GBU The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly - Panthers Pounce 3/7/22

[JLewyB]

G: Dahlin whos been consistently awesome for a while now
Asplund and the first line looked ok
Haag and Fitz werent garbage

B: the gifts we gave to the panthers.
its time to send Krebs down for the playoff run. Samuelsson and Fitz shouldnt be to far behind although theyve looked ok.
Cozens had his worst game in a while. Skating into turnovers like hes a bakery

U: only one pity goal in the last 2. Hopefully we shake it off for Thursday.

 

[Sabre the Win]

U: This is so hard not having the Jay's playing to escape to after all star break Sabres hockey.

 

[BFLO]

A few years ago the Panthers were as much of a joke as we were, then they just started doing smart things. I'm just going to copy and paste a post of mine from last year every time we play the Panthers:



I remain hopeful for Adams & Co, but man what a run the Panthers front office has been on.

Panther's are kind of the opposite of us. They kept their drafted stars and got rid of the rest.

Hubs, Barkov, Eklbad (and weegar) are the only drafted veterans on their team, Knight and Lundell are newbies. It would be like if the Sabres had kept Eichel, Reinhart and Dahlin and traded away everything else.

Goes to show there's not only one way to build a contender.

FLA is mostly trades/fa.

TB is mostly drafted players, plugging in some important holes with trade/ufa.

CAR only has Svech/Aho, Pesce/Slavin as drafted players.

Biggest hurdle the Sabres have is that Dahlin looks like the only future star on the team.

 

[Fjordy]

CAR only has Svech/Aho, Pesce/Slavin as drafted players.

Mainly the key players of the team.

Biggest hurdle the Sabres have is that Dahlin looks like the only future star on the team.

I don't think it's a problem, even if only Dahlin is the star, it's likely that the likes of Power, Quinn, Tuch, Thompson, Cozens would be good + current draft and there are other depth players. I think the future in terms of quantity flowing into quality looks good. But Adams needs to solve some issues with the roster right now, we don’t need to add 5-10 new players, but adding 2-4 quality players makes sense, and we don’t need to shake and hold on to each player (Olofsson/Mitts/Jokiharju), if there is a right deal, trade.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[BFLO]

Mainly the key players of the team.


I don't think it's a problem, even if only Dahlin is the star, it's likely that the likes of Power, Quinn, Tuch, Thompson, Cozens would be good + current draft and there are other depth players. I think the future in terms of quantity flowing into quality looks good. But Adams needs to solve some issues with the roster right now, we don’t need to add 5-10 new players, but adding 2-4 quality players makes sense, and we don’t need to shake and hold on to each player (Olofsson/Mitts/Jokiharju), if there is a right deal, trade.

Dahlin is the only key player on the team, and we don't know yet if he's a HOF type player or if he's "just" a John Carlson type.

Everyone else is just a maybe at this point. That's not where you want to be after 10 straight years in the bottom 8.

I think it's realistic for Mitts and Cozens to have Tage like leaps in development. But that only puts them at good status, not stars. 65ish point players in a good year

Quinn could be our Svechnikov or Huberdeau, but that's still a big maybe.

 

[Fjordy]

Dahlin is the only key player on the team, and we don't know yet if he's a HOF type player or if he's "just" a John Carlson type.

Everyone else is just a maybe at this point. That's not where you want to be after 10 straight years in the bottom 8.

I think it's realistic for Mitts and Cozens to have Tage like leaps in development. But that only puts them at good status, not stars. 65ish point players in a good year

Quinn could be our Svechnikov or Huberdeau, but that's still a big maybe.

Well, I'm not arguing they've been terrible all these years, but maybe there is still a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Der Jaeger]

C'mon, stop it. There have been plenty of guys who were scoring and producing in general by the age of 21 in recent years. Lets not move the goalposts here. The average peak for an NHL star is 23-24. So our guys will just be starting to put it together right around then?

No.

Cozens is LIMITED offensively. There's no reason to deny it and say he's a good ol' boy who keeps his stick on the ice.

Krebs I think will be fine but he needs as much ice-time as we can pump him for now because he's already smart enough for the game and has the tools. He just needs to keep getting his feet wet while he can since Vegas slow-played him.

So, you counter my argument with Cozens, and then agree with it with Krebs?

The problems fans have with players is that we compare them to the best, and not to what they should be. Are we comparing Cozens to Leon Draisaitl? Sure, not a good look for Cozens. But what if we were more realistic in the comparison? How does he compare to players similar to him? Look at Brayden Schenn's 21 year old season. Look at Jeff Carter's 21 year old season. Cozens isn't far off from those seasons, if at all.

There's a bit of realism that needs to go into assessments.

My assessment has always been that Cozens is a wing. He's not offensively limited. He's not at his optimal position. Cozens' game is all speed and effort. When you put him at center, he's reading more of the play as an F3 (acknowledging that forwards are interchangeable during the course of game play). When you put Cozens at wing, that allows him to crash the offensive zone, pressure, and play fast. Remember the WJC Cozens we all loved watching? He was at RW.

 

[Lloydchristmas138]

Was at the game so my point of view may not be the same as tv. Flow of the game wise, it felt like a pretty even game. The difference is in the offensive zone Florida goes to the front of the net fearlessly, and has players skilled enough to get to those high danger areas. Thompson, Skinner and Tuch can do it. Cozens has the fearless in him to get there he just needs to figure out the skill part. Everyone else struggled to get away from the perimeter. Also, besides Dahlin the defense is not good yet. We like Samuelsson and Fitzgerald, but they’re rookies. Hagg and Pysyk are replacement level and Bryson is on the top pair. Enough said

 

[OkimLom]

C'mon, stop it. There have been plenty of guys who were scoring and producing in general by the age of 21 in recent years. Lets not move the goalposts here. The average peak for an NHL star is 23-24. So our guys will just be starting to put it together right around then?

No.

Cozens is LIMITED offensively. There's no reason to deny it and say he's a good ol' boy who keeps his stick on the ice.

Krebs I think will be fine but he needs as much ice-time as we can pump him for now because he's already smart enough for the game and has the tools. He just needs to keep getting his feet wet while he can since Vegas slow-played him.

It’s Cozens’ stickhandling that has me slightly concerned- he seems to push the puck more than he actually handles it, and I’m just not sure that’s somethin dudes usually improve. I’d like for him to learn from Tuch and maybe Okposo. Tuch knows how to get by guys and use what he has, Okposo can be shifty enough at a larger size, and Cozens just needs both those things. Currently he just kinda skates it into an area where the D can challenge him and it’s knocked off his stick. He’s gotta find a fix for that.

Krebs looked worse this game, but I think his issues are easier to fix. Eliminate the dangerous passes. Shoot more. That’s it. Get stronger, I guess, but even somethin like that comes with experience. You learn how to take contact and stay on your feet, currently he’s just a bit unused to the talent level of the nhl imo.

Not an awful game, they looked good in the first, 6-1 is what happens when a growing team faces a powerhouse that are finishing their chances.

We've seen the Cozens development show before. It was called the Girgensons show prior, and sadly I'm seeing the same sort of decline from potential two-way center to bottom 6 center. I'm not saying Cozens doesn't have a chance to become something better, but it feels like the same care and priority in improving a guy's individual skills and weaknesses that was put into guys like Risto and Girgensons back then, is being done with Cozens as well at the moment. It's one thing to give a guy the TYPE of ice time that you think he will need to be better, but it's a whole other matter in developing a guy and his skills to be able to overcome said quality of ice time and competition. Right now Buffalo's development seems to come down to what sort of ice time and competition they are facing and that's it. Guys come in with their equipped skills, but they don't seem to improve upon that, with many guys losing said skills on this team.

 

[Der Jaeger]

We've seen the Cozens development show before. It was called the Girgensons show prior, and sadly I'm seeing the same sort of decline from potential two-way center to bottom 6 center. I'm not saying Cozens doesn't have a chance to become something better, but it feels like the same care and priority in improving a guy's individual skills and weaknesses that was put into guys like Risto and Girgensons back then, is being done with Cozens as well at the moment. It's one thing to give a guy the TYPE of ice time that you think he will need to be better, but it's a whole other matter in developing a guy and his skills to be able to overcome said quality of ice time and competition. Right now Buffalo's development seems to come down to what sort of ice time and competition they are facing and that's it. Guys come in with their equipped skills, but they don't seem to improve upon that, with many guys losing said skills on this team.

Philly thought the same thing with Brayden Schenn before they traded him.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Neither of Cozens or Krebs have had a good game in a while -- if you like cometitive games, it's tough to watch a team where 3/4 of the team is still developing. The future looks bright but it's still 3 years away.

 

[Fjordy]

Neither of Cozens or Krebs have had a good game in a while -- if you like cometitive games, it's tough to watch a team where 3/4 of the team is still developing. The future looks bright but it's still 3 years away.

Patience is not enough to wait three years, and not only among the fans.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Patience is not enough to wait three years, and not only among the fans.

What fans? They killed the sport for the area -- the next generation in the WNY area is all-in on basketball and soccer.

Pegulas can do whatever they want with the sabres, and take as long as they want to rebuild, and only 20 of us will care anymore.

 

[Keaganizer]

Neither of Cozens or Krebs have had a good game in a while -- if you like cometitive games, it's tough to watch a team where 3/4 of the team is still developing. The future looks bright but it's still 3 years away.

just a couple games ago cozens looked great and had the beast pass to okposo against toronto

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

just a couple games ago cozens looked great and had the beast pass to okposo against toronto

That was his only good game in a while. And everyone played great that night.

 

[Fjordy]

What fans? They killed the sport for the area -- the next generation in the WNY area is all-in on basketball and soccer.

Pegulas can do whatever they want with the sabres, and take as long as they want to rebuild, and only 20 of us will care anymore.

It is sad

 

[OkimLom]

Philly thought the same thing with Brayden Schenn before they traded him.

And if we had any sort of history of being able get the amount of positive development out of guys that others teams had success on, then I would have more confidence with the whole being patient path and have more confidence that Cozens' development would turn around. Buffalo doesn't have a great track record of getting the most out of their players. Until shown otherwise on a more consistent basis, it's tough for me to look pessimistically.

Right now, their best work, has been Thompson, but one example on top of a pile of poor examples doesn't negate everything else. There's a small chance Cozens turns it around, but it's not too favorable at the moment.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

I didn’t watch the game, so that seems to be the only G I could name.

What this team needs to do is unearth draft picks that turn into NHL guys for the team outside of the 1st round, or players that are in that late 1st-early 2nd range. You need to find guys that develop into NHLers from the late 2nd and on, and outside of McCabe and Olofsson I can’t recall anybody they’ve drafted that’s done that (for the Sabres). I’m ignoring players like Hagel who the team didn’t sign and they became NHLers, and players who get a game here and there (like Jonas Johansson).

 

[Sabre the Win]

People on Cozens when Krebs is out here looking like he doesn't belong almost every night. The only thing consistent with Krebs is throwing terrible passes to the other team.

Tuch is good but the Krebs or bust trade drama earlier in the year looks like egg on the face for many

 

[GOALOFSSON]

Right now Buffalo's development seems to come down to what sort of ice time and competition they are facing and that's it. Guys come in with their equipped skills, but they don't seem to improve upon that, with many guys losing said skills on this team.

"Laughs in Giraffe"

But seriously Girgs/Risto were drafted ~10 years ago. Girgs was also never Cozens, said as one of the bigger Girgensons fans here.

What fans? They killed the sport for the area -- the next generation in the WNY area is all-in on basketball and soccer.

Pegulas can do whatever they want with the sabres, and take as long as they want to rebuild, and only 20 of us will care anymore.

ok

 

[Der Jaeger]

People on Cozens when Krebs is out here looking like he doesn't belong almost every night. The only thing consistent with Krebs is throwing terrible passes to the other team.

Tuch is good but the Krebs or bust trade drama earlier in the year looks like egg on the face for many

37 games into Krebs' NHL career, and here we are.

 

[Der Jaeger]

And if we had any sort of history of being able get the amount of positive development out of guys that others teams had success on, then I would have more confidence with the whole being patient path and have more confidence that Cozens' development would turn around. Buffalo doesn't have a great track record of getting the most out of their players. Until shown otherwise on a more consistent basis, it's tough for me to look pessimistically.

Right now, their best work, has been Thompson, but one example on top of a pile of poor examples doesn't negate everything else. There's a small chance Cozens turns it around, but it's not too favorable at the moment.

96 games into Cozens' career, and we're already talking having more patience? I wonder if Montreal is getting impatient with Caufield?

 

[GrierIsGod123]

So, you counter my argument with Cozens, and then agree with it with Krebs?

The problems fans have with players is that we compare them to the best, and not to what they should be. Are we comparing Cozens to Leon Draisaitl? Sure, not a good look for Cozens. But what if we were more realistic in the comparison? How does he compare to players similar to him? Look at Brayden Schenn's 21 year old season. Look at Jeff Carter's 21 year old season. Cozens isn't far off from those seasons, if at all.

There's a bit of realism that needs to go into assessments.

My assessment has always been that Cozens is a wing. He's not offensively limited. He's not at his optimal position. Cozens' game is all speed and effort. When you put him at center, he's reading more of the play as an F3 (acknowledging that forwards are interchangeable during the course of game play). When you put Cozens at wing, that allows him to crash the offensive zone, pressure, and play fast. Remember the WJC Cozens we all loved watching? He was at RW.

I agree that Cozens seems more like a winger in terms of playstyle. Wing may allow him to handle the puck a little less and use his speed to get to open ice, instead of trying to skate through the other team's d. He's pretty good at transitioning the puck through the neutral zone, and has great skating talent of course. I'm not seeing much else sadly. His skills don't appear to be translating often enough when he tries to make plays, and he gets himself into trouble. He is making it very easy for defenders to shut him down with a quick-stick by not staying strong on pucks. I think someone mentioned it recently that he seems to push the puck ahead instead of controlling it.

Some of his issues will certainly resolve themselves with experience. He has to figure out what type of player he is going to be in the NHL, and may need to adapt some of what he's been doing for years. It won't be the end of the world if he ends up as a really good 3C, as long as he becomes much better defensively. I could also see him being a nice 2nd line winger with the right linemates. He seems to work better with at least one straight line winger (i.e. Okposo or Tuch).

 

[BuffaloGooner]

People on Cozens when Krebs is out here looking like he doesn't belong almost every night. The only thing consistent with Krebs is throwing terrible passes to the other team.

Tuch is good but the Krebs or bust trade drama earlier in the year looks like egg on the face for many

Krebs and I’ve seen other people mention Cozens in here too, they just turned 21 years old. They’ll be fine. For every shitty backhand pass up the middle Krebs makes, he finds someone open who should be putting the puck into the back of the net. Trust those flashes.