The future of KHL?

[GX]

Before mindlessly cutting Russian teams (I don't want to see Tretiak in tears after all), I think that the successes of foreign clubs should be revisited as well.

The project I doubt has (should have) a future in the KHL is Donbass - who in the world needs it? There are barely any Ukrainians on the team, attendance is terrible (arena is tiny as well), their success is marginal.

I doubt even relocating the team to Kyiv and its 7000-seat Palace of mid-20th Century Sports would be a solution.

 

[malkinfan]

The project I doubt has (should have) a future in the KHL is Donbass - who in the world needs it? There are barely any Ukrainians on the team, attendance is terrible (arena is tiny as well), their success is marginal.

IDK there arena is small yes but it is pretty much close to sell out every game. Also they use the team to naturalize guys for the NT as well as collect Ukrainian players who would otherwise would not play pro hockey in Ukraine. This not only raises interest but will increase the NT performance. Wait 3-4 years, their NT will be improved greatly.

They have a new MHL team, soon at least a few players will be from the hockey school of Donbass. Give it some time, this is one expansion program that will definitely benefit hockey interest and growth for the region.

 

[Jussi]

IDK there arena is small yes but it is pretty much close to sell out every game. Also they use the team to naturalize guys for the NT as well as collect Ukrainian players who would otherwise would not play pro hockey in Ukraine. This not only raises interest but will increase the NT performance. Wait 3-4 years, their NT will be improved greatly.

Now is this really the right way to improve a national team?

I'll bet 500 vcash it won't.

 

[obskyr]

Of all the cities with small crappy arenas, Donetsk is the least concern, since they're building a 16k seater for the 2015 Eurobasket. And given their good marketing it may as well become new Minsk of the KHL.

As for Ukrainians in their roster, it can't be worse than Croatia anyway.

I'm also not really sure why bottom Russian clubs should be removed, as long as nobody is going to replace them. Except for Yugra, which was a ridiculous idea for a KHL club to begin with.

 

[alce*]

Before mindlessly cutting Russian teams (I don't want to see Tretiak in tears after all), I think that the successes of foreign clubs should be revisited as well.

The project I doubt has (should have) a future in the KHL is Donbass - who in the world needs it? There are barely any Ukrainians on the team, attendance is terrible (arena is tiny as well), their success is marginal.

I doubt even relocating the team to Kyiv and its 7000-seat Palace of mid-20th Century Sports would be a solution.

Relocating Donbass to Kiev is like relocating DR to Vilnus. Ridiculous. It isn't Ukrainian team - it's team of Donbass. This "marginal" success team is now battle with DR for 3-rd place in conference, what else could you expect from any team in their second year?

They're also building new arena with 12800 capacity. http://kalmius-arena.com/

 

[vorky]

Before mindlessly cutting Russian teams (I don't want to see Tretiak in tears after all), I think that the successes of foreign clubs should be revisited as well.

The project I doubt has (should have) a future in the KHL is Donbass - who in the world needs it? There are barely any Ukrainians on the team, attendance is terrible (arena is tiny as well), their success is marginal.

I doubt even relocating the team to Kyiv and its 7000-seat Palace of mid-20th Century Sports would be a solution.

Read this + Donbass has been building new arena for 12 000 fans.

IDK there arena is small yes but it is pretty much close to sell out every game. Also they use the team to naturalize guys for the NT as well as collect Ukrainian players who would otherwise would not play pro hockey in Ukraine. This not only raises interest but will increase the NT performance. Wait 3-4 years, their NT will be improved greatly.

They have a new MHL team, soon at least a few players will be from the hockey school of Donbass. Give it some time, this is one expansion program that will definitely benefit hockey interest and growth for the region.

 

[Sokil]

The project I doubt has (should have) a future in the KHL is Donbass - who in the world needs it?

Ukraine? Donetsk? Is this a rhetorical question?

There are barely any Ukrainians on the team

What? There's 8 - that's 1/3 of all Ukrainians in the league. They have 12 if you count the newly nationalized players.

There's also 15 more in the MHL being developed, speaking of which, their farm system and new schools are shaping up to be quite the gem. They're doing all the little things right.

attendance is terrible

It's a new team in a non traditional market. They average 95% capacity. What are you talking about?

arena is tiny as well

And a 12,000 seat arena is currently being built.

their success is marginal.

Do you even look at the standings or do you just pull things out of the air?

I doubt even relocating the team to Kyiv and its 7000-seat Palace of mid-20th Century Sports would be a solution.

What would moving into that dank pit from a newly renovated dig solve? Even teams in Kyiv don't play it in.

 

[Den]

I never thought of Donetsk as a hockey city... I wonder if 12000 will be filled?

 

[Peter25]

I never thought of Donetsk as a hockey city... I wonder if 12000 will be filled?

Piter is not a hockey city either. It is all about marketing and success.

 

[pakovits]

Attendance of Prague teams for year 2013/2014 (ofc without playoffs)
Slavia 4143
Sparta 6500
Lev 5410

Attendance 2012/2013 (with the playoffs)
Slavia 4747
Sparta 6445
Lev 7161
So you can defenitively say it is visited. and the attendance will rise pretty much dramatically in the PO. If you count in the "new and shiny" factor that lasts 1 year usually alot of the spectators stayed. and how succesful the attendance season will be in the end we will see after the playoffs.

SO Atlas even this artificial club, a baby, has better attendance than russian clubs, and not because of small arena size in most cases.

khl will not reach its potential in prague until sparta enters the league.

 

[Sokil]

khl will not reach its potential in prague until sparta enters the league.

Why is this? Does the Spartan brand carry that much cache or is it a matter of the fan base being split too many ways?

Piter is not a hockey city either. It is all about marketing and success.

Pretty much this. The city didn't even have an ice rink until a few years ago when they renovated (Druzhba's cooling unit was broken in the 90s and they shut the arena down for hockey/skating).

 

[pakovits]

Why is this? Does the Spartan brand carry that much cache or is it a matter of the fan base being split too many ways?

i'd say both.

 

[bobbeaver]

Its a 2 mil + city we are talking about, that is plenty for 3 clubs in 2 leagues. Sparta has had constant attendance for last few years so Lev fans are not the same nor are they takeing away fans from Sparta. Onlything they share is the arena. I truley doubt they will combine if Lev disappeared and Sparta went KHL side, which they wount even consider mind you.
I would let the KHL team evolve and get stronger and it will get a strong fan base and attendance.

 

[Jussi]

Its a 2 mil + city we are talking about, that is plenty for 3 clubs in 2 leagues. Sparta has had constant attendance for last few years so Lev fans are not the same nor are they takeing away fans from Sparta. Onlything they share is the arena. I truley doubt they will combine if Lev disappeared and Sparta went KHL side, which they wount even consider mind you.
I would let the KHL team evolve and get stronger and it will get a strong fan base and attendance.

Without success, increased attendance and domestic sponsors, it won't.

 

[bobbeaver]

i must say domestic sponsor situation i have no clue what it is. If its russians or what.
But attendance wise its still good in terms of Czech hockey attendance. In any case tendency of loosing or gaining fans will be seen through a few years. you cant know after 1.5 season what a future of a club is attendance wise. Dropping the project now just shows infantile way of doing business, when the club hasnt matured yet or the fans to get emotively bonded with the club. Even with all that its doing better than alot of russian club. So i dont see Lev getting cut.

 

[Jussi]

i must say domestic sponsor situation i have no clue what it is. If its russians or what.
But attendance wise its still good in terms of Czech hockey attendance. In any case tendency of loosing or gaining fans will be seen through a few years. you cant know after 1.5 season what a future of a club is attendance wise. Dropping the project now just shows infantile way of doing business, when the club hasnt matured yet or the fans to get emotively bonded with the club. Even with all that its doing better than alot of russian club. So i dont see Lev getting cut.

Czech posters confirmed Lev realy heavily on their Russian owners finances. They intend to cut down on putting their own money into the the team and hope they get domestic sponsors to by then or they'll pull the plug. Apparently more fiscally responsible than some Russian owners.

 

[bobbeaver]

by when? do you know the deadline?
I mean to be honest half of czech republic is bought by the russians anyway, Karlovy Vary are so russian they have bilingual signs, so what would be russian money and what would be domestic is a question here aswell. This is just a side note lol

 

[loppa*]

Might as well name it "KHL Expansion Proposal".

Dunno. My issue is that there will always be people with crazy ideas. I am one of those, for example I'd like to see a team in Belgrade one day.

the khl is an international league, this is international forum and i don't really see why russians would have an exclusive right to talk about future of the khl. plus, development of the khl =/= development of russian hockey.

Lol. You're kidding man. It has always been a mainly Russian thing and always will be. The occasional non-Soviet space team only adds some flavor to the mix.


The big question is does a country like Finland say benefit from being a topping on the russian pizza. In general I think yes, because a used topping is better than a rotten topping. I suppose Finnish people might say oh but no, we could use it in another way, but alas the KHL is to some extent a vacuum which will suck out talent. That's how I explain the slovaks and czechs joining at least... too many of their players got sucked up, so may as well join the thing than be killed by it. Yet that's the point, it was a Russian thing and it remains a Russian thing, albeit with some additional appendage or something of that sort ya know.

 

[pakovits]

Its a 2 mil + city we are talking about, that is plenty for 3 clubs in 2 leagues. Sparta has had constant attendance for last few years so Lev fans are not the same nor are they takeing away fans from Sparta. Onlything they share is the arena. I truley doubt they will combine if Lev disappeared and Sparta went KHL side, which they wount even consider mind you.
I would let the KHL team evolve and get stronger and it will get a strong fan base and attendance.

istanbul is a 13 mil city where basketball is popular, yet ulker used to get 4-5 000 people at their games. now that they are fenerbahce, they have 12 000 sell-out crowds regularly, while efes play in front of 4-5 k.

 

[bobbeaver]

I would like to see team in Belgrade.

Lol. You're kidding man. It has always been a mainly Russian thing and always will be. The occasional non-Soviet space team only adds some flavor to the mix.

Yet that's the point, it was a Russian thing and it remains a Russian thing, albeit with some additional appendage or something of that sort ya know.

Well if KHL has an agenda to popularize hockey going into Italy Belgrade, France and Denmark would be a brilliant thing. Look at Medvescak. I am certain it would help their local league and popularity would be huge as the competition would be 10 steps above the rest in the country, and its brand spanking new. (although Belgrade fans hmm might be a bit aggressive though) Those are new virgin markets. Easier to conquer than highly developed markets, but the prestige would be lacking.

MMhh i defenitively wouldnt say a Russian thing and rest were for show. If it was and KHL acted like it than the league would be another Superleague and noone would want to join, simple because the league would treat the foreign clubs like a stepmother (kinda like EBEL ). Not to mention have a nasty image. It is acting the opposite. Especially with the announced end result of haveing 16 foreign and 16 home teams. They are acting as they should, professional and fair. They want all teams to be strong to strengthen the league first and expand their market and revenue, and only second is increase production and retention of russian players. Russian teams are not privileged. Their goal is to rival NHL. they cant do that with haveing some constantly bad teams with low attendance only cause they are Russian. Its business.

 

[bobbeaver]

istanbul is a 13 mil city where basketball is popular, yet ulker used to get 4-5 000 people at their games. now that they are fenerbahce, they have 12 000 sell-out crowds regularly, while efes play in front of 4-5 k.

True but those things in turkey are very much connected with success. in the early 2000's when huge money was pumped into all istanbul clubs (it was 3 than) they were all filled every game. Their league was incredible. Now Fener is the boss and with it comes the crowd.
I mean my point is it is not like there. attendace is always the same for Slavia and Sparta for years pretty much, despite 7.5k attendance last year by Lev or 5.5k of this season. If it was connected than part of those 2k less attendance would have gone to watch Slavio or Sparta and boost their attendance. But nothing of that sort happened.
Ill give you another basketball example look at attendance in Athens : Panathinaikos (12k), Olympiacos (19k) are always filled, and when AEK played in the first league it too was filled (3k). 3 clubs one city.

 

[Jussi]

by when? do you know the deadline?

The story I read in the summer only mentioned "in a few years". Then again, Russian impatience...

Dunno. My issue is that there will always be people with crazy ideas. I am one of those, for example I'd like to see a team in Belgrade one day.

And there's nothing much crazier on this site than a thread at the Transaction board with the words "Trade Proposal".

 

[bobbeaver]

The story I read in the summer only mentioned "in a few years". Then again, Russian impatience...



And there's nothing much crazier on this site than a thread at the Transaction board with the words "Trade Proposal".

lmao. although i must say KHL is patient and keeping to its game and patiently building. they might make some of those impatient investers or owner in check lmao
btw how long is the Lev contract? that might be how long those few years are lmao

 

[Coramoor]

Well if KHL has an agenda to popularize hockey going into Italy Belgrade, France and Denmark would be a brilliant thing. Look at Medvescak. I am certain it would help their local league and popularity would be huge as the competition would be 10 steps above the rest in the country, and its brand spanking new. (although Belgrade fans hmm might be a bit aggressive though) Those are new virgin markets. Easier to conquer than highly developed markets, but the prestige would be lacking.

It would make a lot of Canadian players very happy

 

[Sokil]

Lol. You're kidding man. It has always been a mainly Russian thing and always will be. The occasional non-Soviet space team only adds some flavor to the mix.

Yeah, it was, anyone who remembers the 2009 awards show would know that was the original definition of the league

but "always will be"? That's either short sighted or negligent to what's been happening in the league. They didn't change the alphabet on the jerseys to latin if they wanted to always be a Russocentric league, they want to be a European league and appeal to the broader audience. The KHL has always wanted to be more than the RSL, it wanted to be a pan-euro competitor to the NHL after years of the NHL screwing with European clubs and stealing players. The very purpose of the KHL was to break the dormant European national-leagues system.

If the K adds a team from each nordic country, germany, and more in the west over time (we've already got all of eastern europe covered) will it really be a "mainly Russian thing"?