The Greatest General Managers in Canucks History (#3)

[Mr. Canucklehead]

The Rankings so far:

#1 - Mike Gillis - 45.5% of Vote
Link to Thread:
The Greatest General Managers in Canucks History (#1)

#2 - Pat Quinn - 73.8% of Vote
Link to Thread:
The Greatest General Managers in Canucks History (#2)

We've had lots of polls with respect to the best players in Canucks' history, so I thought it would be a fun exercise (famous last words) to see who HF Van thinks the best off-ice Canucks' Masterminds in history are - I figure we can run through this with GMs, and then do one for Coaches as well.

The list of Canucks' general managers that we've had is below, clipped from Wikipedia. Like Wikipedia, I'm including Mike Keenan as an option as he was the de facto/acting GM for an extended period of time.

Disagreement and debate are healthy and encouraged. Just keep it clean, civil and respectful.

The List:

1	Bud Poile	February 25, 1970 – April 1973	No playoff appearances	[3][4][5]
2	Hal Laycoe	April 1973 – January 31, 1974		[5][6]
3	Phil Maloney	January 31, 1974 – May 31, 1977	1 division title and 2 playoff appearances	[6][7]
4	Jake Milford	May 31, 1977 – June 1982	1 Stanley Cup Finals appearance (1982) 1 conference title and 4 playoff appearances	[7][8]
5	Harry Neale	June 1982 – May 23, 1985	2 playoff appearances	[8]
6	Jack Gordon	June 4, 1985 – June 1, 1987	1 playoff appearance	[9][10]
7	Pat Quinn	June 1, 1987 – November 4, 1997	1 Stanley Cup Finals appearance (1994) 1 conference title, 2 division titles, and 7 playoff appearances	[10][11]
–	Mike Keenan (acting)	November 14, 1997 – April 19, 1998		[citation needed]
8	Brian Burke	June 22, 1998 – May 3, 2004	1 division title and 4 playoff appearances	[12][13]
9	Dave Nonis	May 6, 2004 – April 14, 2008	1 division title and 1 playoff appearance	[14][15]
10	Mike Gillis	April 23, 2008 – April 8, 2014	1 Stanley Cup Finals appearance (2011) Won Presidents' Trophy 2 times (2010–11, 2011–12) Won General Manager of the Year Award (2010–11) 1 conference title, 5 division titles, and 5 playoff appearances	[16][17]
11	Jim Benning	May 21, 2014 – present	2 playoff appearances	[2]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Click to read more...

 

[PM]

This should be almost unanimous.

 

[Didalee Hed]

This should be almost unanimous.

For jimbo?

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

Brian Burke here for me easily. Hard to overstate how precarious a position the Canucks were in when he was brought onboard. Between the Canadian dollar’s weakness and the team’s dreadful on ice product, relocation seemed like a very real possibility. Add to that Bure wanting out and Mike Keenan scorching the earth of the team and its relationship with the fans, and Burke had his work cut out for him. And on a pretty tight budget from John McCaw, he delivered.

The moves he made to net the Sedin Twins were a masterclass in wheeling and dealing. He also drafted Ryan Kesler and Kevin Bieksa; while both would realize their success after his tenure ended, he was the guy that brought them in. The Bure trade isn’t remembered too fondly, but Ed Jovanovski was a solid acquisition who played really well for us. Ditto for landing Brendan Morrison in the Mogilny deal. Bringing back Trevor Linden was huge for the team, its culture and the fandom. Trading Peter Schaefer for Sami Salo was a terrific deal. And hiring Marc Crawford and playing that balls out, entertaining, fire wagon hockey was just the tonic this marker needed after the gloom of the Keenan days.

While his drafting for the most part was forgettable (Bryan Allen, Nathan Smith) and there were some blown relationships (RJ Umberger), and the Goalie Graveyard - Burke is my easy choice for #3.

 

[xtra]

For jimbo?

in all honesty I’d almost argue Dave bonus is better cause he didn’t bend to Aqua when Aqua was demanding we make the brad Richards trade.

we would have lost Schneider Raymond and edler.

 

[Didalee Hed]

in all honesty I’d almost argue Dave bonus is better cause he didn’t bend to Aqua when Aqua was demanding we make the brad Richards trade.

we would have lost Schneider Raymond and edler.

You don’t need to tell me that story, but I’m glad the more people know it. Dave Nonis isn’t a sellout piece of shit like Benning. He wouldn’t screw over the Canucks to save his own bacon.

 

[xtra]

You don’t need to tell me that story, but I’m glad the more people know it. Dave Nonis isn’t a sellout piece of shit like Benning. He wouldn’t screw over the Canucks to save his own bacon.

I bet we have people coming on here asking for source on that soon lol

 

[PM]

I posted this in the last thread before it got closed but I do not understand the correlation people put between a GM and drafting. Especially past the first round. It’s like the least aspect of team building a GM is involved in. Trades, signings and other off ice improvements are where they should be judged unless it’s explicitly confirmed they overrode their scouts to pick someone else in the first round. I don’t believe for a second any GM is scouting and picking players in rounds 3-7. Maybe the 2nd occasionally. Not to mention that drafting is heavily influenced on the positive side by being a crappy team and getting awarded a higher pick.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

I posted this in the last thread before it got closed but I do not understand the correlation people put between a GM and drafting. Especially past the first round. It’s like the least aspect of team building a GM is involved in. Trades, signings and other off ice improvements are where they should be judged unless it’s explicitly confirmed they overrode their scouts to pick someone else in the first round. I don’t believe for a second any GM is scouting and picking players in rounds 3-7. Maybe the 2nd occasionally. Not to mention that drafting is heavily influenced on the positive side by being a crappy team and getting awarded a higher pick.

The buck stops with the GM. Yes, the scouts do the bulk of the recommending picks and the GMs tend to go with their recommendations. But who assembles the scouts? Who dictates who’s part of that department? The GM does. So if the scouting department is doing well, the GM does deserve credit for that. If the scouting department is sucking, the GM deserves blame for it. Heavy is the crown.

IMO.

 

[likash]

To be honest i;d vote for Jimbo at number 3. Burke was sabotaging us openly during the Gillis era. Always talked smack about Luongo's contract. He is one of the artisans behind the recapture penalty. Also he sabotaged Lungo's trade to the Leafs( i know he was their gm). Mike G. was about to rob them blind.

 

[innitfam]

No way it's not Burke

 

[sting101]

#3 Mike Gillis

Personnel - Did an great job in finding the pieces needed to win prior to 2012 and identifying and empowering what he had.

Contracts Free Agents - Was very good with contracts and cap early on except taking on junk from Florida that ended up handicapping him later. Ballard Booth and the Higgins Hansen legacy deals for 3rd liners and Luongo deals were poor. still miles better than Benning who has been outright careless.

Planning - Very strong here. Was smart, innovative and progressive which helped with the direction for the team. Player usage and weaponizing cap.

Trades - Some good some bad. Samuelsson and Ehrhoff were brilliant. Hurt the team by not being willing to make a fair trade to get what he needed post 2011. Booth Ballard Roy Pahlsson Kassian blah

Messaging Communications Media - Good communicator and did a good job marketing the team. Was not very popular with media other GMs or the Alumni but that's not that big a deal if he was winning and getting the job done but it hung around like a bad smelling pair of socks and probably didn't help when it started to unravel

Drafting Developing - Not a builder, drafting was awful and wasted valuable development time without an AHL team sorted. Was taking steps and had Utica in place. Problem was 5 drafts had passed and he added 1 good player in Tanev (via NCAA) and Hutton and Hodgson/Kassian to the depth and Horvat was still in junior.

Results - Almost won the cup came 2nd closest to Quinn and the 94team and closer than the 82team that got thrashed by the Islander dynasty. Won lots but was handed 5 of his top6 F as well as 3 top4 D and both his world class goalies.
I don't overrate his winning. Peter Chiarelli. Jim Rutherford, Stan Bowman won cups with teams built by other GMs. But i do give him credit for finding some quality pieces and getting the most from his players. The 2011 team was brilliant. Losing Ehrhoff Torrse and the injuries changed things rapidly.

Sustainability - 2 yrs after we almost won the window was slammed shut, AV had been fired, Kesler wanted out and he had to have the owner beg Luongo to stay who also had wanted out after an embarrassing fiasco involving Schneider Luongo and him saying his contract sucks. Tortz i dont fault him for and i kinda liked anyway because he like most of us new it was stale and needed changes. Without any re enforcements and the Sedins 33 almost 34 it wasn't to be. 6 yrs was a good run.

 

[ChilliBilly]

To be honest i;d vote for Jimbo at number 3. Burke was sabotaging us openly during the Gillis era. Always talked smack about Luongo's contract. He is one of the artisans behind the recapture penalty. Also he sabotaged Lungo's trade to the Leafs( i know he was their gm). Mike G. was about to rob them blind.

Sorry, no way. Jake Milford, harry Neale and Dave Nonis are all well ahead of Jimbo

 

[Peter10]

#3 Mike Gillis

Personnel - Did an great job in finding the pieces needed to win prior to 2012 and identifying and empowering what he had.

Contracts Free Agents - Was very good with contracts and cap early on except taking on junk from Florida that ended up handicapping him later. Ballard Booth and the Higgins Hansen legacy deals for 3rd liners and Luongo deals were poor. still miles better than Benning who has been outright careless.

Planning - Very strong here. Was smart, innovative and progressive which helped with the direction for the team. Player usage and weaponizing cap.

Trades - Some good some bad. Samuelsson and Ehrhoff were brilliant. Hurt the team by not being willing to make a fair trade to get what he needed post 2011. Booth Ballard Roy Pahlsson Kassian blah

Messaging Communications Media - Good communicator and did a good job marketing the team. Was not very popular with media other GMs or the Alumni but that's not that big a deal if he was winning and getting the job done but it hung around like a bad smelling pair of socks and probably didn't help when it started to unravel

Drafting Developing - Not a builder, drafting was awful and wasted valuable development time without an AHL team sorted. Was taking steps and had Utica in place. Problem was 5 drafts had passed and he added 1 good player in Tanev (via NCAA) and Hutton and Hodgson/Kassian to the depth and Horvat was still in junior.

Results - Almost won the cup came 2nd closest to Quinn and the 94team and closer than the 82team that got thrashed by the Islander dynasty. Won lots but was handed 5 of his top6 F as well as 3 top4 D and both his world class goalies.
I don't overrate his winning. Peter Chiarelli. Jim Rutherford, Stan Bowman won cups with teams built by other GMs. But i do give him credit for finding some quality pieces and getting the most from his players. The 2011 team was brilliant. Losing Ehrhoff Torrse and the injuries changed things rapidly.

Sustainability - 2 yrs after we almost won the window was slammed shut, AV had been fired, Kesler wanted out and he had to have the owner beg Luongo to stay who also had wanted out after an embarrassing fiasco involving Schneider Luongo and him saying his contract sucks. Tortz i dont fault him for and i kinda liked anyway because he like most of us new it was stale and needed changes. Without any re enforcements and the Sedins 33 almost 34 it wasn't to be. 6 yrs was a good run.

Off topic

 

[Jyrki21]

This is a slam dunk for Burke, but just to address this:

Brian Burke here for me easily. Hard to overstate how precarious a position the Canucks were in when he was brought onboard. Between the Canadian dollar’s weakness and the team’s dreadful on ice product, relocation seemed like a very real possibility.

This was of course conventional wisdom at the time and Burke really played it up (presumably to butter up ownership), but I called BS at the time and I still call it now, two decades later.

The Canadian dollar was certainly weak, but it's pretty weak right now too and pretty much everyone recognizes that the Canadian markets are better hockey markets for revenue generation than most alternatives, because the level of interest is so much higher. In all but Toronto, moreover, the NHL is the only game in town (granted that was less the case in the late '90s, but neither the Grizzlies nor Expos were serious threats to the hockey incumbents).

By the late '90s Vancouver was well past its Expo '86/Hong Kong Handover boom and was well established as a major destination with plenty of money. If the Canucks were to leave, easily the best available new NHL market would have been... Vancouver, British Columbia.

Remember that a lot of the losses the Canucks claimed were paper losses that didn't necessarily represent real lost value (spun the way most sports owners continue to do so today). In my view, the cheezy nature of Brian Burke's threats should tell us all we need to know ("A quarter! That's all it would take, one phone call!" --> why is he calling from a payphone? And long-distance calls cost more than 25￠ anyway!)

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

This is a slam dunk for Burke, but just to address this:



This was of course conventional wisdom at the time and Burke really played it up (presumably to butter up ownership), but I called BS at the time and I still call it now, two decades later.

The Canadian dollar was certainly weak, but it's pretty weak right now too and pretty much everyone recognizes that the Canadian markets are better hockey markets for revenue generation than most alternatives, because the level of interest is so much higher. In all but Toronto, moreover, the NHL is the only game in town (granted that was less the case in the late '90s, but neither the Grizzlies nor Expos were serious threats to the hockey incumbents).

By the late '90s Vancouver was well past its Expo '86/Hong Kong Handover boom and was well established as a major destination with plenty of money. If the Canucks were to leave, easily the best available new NHL market would have been... Vancouver, British Columbia.

Remember that a lot of the losses the Canucks claimed were paper losses that didn't necessarily represent real lost value (spun the way most sports owners continue to do so today). In my view, the cheezy nature of Brian Burke's threats should tell us all we need to know ("A quarter! That's all it would take, one phone call!" --> why is he calling from a payphone? And long-distance calls cost more than 25￠ anyway!)

Maybe some of it was smoke and mirrors - but it sure felt like a worrisome time to be a Canucks’ fan before Burke came on board and righted the ship. We were only a few years past both Winnipeg and Quebec losing their teams, too, which added to that sense of unease.

 

[I am toxic]

The buck stops with the GM. Yes, the scouts do the bulk of the recommending picks and the GMs tend to go with their recommendations. But who assembles the scouts? Who dictates who’s part of that department? The GM does. So if the scouting department is doing well, the GM does deserve credit for that. If the scouting department is sucking, the GM deserves blame for it. Heavy is the crown.

IMO.

That sounds all very well, but ignores the reality that bad GM's are rewarded with high draft picks.

Burke had to work to get the high draft picks to get the Sedins, along with fixing the eff ups Keenan predictably left us with, Burke is the 3rd best GM in Canucks history behind Quinn at #1 and Gillis at #2.

 

[I am toxic]

This is a slam dunk for Burke, but just to address this:



This was of course conventional wisdom at the time and Burke really played it up (presumably to butter up ownership), but I called BS at the time and I still call it now, two decades later.

The Canadian dollar was certainly weak, but it's pretty weak right now too and pretty much everyone recognizes that the Canadian markets are better hockey markets for revenue generation than most alternatives, because the level of interest is so much higher. In all but Toronto, moreover, the NHL is the only game in town (granted that was less the case in the late '90s, but neither the Grizzlies nor Expos were serious threats to the hockey incumbents).

By the late '90s Vancouver was well past its Expo '86/Hong Kong Handover boom and was well established as a major destination with plenty of money. If the Canucks were to leave, easily the best available new NHL market would have been... Vancouver, British Columbia.

Remember that a lot of the losses the Canucks claimed were paper losses that didn't necessarily represent real lost value (spun the way most sports owners continue to do so today). In my view, the cheezy nature of Brian Burke's threats should tell us all we need to know ("A quarter! That's all it would take, one phone call!" --> why is he calling from a payphone? And long-distance calls cost more than 25￠ anyway!)

We still don't have an NBA team.

The province that produced Steve Nash.

 

[racerjoe]

We still don't have an NBA team.

The province that produced Steve Nash.

didnt stern say that was his biggest regret? Taking a team away from Vancouver?

 

[I am toxic]

didnt stern say that was his biggest regret? Taking a team away from Vancouver?

Talk is cheap, but yeah he could have said that.

Remember WPG lost their franchise for what around a decade?

Nordiques never went back.

Jyrke21 makes a good point that Burke oversold it, but I don't think that means the threat wasnt real, the real estate boom was not expected at that time, and Burkecstill deserves credit for turning things around, getting the Sedins, and furthering community involvement.

#3 , behind Quinn at #1, Gillis at #2.

 

[4Twenty]

Maybe some of it was smoke and mirrors - but it sure felt like a worrisome time to be a Canucks’ fan before Burke came on board and righted the ship. We were only a few years past both Winnipeg and Quebec losing their teams, too, which added to that sense of unease.

I wasn’t ever worried they’d leave but it was a mess. They rose like a Phoenix. Competing on a shoe string and entertaining when the likes of Detroit, Colorado, Dallas etc were paying a helluva lot more and I’d argue we were more entertaining.

 

[racerjoe]

Talk is cheap, but yeah he could have said that.

Remember WPG lost their franchise for what around a decade?

Nordiques never went back.

Jyrke21 makes a good point that Burke oversold it, but I don't think that means the threat wasnt real, the real estate boom was not expected at that time, and Burkecstill deserves credit for turning things around, getting the Sedins, and furthering community involvement.

#3 , behind Quinn at #1, Gillis at #2.

Vancouver is a much different market than both Winnipeg and Quebec. I would say incomparable. In size, and in corporate business.

Burke deserves a ton of credit. He turned the team around much like Quinn. People like to remember Quinn better for a few reasons, but both turned the franchise around after huge lows.

Gillis, Quinn, Burke.

 

[Dab]

I don’t think some of the young’uns on this board get just how big a rock star in the business world of Vancouver Burkey was. Guy rebuilt the organization into a money making machine. Easily number 3, like Quinn, he was larger than life in Vancouver!
Most of all Burke matched the political ethos in BC at the time. The BC Liberals cut regulation, fired thousands of Care Aids and went to war with teachers. Burke threatened to drive disgruntled workers to the airport. A match too perfect to ignore. People loved him.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

A reminder to all - please discuss your votes among the remaining candidates available for discussion. There has already been ample talk on both Quinn and Gillis in the previous two threads, and we do not need to re-hash either of them here. Listing your own personal rankings for GMs is one thing; but any detailed discussion/arguing/fighting about either of the above mentioned fellows will be deleted, and warnings may follow.

Thank you.

 

[4Twenty]

Vancouver is a much different market than both Winnipeg and Quebec. I would say incomparable. In size, and in corporate business.

Burke deserves a ton of credit. He turned the team around much like Quinn. People like to remember Quinn better for a few reasons, but both turned the franchise around after huge lows.

Gillis, Quinn, Burke.

If they don’t choke in game 7 vs Minny 2003 Burke’s nostalgia case grows just like Quinn’s.

A finals appearance solidifies him imo.