly Weber
Hanafin Phaneuf

 

[mikebel111*]

Really overrated IMO
You need players who are smart with the puck and can move it quickly

 

[Hunter74]

I also like tough no nonsense players. I do not think adding one tough player will fix the teams unwillingness to come to each others aid or to stand up for each other. This is a real big issue imo as it is quite obvious we have a few players that don't stand up for anyone and possibly the rest of the team doesn't want to stand up for them.

Polak is as tough as they come and is difficult to play against but as we know he doesn't drop the gloves and that takes away from his intimidation and maybe ability to keep opposition honest. Having a tough middleweight player that can play and is willing to drop the mitts to help out is something we definitely need up front and on the back end.

Wasn't Clarkson one of these guys? I wonder why he wouldn't come to the defense of his teammates?

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I also like tough no nonsense players. I do not think adding one tough player will fix the teams unwillingness to come to each others aid or to stand up for each other. This is a real big issue imo as it is quite obvious we have a few players that don't stand up for anyone and possibly the rest of the team doesn't want to stand up for them.

Polak is as tough as they come and is difficult to play against but as we know he doesn't drop the gloves and that takes away from his intimidation and maybe ability to keep opposition honest. Having a tough middleweight player that can play and is willing to drop the mitts to help out is something we definitely need up front and on the back end.

Wasn't Clarkson one of these guys? I wonder why he wouldn't come to the defense of his teammates?

McQuaid is a UFA this summer. He skates good,passes reasonably well and plays it tough. He would help. The UFA market is terrible this summer otherwise.

 

[Rufio65*]

McQuaid
Steve Downie
Ray Emery

2015 UFA's

Swapping Reimer for Emery makes the team much tougher

 

[The Magic Man]

The thing that will make this team go into a shell is if they're getting blown out every night.

Which will happen if you dress a bunch of Gleason's and Fraser's for 'toughness'.

He said to have one of these types as a 6th Dman. Not a team of them. Besides, us being blown out is happening whether we sign a tough 6th Dman or not. We need a better top pairing to avoid that.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

Granberg is fairly physical, blocks a ton of shots and is incredibly strong. I'll argue he's one of the strongest players physically in the entire Leaf organization.

Granberg doesn't fight though... so I guess he isn't mean.

Borowiecki will find himself on the waiver wire in the near future, just like most players of his ilk. Let's hope Granberg can have a better trajectory.

I find it interesting that Borowiecki is a perfect example of what we need in our lineup, considering he's 25 years old (26 this year) while bouncing between the AHL and the NHL constantly for the past 4-5 years, but Granberg as a 22 year old (23 this year) isn't an option going forward.

Just mind blowing.

Just because Boro didn't become a full time NHLer until 25 doesn't mean that Granberg will. They are 2 totally different players with 2 totally different career trajectories. They actually aren't that similar because Granberg isn't even as close to as tough, mean and physical as Boro ever was.

Yeah, Borocop won't be on waivers any time in the near future. I live in Ottawa.. hes playing well, the fans love him, the organization loves him and so do his teammates. I definitely don't see Granberg as an NHL player, but I will admit that he has improved his puck handling and passing a lot.

I tend to agree with JBell on this one, although I can see the point SD is making. I doubt if Borowiecki will find himself on the waiver wire any time in the near future, and Ottawa seems to be a team that allows their young players to develop slowly.

 

[SprDaVE]

I tend to agree with JBell on this one, although I can see the point SD is making. I doubt if Borowiecki will find himself on the waiver wire any time in the near future, and Ottawa seems to be a team that allows their young players to develop slowly.

And yet we are so fast to call our own prospects (aged 21-23) busts, like in this example, Granberg.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

And yet we are so fast to call our own prospects (aged 21-23) busts, like in this example, Granberg.

Yes, some fans do this and I agree with your sentiment on this one. We need to be more patient with the prospects, and have more good ones in the pipeline as well.

 

[Kurisu]

Fraser isn't even an NHL caliber defencemen. This team lacks legit top 4 defencemen with hockey sense.

 

[showtime8]

Here's the deal. When you go against the grain and it works in your favor,everyone else is left catching up. You can build a defense that is not as talented offensively but treacherous and no fun to play against. Reilly's our offensive elite guy and you can get away with just one like him. The rest to varying degrees tough and talented defense first players.

The league isn't very tough and if for some stroke of foresight a management team constructs a tough talented group ahead of the curve,your in business. I think defense should be treated as such. The importance placed on a abundance of offense is not something I would worry about because we have Reilly already. The tougher our defense is to play against the better I think.

All players on the team with a mix of volatility is to my liking. Yeah you need it.

I think that you're right with this.

You can't have a defence that is full of guys like Gardiner and Rielly. The important part of the word defenceman is defence. That's the part that the Leafs should focus on going forward.

While you do need guys that can move the puck up the ice, it was far to easy to play in the Leafs zone this season and there were countless times that the goalie would be run or crashed into and nothing done about it. While you don't have to fight every time, someone should have facewashed someone or at the very least pushed him back.

I'd be okay with a defence full of Roman Polak's if it meant that the Leafs gave up half a goal less per game and actually ran someone for touching the goaltender.

Adam McQuaid might be the best target in free agency because you could give him big money on a short term deal and he can eat up some minutes, while adding some physicality.

 

[hockeyes]

You need team toughness and while a role guy might help, at the end of the day, it's up to the guys playing top minutes to play hard and play tough. Who cares if Fraser rolls around the ice for 14 minutes leveling every 3rd/4th liner in his sight when the moment he steps off the ice the team becomes butter again.

Fraser was easy to like, he played hard and that's really the only thing fans want to see consistently from the players. If the team sucks, that's on management for assembling players without enough skill but the effort should and could be there all the time.

Really, this thread should just be "The importance of having players who give an honest effort".

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I think that you're right with this.

You can't have a defence that is full of guys like Gardiner and Rielly. The important part of the word defenceman is defence. That's the part that the Leafs should focus on going forward.

While you do need guys that can move the puck up the ice, it was far to easy to play in the Leafs zone this season and there were countless times that the goalie would be run or crashed into and nothing done about it. While you don't have to fight every time, someone should have facewashed someone or at the very least pushed him back.

I'd be okay with a defence full of Roman Polak's if it meant that the Leafs gave up half a goal less per game and actually ran someone for touching the goaltender.

Adam McQuaid might be the best target in free agency because you could give him big money on a short term deal and he can eat up some minutes, while adding some physicality.

The Rangers without having traded for Yandle would have their top scoring defenseman 45 in league scoring by defensemen. That team is built with forwards that play a good all round defensive game consistently also though. The toughness and determination is present all through their lineup.

Our top six forwards physically rate way below average. Its a very weak point of the team in general actually. There is so much to fix. Hopefully there is the virtue to be patient in attempting to.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

I think if I intentionally tried building a soft team that it would be hard to out do what Nonis has done in that regard.

 

[613Leafer]

We need high motors + high hockey IQ. Get a bunch of players like that, even if not overly skilled, and our team defence should start to improve.

Big slow physical defencemen who lack hockey IQ, guys like Komi, Fraser, L. Schenn, etc? These guys didnt do a good job for us defensively. They either did ok with bottom pairing/sheltered minutes, or struggled when asked to actually defend against NHL scoring lines.

Who cares if they can clear the front of the net if they're out of position and too slow to defend well off the rush.