The Greatest General Managers in Canucks History (#3)

[racerjoe]

If they don’t choke in game 7 vs Minny 2003 Burke’s nostalgia case grows just like Quinn’s.

A finals appearance solidifies him imo.

Agreed. I do think it’s a result oriented business and that’s why I ranked them how I have.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

tbh this is where i have to admit i don't know about anyone pre-quinn to feel confident saying they were better than burke.

 

[I am toxic]

I don’t think some of the young’uns on this board get just how big a rock star in the business world of Vancouver Burkey was. Guy rebuilt the organization into a money making machine. Easily number 3, like Quinn, he was larger than life in Vancouver!
Most of all Burke matched the political ethos in BC at the time. The BC Liberals cut regulation, fired thousands of Care Aids and went to war with teachers. Burke threatened to drive disgruntled workers to the airport. A match too perfect to ignore. People loved him.

He had truculence.

 

[I am toxic]

tbh this is where i have to admit i don't know about anyone pre-quinn to feel confident saying they were better than burke.

None of them were given much to spend, which in a pre-cap world is a massive handicap.

But same, I only followed the team on the ice until the mid-80's where I began to pay attention to roster construction etc.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

To be honest i;d vote for Jimbo at number 3. Burke was sabotaging us openly during the Gillis era.

the first sentence i can't begin to agree with, but the second... i find it hard not to nod along. fff that guy.

Sorry, no way. Jake Milford, harry Neale and Dave Nonis are all well ahead of Jimbo

i'd love to hear more about the pre-quinn guys from someone who was there.

By the late '90s Vancouver was well past its Expo '86/Hong Kong Handover boom and was well established as a major destination with plenty of money. If the Canucks were to leave, easily the best available new NHL market would have been... Vancouver, British Columbia.

i agree with you that burke exaggerated his circumstances, but i do think it was real. not that we wouldn't have gotten another team back in a few years, but i did feel like if the league let it happen mccaw would have had no problem moving the team south.

in addition to the dollar tanking at the exact time as the cost of doing business skyrocketed, i also remember the asia financial crisis really wreaking havoc on our economy into the early years of the 2000s.

If they don’t choke in game 7 vs Minny 2003 Burke’s nostalgia case grows just like Quinn’s.

A finals appearance solidifies him imo.

someone mentioned the '03 team in the last thread, maybe it was you. i just never ever have believed that they would have been anything but destroyed in the third round. even setting cloutier aside, this was a ducks team that in the first two rounds was a rich man's playoff demko against detroit and dallas. they won eight one-goal games against two of the league's three 110 point teams stacked with hall of famers and clutch stanley cup pedigrees and giguere put up a 1.60 GAA and .949 SV%.

playoff bertuzzi and naslund are going to score on that team, with that goalie, whose best skater was keith carney playing out of his mind bertuzzi-kryptonite hockey, and everybody locked in 100 full babcock? i just find that hard to imagine without linden somehow de-aging ten years and the sedins eating a bag of magic creatine and growing their post-lockout butts overnight.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

right?

 

[MS]

tbh this is where i have to admit i don't know about anyone pre-quinn to feel confident saying they were better than burke.

The next two after Burke would have to be Jake Milford and Phil Maloney, you would think. But pretty clearly neither was better.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

#3..Brian Burke..
I thought he was a good GM, Mr C has already listed his accomplishments post #4..The maneuvering to get both Sedins was classic, and he also publicly called Tony Gallagher a 'maggot' which was funny at the time.

I do think that Burke started to lose the plot a bit, later in his GM career..especially with his obsession with size and 'truculence'.

Around 2003-4 my gf at the time was a receptionist at a downtown gym where BB had a personal trainer..My gf told him I was a Canuck fan, so he asked her if we would like to go to the game that night.?...sure....He gave her what looked like a coupon with his signature on it...Got to the arena, and we were escorted to an elevator, to the top of the arena,..to a nondescript suite with buffet in it, then a few steps down to this one row of seats..balcony seats...adjacent to where the healthy scratches, and injured players sit.
Game started,Buffalo Sabres, and right behind me (I couldn't see them) were Burke and Nonis..I could hear every word they said..Fully expecting a blustery Burke, I was very surprised at the tone of his conversation..He sounded more like a doting father ("come on, son",)..Anyway, thats my Canuck 'fly on the wall' story.

1.Pat Quinn
2.Mike Gillis
3.Brian Burke.

 

[Vector]

The next vote is going to be real pathetic when Benning wins over Jake Milford.

Jake Milford's contributions to the Canucks:

1977-78 - 1981-82

1 SCF Appearance
1 Conference title
4 Playoff Appearances

Drafting of Note:
Jere Gillis
Glen Hanlon
Bill Derlago
Curt Fraser
Stan Smyl
Rick Vaive
Rick Lanz
Doug Lidster
Patrik Sundtrom
Garth Butcher
Petri Skriko

Significant Acquisitions:
Traded Rick Vaive & Bill Derlago for Tiger Williams
Traded Don Lever & Brad Smith for Darcy Rota & Ivan Boldirev
Traded Dennis Ververgaert for Kevin McCarthy & Drew Callander
Traded Anders Eldebrink for John Garrett
Traded Curt Fraser for Toni Tanti
Traded future considerations for Richard Brodeur
Traded future considerations for Per-Olov Brasar
Traded 5th rounder for Doug Halward
Traded 2nd rounder for Thomas Gradin
Claimed Ron Delorme off waivers
Brought in successful foreign players Lars Molin, Ivan Hlinka, Jiri Bubla, & Lars Lindgren

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The next vote is going to be real pathetic when Benning wins over Jake Milford.

Jake Milford's contributions to the Canucks:

1977-78 - 1981-82

1 SCF Appearance
1 Conference title
4 Playoff Appearances

Drafting of Note:
Jere Gillis
Glen Hanlon
Bill Derlago
Curt Fraser
Stan Smyl
Rick Vaive
Rick Lanz
Doug Lidster
Patrik Sundtrom
Garth Butcher
Petri Skriko

Significant Acquisitions:
Traded Rick Vaive & Bill Derlago for Tiger Williams
Traded Don Lever & Brad Smith for Darcy Rota & Ivan Boldirev
Traded Dennis Ververgaert for Kevin McCarthy & Drew Callander
Traded Anders Eldebrink for John Garrett
Traded Curt Fraser for Toni Tanti
Traded future considerations for Richard Brodeur
Traded future considerations for Per-Olov Brasar
Traded 5th rounder for Doug Halward
Traded 2nd rounder for Thomas Gradin
Claimed Ron Delorme off waivers
Brought in successful foreign players Lars Molin, Ivan Hlinka, Jiri Bubla, & Lars Lindgren

Vaive and Derlago for Williams..?..Brutal trade imo

 

[Vector]

You've never heard of that trade?

And yes, it was not a good trade. One of those ones that is propped up by 1) the immediate team success and 2) changing the culture of the team.

 

[likash]

#3..Brian Burke..
I thought he was a good GM, Mr C has already listed his accomplishments post #4..The maneuvering to get both Sedins was classic, and he also publicly called Tony Gallagher a 'maggot' which was funny at the time.

Around 2003-4 my gf at the time was a receptionist at a downtown gym where BB had a personal trainer..My gf told him I was a Canuck fan, so he asked her if we would like to go to the game that night.?...sure....He gave her what looked like a coupon with his signature on it...Got to the arena, and was escorted to an elevator, to the top of the arena,..to a nondescript suite with buffet in it, then a few steps down to this one row of seats..balcony seats...adjacent to where the healthy scratches, and injured players sit.
Game started,Buffalo Sabres, and right behind me (I couldn't see them) were Burke and Nonis..I could hear every word they said..Fully expecting a blustery Burke, I was very surprised at the tone of his conversation..He sounded more like a doting father ("come on, son",)..Anyway, thats my Canuck 'fly on the wall' story.

1.Pat Quinn
2.Mike Gillis
3.Brian Burke.

Bro what happened to you? I don't see Jimbo in your top three. I'm not sure if i'm getting blind or you have seen the light.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

Bro what happened to you? I don't see Jimbo in your top three. I'm not sure if i'm getting blind or you have seen the light.

Aren't you putting him in your top 3?

 

[ChilliBilly]

Vaive and Derlago for Williams..?..Brutal trade imo

In the long run. But it also included Jerry Butler, and in the short term Williams was a much needed kick in the ass to some of the lazier Canucks.

I remember one of Tiger's firsts games that I was at. Someone from Philly cheap shotted a Canuck, and was standing over him ready to bash him again. Tiger skated from 20 feet away and cross checked him in the head. Needless to say pandemonium broke out, but he did score something like 38 goals one year.

Sadly, Vaive went on to score 50 for Tor.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

You've never heard of that trade?

And yes, it was not a good trade. One of those ones that is propped up by 1) the immediate team success and 2) changing the culture of the team.

That trade set up a dark era where nobody gave zero f***s about the Canucks...The franchise could have been moved , and nobody would have batted an eyelid.

 

[likash]

Aren't you putting him in your top 3?

I am. Because Burky was doing everything in his power to sabotage us during the Gillis era . At least Jimbo got us Petterson and Hughes. He is incompetent but he is not vengeful like Burke. Plus he seems like decent dude. The bigger problem is the owner who never gave Gillis the chance to rebuild in 2013. I'm 100% convinced we would have been a powerhouse if we started the rebuild in 2013.

 

[Vector]

That trade set up a dark era where nobody gave zero f***s about the Canucks...The franchise could have been moved , and nobody would have batted an eyelid.

Huh? Two years later they made the finals and multiple Canucks are in the Ring of Honour or are remembered years later. Hell, "towel power". It was bad trade but the Canucks qualified for the playoffs for the next several seasons. The issue was the following GMs (Neale and Gordon) couldn't advance the team at all.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Vaive and Derlago for Williams..?..Brutal trade imo

i mentioned this last thread, but what if we viewed vaive and derlago for williams, and fraser for tanti as part of the same trade?

you're giving up some value in the fraser for williams swap, but i think you're giving up less in vaive/derlago for tanti than you'd really think. they're all just garbage team scorers after all.

but then you get this two years and change window where you have both fraser and williams, which i think was crucial for the '82 run.

Traded Don Lever & Brad Smith for Darcy Rota & Ivan Boldirev
Traded Dennis Ververgaert for Kevin McCarthy & Drew Callander
Traded Anders Eldebrink for John Garrett
Traded future considerations for Richard Brodeur
Traded future considerations for Per-Olov Brasar
Traded 5th rounder for Doug Halward
Traded 2nd rounder for Thomas Gradin
Claimed Ron Delorme off waivers
Brought in successful foreign players Lars Molin, Ivan Hlinka, Jiri Bubla, & Lars Lindgren

looking at milford's record, he was kind of quinn-lite in how he got lots of really good assets for almost nothing. he got two scorers for lever, and everything else in that list is basically finding money on the floor. i can see how with that forward infusion of rota, boldirev, and brasar, with fully formed hlinka and molin on the horizon, it's worth it to dump a vaive and a derlago to get a tiger.

 

[MS]

Traded Anders Eldebrink for John Garrett

This was Harry Neale, and it was one of the more low-key terrible trades in Canucks history.

Eldebrink was an outstanding player who was totally mis-handled here and then quit on NA after his terrible treatment. Was later a standout against NHL players in Canada Cups and Swedes consider him their 2nd-best pre-Lidstrom defender after Borje Salming.

 

[Jyrki21]

I am. Because Burky was doing everything in his power to sabotage us during the Gillis era .

I agree that he became a petty jerk toward the team, but I wouldn't take that into consideration in evaluating his time as GM.

 

[Vector]

i mentioned this last thread, but what if we viewed vaive and derlago for williams, and fraser for tanti as part of the same trade?

you're giving up some value in the fraser for williams swap, but i think you're giving up less in vaive/derlago for tanti than you'd really think. they're all just garbage team scorers after all.

but then you get this two years and change window where you have both fraser and williams, which i think was crucial for the '82 run.



looking at milford's record, he was kind of quinn-lite in how he got lots of really good assets for almost nothing. he got two scorers for lever, and everything else in that list is basically finding money on the floor. i can see how with that talent infusion of rota, boldirev, hlinka, and brasar, with fully formed hlinka and molin on the horizon, it's worth it to dump a vaive and a derlago to get a tiger.

Very good drafting too. Being confident that his team can replenish lost young talent in the next draft would have allowed him to make the Williams trade.

It's hard to compare era like this since the late 70s, early 80s, were very different from the late 80s and every 5 years everything would shift again.

 

[Vector]

This was Harry Neale, and it was one of the more low-key terrible trades in Canucks history.

Eldebrink was an outstanding player who was totally mis-handled here and then quit on NA after his terrible treatment. Was later a standout against NHL players in Canada Cups and Swedes consider him their 2nd-best pre-Lidstrom defender after Borje Salming.

Aw crap, you're right. I just included it as the reason we have John Garrett in our lives.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Sorry, no way. Jake Milford, harry Neale and Dave Nonis are all well ahead of Jimbo

I would include Mike Keenan there as well. Granted it was an extremely short tenure as GM he managed to pull off a better rebuild trade than anything Jim Benning has done, and arguably one of the greatest trades in Canucks history when he sent Trevor Linden to the New York Islanders for Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan McCabe, and a 3rd round pick (Jarkko Ruutu). McCabe ended up being traded by Burke as part of a package that landed us the Sedins, and Bertuzzi ended up being part of that exciting WCE team before eventually being traded for Roberto Luongo (who eventually was traded for Jacob Markstrom). The impact of the trade was certainly long-lasting.

I know people will look back at the Messier/Keenan era and have a lot of negative feelings, but let's not let emotion cloud our judgment and let's evaluate the hard evidence. I went with Burke ahead of Keenan here still due to tenure, but I don't want people to overlook the impact Keenan had on this organization.

 

[racerjoe]

This was Harry Neale, and it was one of the more low-key terrible trades in Canucks history.

Eldebrink was an outstanding player who was totally mis-handled here and then quit on NA after his terrible treatment. Was later a standout against NHL players in Canada Cups and Swedes consider him their 2nd-best pre-Lidstrom defender after Borje Salming.

Kind of beaten to it below...

Aw crap, you're right. I just included it as the reason we have John Garrett in our lives.

Who would be the totally non homer doing our colour commentary?!?!?

I would include Mike Keenan there as well. Granted it was an extremely short tenure as GM he managed to pull off a better rebuild trade than anything Jim Benning has done, and arguably one of the greatest trades in Canucks history when he sent Trevor Linden to the New York Islanders for Todd Bertuzzi, Bryan McCabe, and a 3rd round pick (Jarkko Ruutu). McCabe ended up being traded by Burke as part of a package that landed us the Sedins, and Bertuzzi ended up being part of that exciting WCE team before eventually being traded for Roberto Luongo (who eventually was traded for Jacob Markstrom). The impact of the trade was certainly long-lasting.

I know people will look back at the Messier/Keenan era and have a lot of negative feelings, but let's not let emotion cloud our judgment and let's evaluate the hard evidence. I went with Burke ahead of Keenan here still due to tenure, but I don't want people to overlook the impact Keenan had on this organization.

I do think Keenan gets a worse reputation than he deserves, not that I liked him or a lot of what he did, but he did bring us some pretty good pieces. I would put him above Jimbo.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

The next two after Burke would have to be Jake Milford and Phil Maloney, you would think. But pretty clearly neither was better.

Milford is my #4. I need to do a bit more research into Maloney’s tenure, but he’s in the conversation for #5 for me.