The Hockey News Top 100 Defensemen of all-time (special edition magazine)

sr edler

gold is not reality
Mar 20, 2010
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Larionov had a poor first season then continued to be an integral part of the Wings even in his 40s.

Larionov's second season was even worse than his first one regarding per game production, it wasn't until Bure came over in 91–92 his offensive game really came along, and then he left for Switzerland for a year (for economic reasons) and was waived.

article_7e172bd0-33c5-469e-9a03-9b593876adc7.jpg


And when Larionov was over with Lugano, Bure became this superstar player scoring 60 goals and 110 points. Imagine someone at the conclusion of the 92–93 season telling you that when it's all said and done Igor Larionov will have played over 300 more NHL games (RS & playoffs combined) than Bure and be a triple SC champion.
 

Overrated

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Larionov's second season was even worse than his first one regarding per game production, it wasn't until Bure came over in 91–92 his offensive game really came along, and then he left for Switzerland for a year (for economic reasons) and was waived.

article_7e172bd0-33c5-469e-9a03-9b593876adc7.jpg


And when Larionov was over with Lugano, Bure became this superstar player scoring 60 goals and 110 points. Imagine someone at the conclusion of the 92–93 season telling you that when it's all said and done Igor Larionov will have played over 300 more NHL games (RS & playoffs combined) than Bure and be a triple SC champion.
Sad story Khmoutov and Bykov didn't join Kamensky. They outscored Larionov and Krutov so much in the Swiss league it's not even funny. The trio would be like the new Stastny brothers.
 
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wetcoast

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Larionov's second season was even worse than his first one regarding per game production, it wasn't until Bure came over in 91–92 his offensive game really came along, and then he left for Switzerland for a year (for economic reasons) and was waived.

article_7e172bd0-33c5-469e-9a03-9b593876adc7.jpg


And when Larionov was over with Lugano, Bure became this superstar player scoring 60 goals and 110 points. Imagine someone at the conclusion of the 92–93 season telling you that when it's all said and done Igor Larionov will have played over 300 more NHL games (RS & playoffs combined) than Bure and be a triple SC champion.

Larionov didn't leave the Canucks for economic reasons he left because if he had stayed then The USSR would have received a payment from the Canucks/NHL.
 

wetcoast

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Sad story Khmoutov and Bykov didn't join Kamensky. They outscored Larionov and Krutov so much in the Swiss league it's not even funny. The trio would be like the new Stastny brothers.

Why would they have?

1. They left for the Swiss league a year before Kamensky left for the NHL and when in 94-95 during the lockout, Kamensky joined a rival Swiss team to boot.

2. I think the 2 Russians liked their easy time in the Swiss league with the shorter schedule and less demanding hockey.
 

wetcoast

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That sounds like economic reasons.

It might be a distinction without a difference but most people reading it would have thought that either the Canucks couldn't afford him of that Larionov would make more money on another team (which very well may have been as I'm going off memory and I don't remember if the payment to the Russian federation was extra or part of his salary).

I looked it up and indeed Sovintersport would have received a portion of his salary.
 
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buffalowing88

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Can’t really take the “fAsCiSt” remark seriously, but if anything they are certainly sexist fratboy jocks, and extremely cringeworthy at times (though they’ve adjusted some of the more questionable parts of their old banter), one calls himself liberal and one supported Trump, but they’re great at creating an environment where hockey players feel comfortable expressing themselves, though obviously retired players are the better interviews in this regard. SC is a pretty awesome source for stories from past NHL generations, different minor leagues, the KHL, about different people and personalities in hockey, from people who were there. I don’t think you could do that show quite as well without the cringeworthy pubescent locker room banter.

I’m not sure I would name any of them authorities on player evaluation though. Comparing any active player to Orr is cheap as hell, and it happens every goddamned year with someone. Whitney more than Bissonette probably can make worthwhile arguments about what it is with certain defensemen that makes them so good, but that’s not saying too much. Whitney definitely tends to sound tremendously clueless about any hockey prior to his late teens and relies pretty heavily on hockeydb statlines unless he’s interviewing a former teammate or has been clued in on what to ask by someone else. RA has a tendency to ask dud questions about weirdly specific moments or whatnot, but it’s apparent he’s been around the game for a while longer and either remembers old stories and moments, or does actual research prior to interviews.

Agree with your assessment, I'm just not going to judge a person by who they voted for in 2016. If we do that, you're gonna hate a lot of the guys still living in the Top 100, too.

But yeah, you captured it better than I did so I owe you that. You've always been respectful of my posts and I'll do the same. I appreciate the fact that you backed yours up :)
 
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Johnny Engine

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Agree with your assessment, I'm just not going to judge a person by who they voted for in 2016. If we do that, you're gonna hate a lot of the guys still living in the Top 100, too.

But yeah, you captured it better than I did so I owe you that. You've always been respectful of my posts and I'll do the same. I appreciate the fact that you backed yours up :)
It's worth noting that a large amount of the Barstool hate out there comes from the parent company itself, not Spittin' Chiclets. I'm not here to litigate whether Dave Portnoy is a bad person or whether the company behaves unethically, but the important thing is that Chiclets would receive flak for that association regardless of the content of their show.
 

Neutrinos

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Re: Makar & Orr

If you took Orr exactly how he was during his peak (so without having benefited from modern training programs), fitted him with modern equipment, and had him replace Makar in Colorado's lineup, do you think he'd produce to the same degree?

Also, how big a difference would there be between Orr in today's NHL exactly how he was vs Orr in today's NHL with the benefit of modern training?
 

Dennis Bonvie

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Re: Makar & Orr

If you took Orr exactly how he was during his peak (so without having benefited from modern training programs), fitted him with modern equipment, and had him replace Makar in Colorado's lineup, do you think he'd produce to the same degree?

Also, how big a difference would there be between Orr in today's NHL exactly how he was vs Orr in today's NHL with the benefit of modern training?

Orr would certainly have better knees today.
 

bobholly39

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Mar 10, 2013
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Re: Makar & Orr

If you took Orr exactly how he was during his peak (so without having benefited from modern training programs), fitted him with modern equipment, and had him replace Makar in Colorado's lineup, do you think he'd produce to the same degree?

Also, how big a difference would there be between Orr in today's NHL exactly how he was vs Orr in today's NHL with the benefit of modern training?

If you give him a month or two of training and getting used to today's game/speed - yes, he'd be better.

If you dropped him in cold - i dunno, 50/50 chance he gets taken out to injury before getting used to the game
 

VanIslander

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And yet Igor won the room in chess (seriously heavy) and was "the Professor"; Bowmsn was asked who he left a room with? And he didn't stutter: Larionov. I wish i could re--write hockey crappy history. Larionov's greatness in terms of posirioning for passing and defending is SUBLIME TOP10 NHL HISTORY territory.

I have thought Sergei Makarov top 30 all time but my bones would never choose him in a pick-up game over Larionov.

Propp - Larionov - C.Lemieux
Bourque, Orr
Hasek

*gauntlent thrown*

You have every Oiler, Isles & Penguin ever!
 

buffalowing88

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It's worth noting that a large amount of the Barstool hate out there comes from the parent company itself, not Spittin' Chiclets. I'm not here to litigate whether Dave Portnoy is a bad person or whether the company behaves unethically, but the important thing is that Chiclets would receive flak for that association regardless of the content of their show.

But that's the part that bothers me, and I appreciate you giving me a full response. I just don't know what Barstool is doing in 2022 that is deserving of flak to begin with. They're a much different organization than they were in, say, 2016, when they were very much people I would agree with demonizing.

Today...not so much. But that's neither here nor there, I just think it's lazy for any ideology to call out a major content source that is now mainstream as being biased. They all want the same clicks.
 

Overrated

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Jan 16, 2018
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And yet Igor won the room in chess (seriously heavy) and was "the Professor"; Bowmsn was asked who he left a room with? And he didn't stutter: Larionov. I wish i could re--write hockey crappy history. Larionov's greatness in terms of posirioning for passing and defending is SUBLIME TOP10 NHL HISTORY territory.

I have thought Sergei Makarov top 30 all time but my bones would never choose him in a pick-up game over Larionov.

Propp - Larionov - C.Lemieux
Bourque, Orr
Hasek

*gauntlent thrown*

You have every Oiler, Isles & Penguin ever!
if you look at any old school Soviet compilation Makarov looks by far the most impressive even in playmaking


not to mention he outscored every Soviet player in the home league even the guys from the 70s
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
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To back up Hrudey/current analysts blowing smoke up Makar's ass, Ryan Whitney said last week that Makar is the best defenseman he's seen in years and compared him to Orr.

Before the bArStOoL gUyS aRe fAcIsTs rebuttals, Whitney is pretty highly regarded among the NHL player community and is not one for exaggerating.

I personally don't quite see it and I still am not putting Makar ahead of peak-Karlsson or Doughty in particular from the past decade or so. But it's out there and people seem to think it's legit. Whitney said that Makar's side-to-side skating is Orr-esque and I can see that, at least.

Serious question, how much do we think Whitney really knows about Orr as a player?

Whitney's 39 years old. He wasn't alive when Orr played, and for that matter has little-to-no functional memory of Paul Coffey. Has he really put that much time into watching video of these guys, not just highlight clips but actually sitting down and analyzing what made them great? Do we think he has a real base of knowledge to make that judgment?

I'm not trying to condescend to him. Maybe he really has put in the work on this, I just don't know. I give full credibility to him saying that Makar is the best defenseman that he's seen in years, because he would know that from direct personal experience (more credibly than the rest of us, frankly). His ability to evaluate a modern player against a 1970s player is a question mark to me.
 

BigBadBruins7708

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Dec 11, 2017
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Re: Makar & Orr

If you took Orr exactly how he was during his peak (so without having benefited from modern training programs), fitted him with modern equipment, and had him replace Makar in Colorado's lineup, do you think he'd produce to the same degree?

Also, how big a difference would there be between Orr in today's NHL exactly how he was vs Orr in today's NHL with the benefit of modern training?

Orr with fixed knees (modern arthroscopic surgery fixes them easily), a composite stick and modern skates would dominate the league IMO. We overstate how much "modern training" makes a difference for the top 1% players. For the average guy yes its a factor, but an all time elite is an all time elite. Especially 70s vs today. It's not nearly as drastic as look at someone from the 20s vs today

Hell, there have been videos matching Orr's skating clips to McDavid's and Orr is just as fast on tube skates as him
 
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Davenport

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Which of the players seen on the cover of that edition of The Hockey News had to wait two seasons to be inducted in to the Hockey Hall of Fame?
 

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