Post-Game Talk: The Gimmick Sucks (Your 3 Stars of the Game, though)

[Blackjack]

i agree that it’s not ideal, but it’s certainly not as bad as it’s being characterized. especially when you draft well and have a guy like mercer who can move up as needed.

The Bruins top line is massively underpaid and using them as a benchmark for anything makes no sense. McAvoy goes to $9.5 million next season, so the idea that Bergeron's salary puts any kind of cap other players is clearly not the case. Colorado had no problem paying Rantanen more than MacKinnon.

 

[MartyOwns]

When you draft well you have guys like Mercer who can move up to fill in for the guys that didn't fulfil their draft selections?

This is a twisted way to look at things..."When you draft well"....Your 18th overall becomes better than #1 overall? This is a head scratcher to me.

you've got to stop thinking about this in terms of individual draft positions lol. when reid boucher flamed out in spectacular fashion, we were f***ed because we had nobody in the pipeline. now, when nico is "disappointing" we have other guys we can lean on. that's the whole point. this is not as dire as you're making it out to be.

 

[Blackjack]

When you draft well you have guys like Mercer who can move up to fill in for the guys that didn't fulfil their draft selections?

This is a twisted way to look at things..."When you draft well"....Your 18th overall becomes better than #1 overall? This is a head scratcher to me.

So did Detroit draft poorly when their 6th and 7th round picks Datsyuk and Zetterberg were their best players? Trying to understand the thinking here.

 

[Buck Dancer]

I think the one issue that people are going to have with your argument is that we saw the same thing last year with guys like Jack Hughes, where his underlying numbers were ridiculously good and everyone kept waiting and waiting for the points to supplement those underlying numbers and they just never came. Now, we are seeing the same thing so far this year with Hischier. His underlying numbers are great, but the points aren't coming. They didn't come last year for Hughes, so why would they come this year for Hischier, is I think what a lot of people are getting at. Like you said, in all likelihood, points should come, but we have already experienced players where the points just don't come even with the underlying numbers looking great, so for a lot of people, it's tough to hold confidence in these underlying numbers when more often then not for us, they don't translate to points, for whatever reason that may be even though it shouldn't necessarily be the case.

I would also like to add one thing to this point. Hughes, at least through the eye test, looked fantastic while putting up those crazy underlying numbers. I think we can both agree that Hischier does not look nearly as good as Hughes did last year while putting up these numbers. At least with Hughes, you could see him before your eyes playing great and that great play just not translating. I personally am not getting those same vibes from Hischier. Like Lindy Ruff said earlier in the year, he will always look at the advanced stats in a meaningful way unless your play on the ice isn't backing it up (I believe this was in regards to good advanced stats for Bratt and Sharangovich for a game they both played terribly during). For Hughes, the advanced stats last year backed up what we were all witnessing on the ice. For Hischier, I am just not seeing the same level of play that will be capable of sustaining this high level of offense generation.

I agree with your point that in all likelihood, Nico should start producing more points with the numbers he has and probably should have had more points over the past 7 games given his great numbers. But, through the eye test, it's tough to tell whether he can maintain it, and even if he does maintain it, we have seen players, like Jack Hughes last year, maintain great numbers only to amount to not a whole lot of points.

Dropping the mic with this post.

Great, great post!

 

[JimEIV]

So did Detroit draft poorly when their 6th and 7th round picks Datsyuk and Zetterberg were their best players? Trying to understand the thinking here.

Yes they drafted very poorly..Are you kidding me? This is crap. Scott Gomez was taken two spots after Jiri Fischer.

1998 Entry	25	1	Jiri Fischer	D	Hull Olympiques [QMJHL]	305	11	49	60	295
1998 Entry	55	2	Ryan Barnes	L	Sudbury Wolves [OHL]	2	0	0	0	0
1998 Entry	56	2	Tomek Valtonen	L	Ilves Tampere [SM-liiga]
1998 Entry	84	3	Jake McCracken	G	Soo Greyhounds [OHL]
1998 Entry	111	4	Brent Hobday	L	Moose Jaw Warriors [WHL]
1998 Entry	142	5	Carl Steen	C
1998 Entry	151	6	Adam DeLeeuw	L	Barrie Colts [OHL]
1998 Entry	171	6	Pavel Datsyuk	C	Dynamo-Energiya (Russia)	953	314	604	918	228
1998 Entry	198	7	Jeremy Goetzinger	D	Prince Albert Raiders [WHL]
1998 Entry	226	8	David Petrasek	D	HV71 Jonkoping [SEL]
1998 Entry	256	9	Petja Pietilainen	R	Saskatoon Blades [WHL]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

As opposed to New Jersey who drafted later and significantly better.

1998 Entry	26	1	Mike Van Ryn	D	U. of Michigan [CCHA]	353	30	99	129	260
1998 Entry	27	1	Scott Gomez	C	Tri-City Americans [WHL]	1079	181	575	756	655
1998 Entry	37	2	Christian Berglund	L	Farjestads BK Karlstad [SEL]	86	11	16	27	42
1998 Entry	82	3	Brian Gionta	R	Boston College [H-East]	1026	291	304	595	377
1998 Entry	96	4	Mikko Jokela	D	HIFK Helsinki [SM-liiga]	1	0	0	0	0
1998 Entry	105	4	Pierre Dagenais	L	Rouyn-Noranda Huskies [QMJHL]	142	35	23	58	58
1998 Entry	119	5	Anton But	L	Torpedo-2 Yaroslavl (Russia)
1998 Entry	143	5	Ryan Flinn	L	Laval Titan College Francais [QMJHL]	31	1	0	1	84
1998 Entry	172	6	Jacques Lariviere	L	Moncton Wildcats [QMJHL]
1998 Entry	199	7	Erik Jensen	W	Des Moines Buccaneers [USHL]
1998 Entry	227	8	Marko Ahosilta	F	KalPa Kuopio [SM-liiga]
1998 Entry	257	9	Ryan Held	W	Kitchener Rangers [OHL]

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[TBF1972]

This notion that Pavel Zacha might actually be useful is not settling in for some. The fact that he has been our best forward, taking out Hughes from this equation, is nerve wracking for many who still view him as a potential flop.

The bottom line is that Pavel Zacha has been our best forward for what is now a year and several weeks now and that’s perfect because he’s actually living up to the hype of his draft status whereas some have regressed and admitting that the tables have turned would be declaring defeat.

if he was freed from nico, he would win the rocket, the art ross and the hart. it's a fact.

 

[I Hate Tie DOMI]

This thread title is wrong. The gimmick may suck, but the powerplay is way way worse.

 

[Blackjack]

Yes they drafted very poorly..Are you kidding me? This is crap. Scott Gomez was taken two spots after Jiri Fischer.

I can only hope that we draft poorly enough to win another cup.

 

[My3Sons]

The scenario's you pose seem, to me anyway, trapped between two different worlds....A world were the Team is first and the individual is non-existent. And world were Super Star rule the roost and play 19 to 20 minutes and individuals get all the focus....The Team first/no individuals has been dead in New Jersey for a very long time.


EDIT:

Get this: When Patrik Elias scored 96 points in 2001 he averaged 18:44 of Ice time...When Zach Parise had 94 points in 2009 he averaged 18:45 of ice time.... Nico is averaging 19:56 today and producing at 1/2 point per game.

I may not be clear about my point. I'm not posing some sort of extreme example as proof of reality. It's just a hypothetical. In reality I think that the takeaway is wins and losses. If a player scores well but ultimately the other team scores more against when he plays they are not going to win games. Conversely if a player is on ice for more goals in favor than against -even if both numbers are deflated - the team has better success.

I want Zacha to keep scoring and Nico hopefully has better offensive success. I'd be disappointed if he doesn't, but the team is significantly better than last season and that's a good start. If they can do well against the teams from the middle of the pack and lower and figure out a way to play respectably against the league's better teams even if they will lose most of those it would be tremendous improvement over last season. I'm old enough to think that defense and goaltending matter and if you do well to force the other team to score less goals you can get away with fewer yourself.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

“everyone kept waiting and waiting for the points to supplement those underlying numbers and they just never came” is just so ridiculous. Jack has played 119 career games. He didn’t even have great underlying numbers as a rookie and his scoring did tick up in year 2 along with his underlying numbers.

And Jack’s player profile is totally different than Nico’s. His ridiculous transition ability is pretty easy to project will translate to the scoresheet. The absolute dogshit PP was the main reason for the unimpressive point totals which has nothing to do with what he was able to do at 5 on 5.

 

[JimEIV]

I may not be clear about my point. I'm not posing some sort of extreme example as proof of reality. It's just a hypothetical. In reality I think that the takeaway is wins and losses. If a player scores well but ultimately the other team scores more against when he plays they are not going to win games. Conversely if a player is on ice for more goals in favor than against -even if both numbers are deflated - the team has better success.

I want Zacha to keep scoring and Nico hopefully has better offensive success. I'd be disappointed if he doesn't, but the team is significantly better than last season and that's a good start. If they can do well against the teams from the middle of the pack and lower and figure out a way to play respectably against the league's better teams even if they will lose most of those it would be tremendous improvement over last season. I'm old enough to think that defense and goaltending matter and if you do well to force the other team to score less goals you can get away with fewer yourself.

It still seems two very different topics. "Win/losses" - Yes!

But how are you going to craft a team to get those wins...Before Fitzgerald Defense and Goaltending were very much an afterthought and we put all our eggs in the Superstar Center basket. Those eggs haven't hatched...One egg is 5 years old now the other very early in its 3rd year...We have gotten a lot of nothing for the amount of capital we put in those baskets. Now with all our eggs in a SuperStar Center basket you want to talk about balance and defense? It seems like a misdirection to justify the futility of those two eggs.

 

[JK3]

I see everyone is in fine form today. I guess we're done discussing the actual game, shame because they played very well (other than the PP and a few gaffs by Smith) and our top pair had a monster of a game.