Salary Cap: The Guds days are gone, now it's time to look forward

[Pancakes]

The Penguins would be better off trading Murray than paying him 10% of the cap. Having a fear of not being able to replace him isn't a justification to give him a blank check that he hasn't earned. If you can get a goalie like Lehner, Varlamov or Markstrom in free agency for a $5 million cap hit, you shouldn't be overpaying your current goalie to keep him.

No chance in hell they let Murray walk. He'll get paid, and they will sacrifice whatever else to keep him.

 

[Louis Hensler]

No chance in hell they let Murray walk. He'll get paid, and they will sacrifice whatever else to keep him.

Agree (unless he plays the rest of the season like last night, in which case Jarry will be starting).

 

[Empoleon8771]

No chance in hell they let Murray walk. He'll get paid, and they will sacrifice whatever else to keep him.

Why would they "let him walk"? You trade him if he's asking for too much money. Sacrificing other areas of your roster to pay an above average goalie based on nostalgia just just dumb IMO. You don't overpay him just because you won with him in the past, especially when you're such a serious cap crunch.

You'd be better off trading Murray and signing someone like Markstrom for $5 million over signing Murray for $8.5 million. That's just the truth in my eyes.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is Galchenyuk getting many offers from good orgs if he gets below 50 points though, making him a guy who hasn't cracked higher than 51 in three years (actually, four)?

Because between the injury and lack of PP time, I don't think it's unrealistic for him to both explode with Geno and get under 50 points.

The problem is that Galchenyuk's current pay makes it unlikely he gets what I'd consider a "fair" contract. If he'd actually be paid like a guy who hasn't cracked higher than 51 points in 4 years, that's one thing. However, him making $4.9 million right now makes me think he won't be paid more than like $5.25 or $5.5 million, and you start running into serious roster problems by keeping him at that price or higher.

 

[SEALBound]

Just for funzies:

Bjugstad for 2nd
Galchenyuk at the TDL for a 1st
Murray wants too much, so he goes to Calgary for a 1st

Sign Lehner to 5x5.

Jake-Sid-Simon
Rust-Malkin-Kahun
Lafferty-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Bleuger-Tanev

Dumo-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
Riikola-XXX

Lehner
CDS/TJ

Go into 2020 draft with 3 1sts, 1 2nd. Can look at a free agent dman or forward.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Far too early to go there. Unless MM is hurt and misses a chunk of time, I don't see how we determine that when TJ is only going to get ~20-30 games by the end of this season. That's one hell of a gamble to make when you know you have a legit #1 in MM.

Well MM hasn't stayed healthy enough to warrant the $7M figure. I mean how many more games will it be before he's hurt again?

Dude has missed significant chunks of time. He's definitely no Broduer where you can roll him out there 60+ games.

I wouldn't pay a goalie (forget the name because all starters are pretty fungible) more than $6.5M in this day and age
The Penguins shouldn't pay that either.

 

[Peat]

I'm just not sure what kind of D I would be targeting, because I just don't know how I feel about a Pettersson-Marino middle pair. Like I think you may need to upgrade on one of those guys, but I have no clue which.

This is a valid point and to a certain extent, I think its close enough that you can just go whichever way the market offers. Is, say, Krug-Marino a worthy 2nd line on paper (assuming the right development)? Yes. Is Pettersson-Petry also worthy? Yes. And would whichever guy you have on the third pairing be a worthy guy to tentpole that pairing? Yes.

I also think you need to trade a forward to create a spot for that Chucky replacement, but that can be someone like ZAR.

If you trade JJ, Bjugstad and ZAR without taking any money back, you have about $10 million in space with this lineup:

Guentzel-Crosby-Simon
XXXXX-Malkin-Rust
Kahun-McCann-Hornqvist
Tanev-Blueger-Lafferty
Johnson-Blandisi

Dumoulin-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
Riikola-XXXXX
Ruhwedel

Murray-DeSmith

If you re-sign Galchenyuk or bring in a comparable 2nd line LW for Malkin, I think that takes up about half of that available space. Maybe you go after a guy like Dillon in free agency to fill the last D spot? See if he'd agree to a shorter term, $4ish million AAV deal?

I'd been thinking someone better than Dillon. Hope a guy on a good contract shakes lose in trade. But if you can't... frankly, I'd rather trade one of the re-upped RFAs and have about 12-13m with which to go after these two guys, which is plenty.

Why would they "let him walk"? You trade him if he's asking for too much money. Sacrificing other areas of your roster to pay an above average goalie based on nostalgia just just dumb IMO. You don't overpay him just because you won with him in the past, especially when you're such a serious cap crunch.

You'd be better off trading Murray and signing someone like Markstrom for $5 million over signing Murray for $8.5 million. That's just the truth in my eyes.

If Murray is genuinely in a place to ask for 8.5m and not just be laughed out of the room until he comes back agreeing to less, than Markstrom is in a position to get more than 5m as a UFA. If Kuemper - a fairly similar, less proven if slightly better performing (although not so much when accounting for defensive performances iirc) gets 4.5m at the start of the season, think I think Markstrom can probably push at least 500k and possibly more past 5m on the open market. And if he can't, it's because we don't actually want him. Or to use another comparable - Varlamov got 5m after a rather drab year with a last minute cap squeeze, and that's before the traditional yearly inflation.

The problem is that Galchenyuk's current pay makes it unlikely he gets what I'd consider a "fair" contract. If he'd actually be paid like a guy who hasn't cracked higher than 51 points in 4 years, that's one thing. However, him making $4.9 million right now makes me think he won't be paid more than like $5.25 or $5.5 million, and you start running into serious roster problems by keeping him at that price or higher.

But if he can put up a 40 5v5 pace with Malkin and the line can be at 55 GF%, isn't that worth causing problems for? And who else would we be able to get who could do that whose cap wouldn't cause problems? And if you can't get that, don't you have a serious roster problem on line 2 anyway? Better to have it down the lineup than up, right?

And how many problems is it actually causing? You just listed a possible 23 man roster that would have about 10m's worth of space to give to a LW for Malkin and a 3D. Yet now you're telling me that giving Malkin's LW 5.5m would cause serious roster problems? I can't help but think this is one or the other.

 

[ownal]

Just for funzies:

Bjugstad for 2nd
Galchenyuk at the TDL for a 1st
Murray wants too much, so he goes to Calgary for a 1st

Sign Lehner to 5x5.

Jake-Sid-Simon
Rust-Malkin-Kahun
Lafferty-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Bleuger-Tanev

Dumo-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
Riikola-XXX

Lehner
CDS/TJ

Go into 2020 draft with 3 1sts, 1 2nd. Can look at a free agent dman or forward.

I want to ask Horny to waive his NTC and get sent off for a 2nd as well.

 

[TKalltheTime]

Just for funzies:

Bjugstad for 2nd
Galchenyuk at the TDL for a 1st
Murray wants too much, so he goes to Calgary for a 1st

Sign Lehner to 5x5.

Jake-Sid-Simon
Rust-Malkin-Kahun
Lafferty-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Bleuger-Tanev

Dumo-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
Riikola-XXX

Lehner
CDS/TJ

Go into 2020 draft with 3 1sts, 1 2nd. Can look at a free agent dman or forward.

I doubt you get a 2nd for Puke.
I highly doubt you get a 1st for AG
Only moving MM for a 1st? Naw

I kinda hate the idea of RL 5x5...

 

[Peat]

Murray wants too much, so he goes to Calgary for a 1st

Sign Lehner to 5x5.

If Lehner repeats last year, he's probably within a million of Murray. Maybe closer. If he doesn't, why do you want him?

I wouldn't pay a goalie (forget the name because all starters are pretty fungible) more than $6.5M in this day and age
The Penguins shouldn't pay that either.

This probably means the best goaltender you can get, barring Jarry hitting his ceiling rapidly, is Markstrom, maybe Nashville's back-up, maybe one of Arizona's (but the one they'd trade in those circs is more injury prone than Murray). Or, I dunno, Greiss or Halak? Reimer?

This strikes me as a pretty bad idea.

I want to ask Horny to waive his NTC and get sent off for a 2nd as well.

Is there any particular reason you want to give away a reliable 50 point plus, two way player for a bag of pucks?

 

[Zirakzigil]

Just for funzies:

Bjugstad for 2nd
Galchenyuk at the TDL for a 1st
Murray wants too much, so he goes to Calgary for a 1st

Sign Lehner to 5x5.

Jake-Sid-Simon
Rust-Malkin-Kahun
Lafferty-McCann-Hornqvist
ZAR-Bleuger-Tanev

Dumo-Letang
Pettersson-Marino
Riikola-XXX

Lehner
CDS/TJ

Go into 2020 draft with 3 1sts, 1 2nd. Can look at a free agent dman or forward.

That roster...... Id hate to watch it and it couldnt score its way out of a brothel. I know you posted it just for fun, but I am in the camp of lets keep going all in while we still have Sid and Geno. When they are gone scorched earth rebuild with Uncle Gary's help.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

I'd been thinking someone better than Dillon.

Other Tanev?

 

[Empoleon8771]

This is a valid point and to a certain extent, I think its close enough that you can just go whichever way the market offers. Is, say, Krug-Marino a worthy 2nd line on paper (assuming the right development)? Yes. Is Pettersson-Petry also worthy? Yes. And would whichever guy you have on the third pairing be a worthy guy to tentpole that pairing? Yes.

The thing is that I don't think you need a much better player than either Marino or Pettersson for the 2nd pair. I think a MP-Schultz 2nd pair is perfectly good enough, while Petry and Krug are way better than Schultz. I like the Dillon idea because you're getting a better version of what Johnson is supposed to be, plus you have the ability to run with MP-Riikola on your 3rd pair.

If Murray is genuinely in a place to ask for 8.5m and not just be laughed out of the room until he comes back agreeing to less, than Markstrom is in a position to get more than 5m as a UFA. If Kuemper - a fairly similar, less proven if slightly better performing (although not so much when accounting for defensive performances iirc) gets 4.5m at the start of the season, think I think Markstrom can probably push at least 500k and possibly more past 5m on the open market. And if he can't, it's because we don't actually want him. Or to use another comparable - Varlamov got 5m after a rather drab year with a last minute cap squeeze, and that's before the traditional yearly inflation.

With Lehner and Varlamov both getting $5 million last off-season, I think $5 million for Markstrom is a very fair estimation. Same thing with what Howard got, and I think Kuemper really isn't that different from Markstrom either. I think the $5 million area is pretty standard for average starting goalies, so I don't think Markstrom at $5 million is exactly a ridiculous suggestion. He's a very consistent .910-.915 starting goalie, I don't think he's good enough to get a huge payday in free agency. Especially considering what Varlamov got last year and how saturated the goalie market is right now.

But if he can put up a 40 5v5 pace with Malkin and the line can be at 55 GF%, isn't that worth causing problems for? And who else would we be able to get who could do that whose cap wouldn't cause problems? And if you can't get that, don't you have a serious roster problem on line 2 anyway? Better to have it down the lineup than up, right?

And how many problems is it actually causing? You just listed a possible 23 man roster that would have about 10m's worth of space to give to a LW for Malkin and a 3D. Yet now you're telling me that giving Malkin's LW 5.5m would cause serious roster problems? I can't help but think this is one or the other.

No because I think Kahun can do that too. And who they'd be able to get that wouldn't cause problems, I think it's Kahun. And the "serious roster problems" come when you're limited at having JJ or a JJ priced player as your only addition to the defense, which can easily be argued isn't good enough from the defense.

 

[Peat]

Other Tanev?

Not a terrible shout actually if you think Pettersson should be the offensive guy on his pairing and that Marino isn't quite ready.

Well, that is until you consider what happens when you bring a player than injury prone here. I mean, the amount of time he'd spend injured is so obvious I think you could actually sue Rutherford for conspiracy to commit injury in that scenario.

Jokes aside, I'd rather not have two very injury prone RDs. But... you know, still not an awful idea.

 

[SEALBound]

I doubt you get a 2nd for Puke.
I highly doubt you get a 1st for AG
Only moving MM for a 1st? Naw

I kinda hate the idea of RL 5x5...

I used Schneider and Jones as a comparable. I assume there would be a small prospect addition/swap or a pick swap. Just the main piece would be a 1st in the deep 2020 draft.

I feel a 5x5 for Lehner would be a good deal. He played remarkably well for Buffalo who was garbage defensively. He's 28 so this would bring him to 33. Jarry is 24 and that would bring him to 29 which would be ideal to have him take over and hopefully in that time, we've developed another young goalie talent.

That roster...... Id hate to watch it and it couldnt score its way out of a brothel. I know you posted it just for fun, but I am in the camp of lets keep going all in while we still have Sid and Geno. When they are gone scorched earth rebuild with Uncle Gary's help.

Explain to me how that roster is all that different than the roster that busted out a couple 7 goal games recently?

If Lehner repeats last year, he's probably within a million of Murray. Maybe closer. If he doesn't, why do you want him?

I assume it would be $1mil or so less but you also get a 1st. Lehner+1st for $6mil or Murray at $7mil. Who that 1st ends up being is anyones guess. But if Lehner's performance continues, it's at least a decent discussion to have. You don't have to advocate either way to have the discussion. Just a thought experiment more than anything.

 

[Empoleon8771]

One more thing to add, I think the really damning thing for re-signing Galchenyuk at a big payday is who else the Penguins have on their roster. Even if Galchenyuk puts up 40 5v5 points per 82 games, is that really that much better than what you'd get out of McCann or Kahun in that role? McCann has like a 25 goal, 40 point pace with the Penguins so far, all of which is at ES or SH. Kahun put up 35 ES points and 33 5v5 points last year as a rookie with Toews. Is it really worth paying Galchenyuk $6 million a year when you can get slightly worse production (if at all worse) out of McCann or Kahun on that LW? That doesn't mention that their all-around play is much better and they fit the style of play better.

I think that if you let Galchenyuk walk, you just have to acquire another skilled winger. It doesn't have to be a top-6 player, because I think the Penguins have multiple 2nd line caliber LWers available if you consider Galchenyuk a 2nd line caliber LWer. If Bjugstad figures his stuff out and fits as the 3C, I actually think there's an argument that you're completely set with this forward group:

Guentzel-Crosby-Simon
McCann-Makin-Rust
Kahun-Bjugstad-Hornqvist
Tanev-Blueger-Lafferty

 

[Peat]

The thing is that I don't think you need a much better player than either Marino or Pettersson for the 2nd pair. I think a MP-Schultz 2nd pair is perfectly good enough, while Petry and Krug are way better than Schultz. I like the Dillon idea because you're getting a better version of what Johnson is supposed to be, plus you have the ability to run with MP-Riikola on your 3rd pair.

Need? Maybe not.

Want? Yes. Having two pairings like a 2nd pairing is nice in the bottom 4, but its not as nice as having two pairings verging on being 1st pairings in the top 4.

And either JJ has got magically better and doesn't need replacing, or Marino can carry a pretty average player into being a strong bottom pairing guy anyway. You don't need a 4m guy on the bottom pairing with Marino there. Also, wait, are you saying Dillon-Marino is the second pairing?

With Lehner and Varlamov both getting $5 million last off-season, I think $5 million for Markstrom is a very fair estimation. Same thing with what Howard got, and I think Kuemper really isn't that different from Markstrom either. I think the $5 million area is pretty standard for average starting goalies, so I don't think Markstrom at $5 million is exactly a ridiculous suggestion. He's a very consistent .910-.915 starting goalie, I don't think he's good enough to get a huge payday in free agency. Especially considering what Varlamov got last year and how saturated the goalie market is right now.

Prices keep going up. A 5m standard one season becomes a 5.5m or 6m standard very quickly - particularly when last off-season was unusual with the last minute massively lower cap estimate (we all know a lot of players went for less than expected, right?).

And while there are a lot of impending goalie UFAs...

Holtby - Good
Crawford - Probably finished.
Lehner - Good
Anderson - Probably either not good or finished
Howard - Probably either not good or finished
Markstrom - Good
Greiss - 33's a hell of an age to break out from being a good platoon guy/mediocre starter
Halak - 34 but ditto
Talbot - Probably not good
Khudobin - Backup

Etc.etc. There's three proven starters available. There's a lot of ageing gambles, I'm sure one will reward whoever signs them, but not much reliable quality. I don't think that should count as saturated.

And sure, maybe Markstrom or whoever would sign here at 5m. But I wouldn't count on it. He could almost certainly get more elsewhere.

No because I think Kahun can do that too. And who they'd be able to get that wouldn't cause problems, I think it's Kahun. And the "serious roster problems" come when you're limited at having JJ or a JJ priced player as your only addition to the defense, which can easily be argued isn't good enough from the defense.

You have a fair bit more faith in Kahun than I do, both as a player in general and a fit for Malkin. And see above for why I'm not that fussed by a JJ/JJ-priced player on the defence (and given your post pointing out Marino-JJ's excellent numbers, are you really that fussed yourself?) and even if I was, I'd regard the 2nd line as more important than the 3rd pairing, and even if I wanted to give riches to both, I'd start shaving a well paid RFA off the third line before touching the 2nd if it looked great. That's if, of course. No guarantee.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

This probably means the best goaltender you can get, barring Jarry hitting his ceiling rapidly, is Markstrom, maybe Nashville's back-up, maybe one of Arizona's (but the one they'd trade in those circs is more injury prone than Murray). Or, I dunno, Greiss or Halak? Reimer?

This strikes me as a pretty bad idea.

What's wrong with a Halak/Jarry tandem? They'd likely perform around the same as MM at a fraction of the cost.

Again, there is a negligible difference between the Top 5 to say 17 starting goalies in this league. And even those who are ranked below that aren't that far from competent goaltending.

Paying goalies big dollars in this NHL is foolish

 

[Zirakzigil]

Explain to me how that roster is all that different than the roster that busted out a couple 7 goal games recently?

Id rather not pray and hope the callup kids can sustain that production over an entire year. That lineup only has 3 bona fide top 6 forwards.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Need? Maybe not.

Want? Yes. Having two pairings like a 2nd pairing is nice in the bottom 4, but its not as nice as having two pairings verging on being 1st pairings in the top 4.

And either JJ has got magically better and doesn't need replacing, or Marino can carry a pretty average player into being a strong bottom pairing guy anyway. You don't need a 4m guy on the bottom pairing with Marino there. Also, wait, are you saying Dillon-Marino is the second pairing?

Yes, Dillon-Marino would be my 2nd pair and Pettersson-Riikola would be the 3rd pair. That's less me saying "I think Marino is better than Pettersson" and more me saying "I like Dillon as a target more than any RD that they can reasonably acquire".

You have a fair bit more faith in Kahun than I do, both as a player in general and a fit for Malkin. And see above for why I'm not that fussed by a JJ/JJ-priced player on the defence (and given your post pointing out Marino-JJ's excellent numbers, are you really that fussed yourself?) and even if I was, I'd regard the 2nd line as more important than the 3rd pairing, and even if I wanted to give riches to both, I'd start shaving a well paid RFA off the third line before touching the 2nd if it looked great. That's if, of course. No guarantee.

All of my assumptions do not include Johnson on the roster. My $10 million figure for a 2nd line LW and a 2nd pair D include the assumption that ZAR, Bjugstad and Johnson have been traded without taking any money back. The roster you have is XXXXX-Malkin-Rust as the 2nd line, XXXXX-Marino or Pettersson-XXXXX as the 2nd pair and Riikola with one of Pettersson or Marino as the 3rd pair. If you pay too much for Galchenyuk, you're going to pay for it by having less money for that 2nd pair D. That's why I'm saying that paying Galchenyuk would limit them to a JJ priced player, because Galchenyuk at $6 million likely limits them to a $3 million or so defenseman to add to the 2nd pair.

 

[Peat]

I assume it would be $1mil or so less but you also get a 1st. Lehner+1st for $6mil or Murray at $7mil. Who that 1st ends up being is anyones guess. But if Lehner's performance continues, it's at least a decent discussion to have. You don't have to advocate either way to have the discussion. Just a thought experiment more than anything.

Fair enough - just wanted to point out that people were probably underselling the costs of other goaltenders.

As for the discussion... when you come down to it, I think other than Sid, Geno, and some years Letang, there's basically nobody on this roster where you wouldn't win by trading them for futures then signing the dream UFA target for a fair price. I think that's a constant of hockey. And it's constantly rare, because getting the dream UFA to land is harder than herding cats.

One more thing to add, I think the really damning thing for re-signing Galchenyuk at a big payday is who else the Penguins have on their roster. Even if Galchenyuk puts up 40 5v5 points per 82 games, is that really that much better than what you'd get out of McCann or Kahun in that role? McCann has like a 25 goal, 40 point pace with the Penguins so far, all of which is at ES or SH. Kahun put up 35 ES points and 33 5v5 points last year as a rookie with Toews. Is it really worth paying Galchenyuk $6 million a year when you can get slightly worse production (if at all worse) out of McCann or Kahun on that LW? That doesn't mention that their all-around play is much better and they fit the style of play better.

I think that if you let Galchenyuk walk, you just have to acquire another skilled winger. It doesn't have to be a top-6 player, because I think the Penguins have multiple 2nd line caliber LWers available if you consider Galchenyuk a 2nd line caliber LWer. If Bjugstad figures his stuff out and fits as the 3C, I actually think there's an argument that you're completely set with this forward group:

Guentzel-Crosby-Simon
McCann-Makin-Rust
Kahun-Bjugstad-Hornqvist
Tanev-Blueger-Lafferty

I would 100% throw the extra money at the 40 point winger over the 35 point winger. That extra quality matters. The fact that the 40 point winger gives you an extra dimension, where as the cheaper ones are more of the same you have elsewhere in the line up, also matters to me.

And in this case, it would be easily paid for by shipping out the 35 point winger and keeping the 30 point winger in ZAR.

I also, independently, don't think I've ever really seen a guy like Kahun prosper next to McCann.

What's wrong with a Halak/Jarry tandem? They'd likely perform around the same as MM at a fraction of the cost.

Again, there is a negligible difference between the Top 5 to say 17 starting goalies in this league. And even those who are ranked below that aren't that far from competent goaltending.

Paying goalies big dollars in this NHL is foolish

Because I don't trust either to carry the load if the other turns into a pumpkin, or in the playoffs. Which I do with Murray. And if I didn't, I'd want a goaltender comparable to what Murray should be. Fair enough if you disagree - but I do find it odd that you say that goalies shouldn't get big money while also saying there's only 17 competent starting goalies in the league (even if the others aren't that far from competent). Me, I'd have thought it well worth big money to be part of the 17 and not the remaining 14.

Yes, Dillon-Marino would be my 2nd pair and Pettersson-Riikola would be the 3rd pair. That's less me saying "I think Marino is better than Pettersson" and more me saying "I like Dillon as a target more than any RD that they can reasonably acquire".

Fair enough. I think you're aiming low. And maybe overrating Marino's offensive prowess. Marino and Riikola would have big steps to take for me to consider that defence a good idea (particularly with Riikola on his off-side).

All of my assumptions do not include Johnson on the roster. My $10 million figure for a 2nd line LW and a 2nd pair D include the assumption that ZAR, Bjugstad and Johnson have been traded without taking any money back. The roster you have is XXXXX-Malkin-Rust as the 2nd line, XXXXX-Marino or Pettersson-XXXXX as the 2nd pair and Riikola with one of Pettersson or Marino as the 3rd pair. If you pay too much for Galchenyuk, you're going to pay for it by having less money for that 2nd pair D. That's why I'm saying that paying Galchenyuk would limit them to a JJ priced player, because Galchenyuk at $6 million likely limits them to a $3 million or so defenseman to add to the 2nd pair.

Ah gotcha.

Then trade - and trade big if needed - for a guy you don't mind on the 2nd line who costs 3m or so. Or use one of those RFAs to trade for a 5m dman and keep ZAR. Or trade Bjugstad for that guy, which is (assuming an okay season) maybe easier than trading him for pure cap space anyway.

I think what I'm saying is, independent of players, I'm not down for cheaping out on the 2nd unit just to have more depth when filling out our depth with cheap inexpensive players doesn't look like an issue anyway.

 

[TKalltheTime]

People here suggesting dumping MM for Halak are the most "MEMBER that ONE playoff in 2010" type of people I've ever seen in my entire life. HAHA

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

People here suggesting dumping MM for Halak are the most "MEMBER that ONE playoff in 2010" type of people I've ever seen in my entire life. HAHA

You're thin slicing this debate without context. It's insulting to those who comprehend the nuance of a salary cap world.

If we're not talking salary, by all means I'd take MM any day of the week. He's younger and he's more consistent.

But factor in salary/value, and it's an entirely different ballgame

This isn't some yinzer "HURR DURR WE GOT HALAK'd SO I WANT HIM ON MY TEAM NOW!!"

 

[TKalltheTime]

You're thin slicing this debate without context. It's insulting to those who comprehend the nuance of a salary cap world.

If we're not talking salary, by all means I'd take MM any day of the week. He's younger and he's more consistent.

But factor in salary/value, and it's an entirely different ballgame

This isn't some yinzer "HURR DURR WE GOT HALAK'd SO I WANT HIM ON MY TEAM NOW!!"

Any way you slice it even taking in the higher salary cap hit with MM, you have a MUCH better team with him in net than Halak and anyone who thinks differently is stupid.

 

[molon labe]

He said he would trade Murray over a 600k difference in contracts.

Depends on the 600k tbh.

If MM wants 8+... I'm letting him get offer-sheeted to go play for some bottom feeder or trading him. I'd much rather convince Holtby to come here on the same 7 year term at 8-9M. At least he's proven all 3 of playoff success, regular season success, and regular season longevity. Muz needs to prove he's better than 50 games a year and that he can steal some games for us before he can command big-D* money.

The Pens are simply a sum of a lot of parts and an overpaid goalie is not one of them. We need to be better than a flip/flop box of chocolates with a nice smile - but we don't need a world beater.