Salary Cap: The Guds days are gone, now it's time to look forward

[Darren McCord]

Phoenix won’t. Their streaking right now.

True but maybe later in the season? They get a younger guy who they can afford to lock up for not much extra. If they can extend schultz for 5 or 6 years it might be worth it. They are similar players.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Edit: You finally address it in a later post and you still deny it will effect/affect him the team or anything else.

Tyler Meyers is a sloth and frankly an insult to Schultz.

Okay, so Tyler Myers is worse because.....you say so. That's your entire argument? Despite the fact that Myers produces just as much as Schultz, is much better analytically and has some use outside of his offense? And you're accusing me of not addressing your points?

You have a argument with Faulk but still not worthy. There's no proof to the contrary he is in fact better than Schultz.

Except for the fact that his analytics clearly paint him as better, he produces the same as Schultz despite playing for a much worse offensive team and is actually used in defensive roles.

To add, I have to provide proof that players who are obviously better than Schultz are better than Schultz, while you can just say "Schultz is on par or better because I say so"? Why is Schultz better than those guys? And no, just calling Myers a sloth and saying "it's an insult to compare him to Schultz" isn't an argument.

 

[Gurglesons]

I do think Schultz gets a lot of rope from this fan base for 16-17, which is ironic given how many treat Letang. But, I think Schultz’s peak has been much higher than Myers.

That being said I can agree with the fact Schultz has had a Myers like impact on our D since he signed for 5.5, and nothing he’s done so far this year makes me want to keep him moving forward.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I do think Schultz gets a lot of rope from this fan base for 16-17, which is ironic given how many treat Letang. But, I think Schultz’s peak has been much higher than Myers.

It is, but Schultz's peak is looking more and more like a 1 time thing. He's not the same player he was in Edmonton (I think he's less of an offensive threat but better defensively), but he has basically regressed back into being the same caliber of player he was in Edmonton. I think it makes a lot more sense to think that Schultz had an unsustainable year in 16-17 and is just a flawed #4 OFD, than his 16-17 is his normal and his play since has been poor for reasons that aren't him.

I know you don't disagree with me, that's just the point I'm making in this discussion.

 

[Gurglesons]

It is, but Schultz's peak is looking more and more like a 1 time thing. He's not the same player he was in Edmonton (I think he's less of an offensive threat but better defensively), but he has basically regressed back into being the same caliber of player he was in Edmonton. I think it makes a lot more sense to think that Schultz had an unsustainable year in 16-17 and is just a flawed #4 OFD, than his 16-17 is his normal and his play since has been poor for reasons that aren't him.

Yeah, I mean I was against signing him to begin with.

The issue is we painted ourselves in a corner. I think the smart thing would be to move him in season ala Cole and just gamble. It’s pretty obvious without some major D restructuring this team ain’t contending against Carolina, Boston or Tampa’s D in a 7 game series.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I think Schultz's highs are pretty high, yeah. But his lows (where he has resided the last couple of seasons) are often brutal.

I'm really hoping he's just having a slow start after missing a lot of last year. But I dunno. Right now, if given the choice in re-signing Schultz or cutting him loose and doing a blueline overhaul that likely needs done anyway, I know which one I'm choosing and it's not really even a contest.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I could see if Geno was coming off his 98 pt season but he has alot to prove after last year. And we know how that usually plays out. Also this is his first year away from Kessel and with a winger who fits his style.

Not dying alive.

That duo will be great. So while AG is prob ready now, They are deciding to take their time(can use the " we need to get Rust/Bjugs in too and don't want to mess with chemistry too much " excuse lol).. .so AGs point totals arent thru the roof by the end of season . Tempting him to go for that big contract instead of a few year extension here at a modest raise of 1.6 mil to get him to 6.5 a year.

Bringing back the guys who are already under contract and holding out the one whos a UFA.

Gotta notice the small things JR does

Watch him sign AG, McCann, Petts, etc first, leaving about 5 mil of cap space left for Murray. " If we had it youd be getting 8mil"

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah, I mean I was against signing him to begin with.

The issue is we painted ourselves in a corner. I think the smart thing would be to move him in season ala Cole and just gamble. It’s pretty obvious without some major D restructuring this team ain’t contending against Carolina, Boston or Tampa’s D in a 7 game series.

Eh, this is what I'm not sure about. I'm definitely not interested in re-signing him, but I don't want to gamble on trading him during the season unless you have another trade for a long-term top-4 RD lined up. I'd ship him out instantly if you did have a trade like that lined up, though.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

As for Schultz....if you have to question it....dont do it.

We complain about our overpaid D corps and get rid of 2 so far in Maatta and Guds. But if we sign JS to 7mil and something happens to him to impact his play(lets not act like that is far fetched...1. he's a Pen and 2. He has been hurt recently showing us how it did mess with his play) the JJ contract will be forgotten. And we could have a Seabrook situation on our hands.

There's risks with every contract but we usually avoid them. And in this situation, just happens to be that Marino came out of nowhere. Petts was added last year. While finally having legit D prospects. POJ almost ready. And Addison with a high ceiling...Future PP QB. Being our 2nd pair dman...replacing Schultz.

Also have cap space to add other dmen if needed. To replace JS in meantime.

Is the risk worth the reward? All you need to ask. And 7mil isn't worth it to me.

 

[66-30-33]

Rather move on from Schultz and look elsewhere.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

Eh, this is what I'm not sure about. I'm definitely not interested in re-signing him, but I don't want to gamble on trading him during the season unless you have another trade for a long-term top-4 RD lined up. I'd ship him out instantly if you did have a trade like that lined up, though.

Or to a team with a solid D corps but have to reup alot of their forwards. Could get his replacement who has another year or so, as well as a rental at forward(upgrade over Whoever the weak link is by then. Kahun or ZAR) .


That helps us this year and going forward if done right.

 

[Ryder71]

The Gudbranson trade affords us time to see how the pieces will fit once we get most everybody back. Before continuing to make moves (unless it involves JJ), I'd like to see what we have in house or more accurately how we play as a group. We're still a work in progress and we don't want to over correct anything while we're playing a pretty good brand of hockey (all things considered).

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The thing with Schultz is that, even if he struggles for the rest of the year, or is even pedestrian, he's going to get offers north of $6 million a year for 5 years or so. If he excels, he's getting Letang-money or more.

Trade him to some team desperate for blueline help at the deadline. He'll get a 1st rounder, I'm almost positive. Use that 1st rounder as part of a package to land a legit heir apparent to Letang. Try to find some way to land a partner for said heir apparent, and roll with a Petts-Marino bottom pairing moving forward.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Yeah, I mean I was against signing him to begin with.

The issue is we painted ourselves in a corner. I think the smart thing would be to move him in season ala Cole and just gamble. It’s pretty obvious without some major D restructuring this team ain’t contending against Carolina, Boston or Tampa’s D in a 7 game series.

That's because they keep stripping them instead of adding to them. Then adding non fits.

What you're purposing is exactly why the team ended up

Dumoulin, Letang
Maatta, Schultz
Oleksiak, Ruhwedel

Sent home.

it got way worse before it got better. That trend is going to happen again.

Just to put a little reality into this perceived thinking.

Everyone thought the team was better after the wash of players from the team after the cup runs. On paper.

No. They were not, and they kept making new holes.

I only trade Schultz if you don't plan on trying to contend. They spent so much effort talking 3-peat, yet, they do everything that doesn't suggest it. No depth at D and what do they do? Trade away a D-man.

Problem is, this team can't afford to let seasons wash away. They already flushed 2.

I'm watching Sid, he still there but at times his speed is failing him even. When the puck is on his stick or along the boards he's himself, but if he's trying to outrace someone for it he's not able, and you see him stop trying at times and just makes sure he's getting back.

This is a dismantling and a trial at gaining back what once was.

I'm not for subtraction, unless you are content with sacrificing for the future.

Otherwise this team is going by way of the Deadwings. Each year is getting more dead as the stars age.

You load up, if your serious.

 

[Gurglesons]

That's because they keep stripping them instead of adding to them. Then adding non fits.

What you're purposing is exactly why the team ended up

Dumoulin, Letang
Maatta, Schultz
Oleksiak, Ruhwedel

Sent home.

it got way worse before it got better. That trend is going to happen again.

Just to put a little reality into this perceived thinking.

Everyone thought the team was better after the wash of players from the team after the cup runs. On paper.

No. They were not, and they kept making new holes.

I only trade Schultz if you don't plan on trying to contend. They spent so much effort talking 3-peat, yet, they do everything that doesn't suggest it. No depth at D and what do they do? Trade away a D-man.

Problem is, this team can't afford to let seasons wash away. They already flushed 2.

I'm watching Sid, he still there but at times his speed is failing him even. When the puck is on his stick or along the boards he's himself, but if he's trying to outrace someone for it he's not able, and you see him stop trying at times and just makes sure he's getting back.

This is a dismantling and a trial at gaining back what once was.

I'm not for subtraction, unless you are content with sacrificing for the future.

Otherwise this team is going by way of the Deadwings. Each year is getting more dead as the stars age.

You load up, if your serious.

I doubt we are a surefire contender this year. Moving Schultz will give us pieces to become a contenders moving forward and we are likely losing him regardless.

The more cap space we open up the more likely we are able to get out of the JJ deal also.

 

[Ugene Magic]

As for Schultz....if you have to question it....dont do it.

We complain about our overpaid D corps and get rid of 2 so far in Maatta and Guds. But if we sign JS to 7mil and something happens to him to impact his play(lets not act like that is far fetched...1. he's a Pen and 2. He has been hurt recently showing us how it did mess with his play) the JJ contract will be forgotten. And we could have a Seabrook situation on our hands.

There's risks with every contract but we usually avoid them. And in this situation, just happens to be that Marino came out of nowhere. Petts was added last year. While finally having legit D prospects. POJ almost ready. And Addison with a high ceiling...Future PP QB. Being our 2nd pair dman...replacing Schultz.

Also have cap space to add other dmen if needed. To replace JS in meantime.

Is the risk worth the reward? All you need to ask. And 7mil isn't worth it to me.

That's not with this team though, if he is comfortable he'll come down here even if you have to make it 6/7 years, also having it fluctuate and pay him up front to get that cap hit down. But he won't be doing other team favors on the open market.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I just don't think Schultz is very good, nor do I think he's a legit candidate to replace Letang's role/production when Letang's likely done at the end of this contract. Now is the perfect time to aggressively pursue a guy who can grow into that role in a few years. I wish we could've nabbed Dougie Hamilton or Trouba, they would've been perfect.

For the record, I like where we're headed but there's still lots of work to be done before we're legit contenders, imo. Keep working, and keep making moves to make this team stronger moving forward. I think this season is a transitional year for the club, and we should treat it as such. If we miss the playoffs, so be it. I don't think we're in a spot to do any damage in the post season as is, even if JR goes all dumb and spends big for a playoff push. Too many pieces need to be swapped out and replaced with better fits.

 

[Malkinstheman]

LOL...39 year old Caron

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Holy crap what's The Chiodo Dragon up to while we're at it?

 

[Gurglesons]

Once again. St Louis moved Shattenkirk and the return was a huge part of their cup win.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I just don't think Schultz is very good, nor do I think he's a legit candidate to replace Letang's role/production when Letang's likely done at the end of this contract. Now is the perfect time to aggressively pursue a guy who can grow into that role in a few years. I wish we could've nabbed Dougie Hamilton or Trouba, they would've been perfect.

For the record, I like where we're headed but there's still lots of work to be done before we're legit contenders, imo. Keep working, and keep making moves to make this team stronger moving forward. I think this season is a transitional year for the club, and we should treat it as such. If we miss the playoffs, so be it. I don't think we're in a spot to do any damage in the post season as is, even if JR goes all dumb and spends big for a playoff push. Too many pieces need to be swapped out and replaced with better fits.

I see them as a couple glue pieces away. it really comes down to trimming some of the fat of the secondary filler type.

One player to get that 3rd line dialed in, and maybe another depth D-man on the cheap.

That 3rd line is the key here, the 3rd two spots and 4th is covered in spades.

 

[Empoleon8771]

LOL...39 year old Caron

Caron lives in Wilkes-Barre, so this isn't all that surprising. He's been their go-to emergency goalie over the last few years, he also signed a PTO back in 2018. He also served as an emergency backup for Binghamton's AHL team last year, which is about an hour and a half drive from Wilkes-Barre. Seems like there's an active market for emergency backup goalies in the AHL and ECHL in northwestern PA/southwestern NY

What's interesting is why are they doing this? They have Larmi and DeSmith already, plus I thought Tokarski was in WBS.

 

[Andy99]

Once again. St Louis moved Shattenkirk and the return was a huge part of their cup win.

Think you’re overrating what we’d get for Schultz as a rental...likely be just a 2nd

 

[Gurglesons]

Think you’re overrating what we’d get for Schultz as a rental...likely be just a 2nd

Never know.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Caron lives in Wilkes-Barre, so this isn't all that surprising. He's been their go-to emergency goalie over the last few years, he also signed a PTO back in 2018. He also served as an emergency backup for Binghamton's AHL team last year, which is about an hour and a half drive from Wilkes-Barre. Seems like there's an active market for emergency backup goalies in the AHL and ECHL in northwestern PA/southwestern NY

What's interesting is why are they doing this? They have Larmi and DeSmith already, plus I thought Tokarski was in WBS.

And D'Orio in Wheeling.

Dunno... maybe someone is about to find a new home? They all have ~4.00 GAA or approaching that dubious distinction.