The Free Agency/Trades Thread (Proposals, Speculation, Rumors) II

[Armourboy]

We aren't winning a cup with Jackman-Bartley as a bottom pair playing 14 mins a night.

that is the other shoe to drop if we traded Jones. Have to replace his 20 mins a night. So we have to trade yet another asset.

If the goal is a cup now, you find out from Carolina what it takes to get Staal. for a half season, he isn't going to cost more than a pick and some b prospects. If they want an A prospect like Fiala, that pic becomes a 2nd or 3rd.

I would kick the tires on Kadri this year too. Beyond those two, I can't see many top 6 centers available.

Now in the offseason, it makes sense to go after whoever we can as a legit #1.

Personally, I would start building my Slovenian fan club and hope Kopitar and LA cant strike a deal and back the dump truck up to him. We can shed salary to pay for it later.

Thats why I said you go get another Dman. The fact is if you are willing to trade Jones to try and make a run at a cup, you don't worry about losing another asset because you are going all in.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Of course we would have to get a D man in return. Is anyone really going to morn the loss of Bourque/Wilson/Jarnkrok/Hodgson etc. if we were able to get a #1 center and a d man?

I'm not convinced a guy like Ardvidsson and Salomaki couldn't step in and play better than any of our third line right now anyways.

 

[BigFatCat999]

Ok Saros and Arvidsson called up

 

[Montross]

Ok Saros and Arvidsson called up

@adsroundtable knows what's up - org isn't letting it out yet. Says it is not a trade.

 

[token grinder]

Oh man. Please don't post that anywhere outside of our boards. You will get absolutely torn apart. RoJo is a legit top 10 center in the world and Jones hasn't even broken out of the third pairing/ power play specialist. RoJo>Jones and it's not even close.

I would give Fiala and Jones for RoJo

False

Bergeron, Crosby, Malkin, Tavares, Getzlaf, Stamkos, Giroux, Seguin, Toews and Pavelski right off the top of my head.

Not to mention Krejci, Plekanec, McKinnon, Sedin, Backstrom, Backes, (Should I continue?)

And the thinking that Jones is a 3rd pair PP specialist is laughable when he logs 2nd pair everything. We are spoiled when it comes to our D men. It is funnt the hockey world all drool over Jones and many think of him as a steaming pile of ****. Reminds me of another young Dman that turned into a franchise dman ($uter) Do we need a center? No one is arguing that. But to devalue him in that manner shows a lack of value.

 

[Viqsi]

False

Bergeron, Crosby, Malkin, Tavares, Getzlaf, Stamkos, Giroux, Seguin, Toews and Pavelski right off the top of my head.

Not to mention Krejci, Plekanec, McKinnon, Sedin, Backstrom, Backes, (Should I continue?)

And the thinking that Jones is a 3rd pair PP specialist is laughable when he logs 2nd pair everything. We are spoiled when it comes to our D men. It is funnt the hockey world all drool over Jones and many think of him as a steaming pile of ****. Reminds me of another young Dman that turned into a franchise dman ($uter) Do we need a center? No one is arguing that. But to devalue him in that manner shows a lack of value.

I've bolded the names that should have left you utterly embarrassed to have even thought of, let alone mention. That's like claiming that guys like Niskanen, Muzzin, EJohnson, JJohnson, and Sekera are all better than Josi.

 

[glenngineer]

I've bolded the names that should have left you utterly embarrassed to have even thought of, let alone mention. That's like claiming that guys like Niskanen, Muzzin, EJohnson, JJohnson, and Sekera are all better than Josi.

Regardless of taking those names off the list he still hits 10. I get a cookie.

 

[Viqsi]

Regardless of taking those names off the list he still hits 10. I get a cookie.

I opted not to bring up the ones that one could have a healthy debate about.

 

[AdmiralsFan24]

I've bolded the names that should have left you utterly embarrassed to have even thought of, let alone mention. That's like claiming that guys like Niskanen, Muzzin, EJohnson, JJohnson, and Sekera are all better than Josi.

I think Bergeron and Pavelski are better than RyJo.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

False

Bergeron, Crosby, Malkin, Tavares, Getzlaf, Stamkos, Giroux, Seguin, Toews and Pavelski right off the top of my head.

Not to mention Krejci, Plekanec, McKinnon, Sedin, Backstrom, Backes, (Should I continue?)

And the thinking that Jones is a 3rd pair PP specialist is laughable when he logs 2nd pair everything. We are spoiled when it comes to our D men. It is funnt the hockey world all drool over Jones and many think of him as a steaming pile of ****. Reminds me of another young Dman that turned into a franchise dman ($uter) Do we need a center? No one is arguing that. But to devalue him in that manner shows a lack of value.

False.

Since his first full season in 2013-2014, Johansen has recorded 151 points, good for 10th among centermen. Additionally, he has been on very average Columbus teams compared to some of his other competition. He is also consistently (until this year) squaring off against some of the best centers in the league, including Giroux, Crosby, Malkin, Tavares in his own division.

The only centers I would take above RoJo are (in no particular order)

Tavares
Crosby
Malkin
Giroux
Backstrom
Stamkos
Toews
Seguin
Maybe Bergeron and Kopitar

Personal preference, but I take him over Getz and Pavelski. I know some will disagree. Remember, RoJo is only 22. In his third full season in the league. Most of the guys we are talking about have been around for a while and are established players. RoJo is part of this conversation and is so young.

Jones is a very, very good d-man, but he hasn't proven that he can be a top pairing d man yet. I understand that on some bad teams, he would be, but not on a true competitor. On our team, he is a third pairing PP specialist at the moment, but I know he is going to be more and under different circumstances, would be more. I just haven't seen enough consistency in his game yet.

Again, Token, there is probably a lot of personal preference and bias in anyone's rankings, but I do think RoJo is in the conversation for a top 10 centermen. Maybe not this year, but I would argue Crosby hasn't even looked like a top 10 centermen this year.

I just don't see how anyone can say Jones = RoJo. Two completely different values in my mind.

 

[token grinder]

I've bolded the names that should have left you utterly embarrassed to have even thought of, let alone mention. That's like claiming that guys like Niskanen, Muzzin, EJohnson, JJohnson, and Sekera are all better than Josi.

If you can make an argument that those guys are better than Josi, I will take the time to make a case that a first grader would understand as to why all those guys are a better hockey players than Ryan Johansen, the franchise center sent home for being fat. Looking at my list I forgot Kopitar, too. Add him to your list of bums as well.

 

[glenngineer]

While we're going here an argument could be made for McDavid and even Eichel if we really wanted to. RoJo is not in the top 10 discussion even if he has top 10 centerman points over the last 2 years or whatever it is. Offense is grand but he is not elite offensively and his defensive game does not make him a great two way player so guys like Bergeron and Krejci are more valuable to an overall game than RoJo's at this point. To me RoJo falls in to the RNH discussion, he is a very good player but not quite there yet. He has potential to be amazing but he's got a ways to go before he bumps down anyone out of the top 10 let alone the top 15 or 20 centers in this league.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

While we're going here an argument could be made for McDavid and even Eichel if we really wanted to. RoJo is not in the top 10 discussion even if he has top 10 centerman points over the last 2 years or whatever it is. Offense is grand but he is not elite offensively and his defensive game does not make him a great two way player so guys like Bergeron and Krejci are more valuable to an overall game than RoJo's at this point. To me RoJo falls in to the RNH discussion, he is a very good player but not quite there yet. He has potential to be amazing but he's got a ways to go before he bumps down anyone out of the top 10 let alone the top 15 or 20 centers in this league.

Fair enough. It's always hard when we compare players because personal bias always plays a big part in it.

Can we at least agree RoJo is more valuable than Jones?

 

[Drake744]

Jones is a very, very good d-man, but he hasn't proven that he can be a top pairing d man yet. I understand that on some bad teams, he would be, but not on a true competitor. On our team, he is a third pairing PP specialist at the moment, but I know he is going to be more and under different circumstances, would be more. I just haven't seen enough consistency in his game yet.

What is he supposed to do to prove he's a top pair defenseman when Weber is the #1 on the team he plays for? When Weber is injured it sure isn't Ellis playing on the top pair in the playoffs....

 

[glenngineer]

Fair enough. It's always hard when we compare players because personal bias always plays a big part in it.

Can we at least agree RoJo is more valuable than Jones?

Today I can say yes but in two years no. Possibly even next year I'd say no.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

What is he supposed to do to prove he's a top pair defenseman when Weber is the #1 on the team he plays for? When Weber is injured it sure isn't Ellis playing on the top pair in the playoffs....

1. Not turn the puck over at the blue line
2. Use his size to knock people of the puck
3. Clear the front of the net
4. Play against the hardest competition and not be scored on

Off the top of my head.

Glenn, good point and there maybe some truth to that. Right now though, Columbus shouldn't (and probably wouldn't) trade RoJo for Jones.

 

[token grinder]

1. Not turn the puck over at the blue line
2. Use his size to knock people of the puck
3. Clear the front of the net
4. Play against the hardest competition and not be scored on

Off the top of my head.

Glenn, good point and there maybe some truth to that. Right now though, Columbus shouldn't (and probably wouldn't) trade RoJo for Jones.

All defenseman do all 4 of those things. He is the current whipping boy so every mistake is magnified.

 

[Soundgarden]

All defenseman do all 4 of those things. He is the current whipping boy so every mistake is magnified.

Looking at your avatar reminds me of a great comparable for Jones; Chris Pronger on the Hartford Whalers. Pronger was a baby-faced 6'5" defenseman who didn't know how to use his size to his advantage and took incredibly stupid penalties, BUT he had great talent which was realized in St. Louis after they traded a 50 goal 100 point Shanahan for him.

Sure he isn't a no.1 defenseman now and he turns over the puck a lot, but he's only 21 and we need to be patient.

 

[Viqsi]

I think Bergeron and Pavelski are better than RyJo.

"I think Vlasic and Suter are better than Josi."

* * *​

If you can make an argument that those guys are better than Josi, I will take the time to make a case that a first grader would understand as to why all those guys are a better hockey players than Ryan Johansen, the franchise center sent home for being fat. Looking at my list I forgot Kopitar, too. Add him to your list of bums as well.

The bolded has not happened, nor has something resembling it happened, nor has any part of that statement ever been true in any way at any time ever in Joey's career. This is akin to me claiming that Josi once put out Poile's other eye because he was feeling jealous of Weber - it's a complete fabrication based on something completely unrelated that was previously falsely attributed to someone else entirely. That you even think this is a horrible condemnation of your ability to stay properly informed.

 

[Mass]

"I think Vlasic and Suter are better than Josi."

* * *​

The bolded has not happened, nor has something resembling it happened, nor has any part of that statement ever been true in any way at any time ever in Joey's career. This is akin to me claiming that Josi once put out Poile's other eye because he was feeling jealous of Weber - it's a complete fabrication based on something completely unrelated that was previously falsely attributed to someone else entirely. That you even think this is a horrible condemnation of your ability to stay properly informed.

Not that great of a comparison there, neither Vlasic nor Suter have matched Josi in offensive ability, while Pavelski has proven to be more of a threat offensively than Johansen. We'll see if Johansen can grow into it.

 

[Enoch]

Viqsi, please explain the current situation RoJo is in. You seem to want to say that he isn't having issues with current coaching staff and nothing is happening, but at the same time, things quite clearly are.

Rumors are that Torts called him out and benched him. This was widely reported and speculated on. From that and the 4th line time, I think you see the current speculation and comments being made.

Granted, I agree, this seems over blown and that the most likely scenario is the CBJ GM is just 'listening' rather than entertaining trade ideas. But. Where there is smoke, there is often a fire. There is a lot of smoke here since the off-season, and it has certainly intensified since Torts became coach (blegh).

I'm sure there are things I am missing here because I am not following this whole saga closely, so please do feel free to enlighten me.

If I am the CBJ GM, RoJo is unmovable.

 

[AintLifeGrand]

Can't help but wonder if we are showcasing Saros for a potential deal??

 

[Scoresberg]

Can't help but wonder if we are showcasing Saros for a potential deal??

If so, it's a bad decision. Kid gonna be something.

 

[Viqsi]

Viqsi, please explain the current situation RoJo is in. You seem to want to say that he isn't having issues with current coaching staff and nothing is happening, but at the same time, things quite clearly are.

Rumors are that Torts called him out and benched him. This was widely reported and speculated on. From that and the 4th line time, I think you see the current speculation and comments being made.

Granted, I agree, this seems over blown and that the most likely scenario is the CBJ GM is just 'listening' rather than entertaining trade ideas. But. Where there is smoke, there is often a fire. There is a lot of smoke here since the off-season, and it has certainly intensified since Torts became coach (blegh).

I'm sure there are things I am missing here because I am not following this whole saga closely, so please do feel free to enlighten me.

If I am the CBJ GM, RoJo is unmovable.

The short version is that there've been positive comments from both Torts and Joey saying that there really aren't any issues. And Joey's play is picking back up - he's quietly retaken the team lead in scoring. It gets overblown, however, because folks predicted it would happen and then there was juuuust enough to feed the confirmation bias beast.

And I've been kind of on a hawk-like watch for heavier issues developing, mostly 'cause I was worried about their appearance and was strongly against hiring Torts as a result. I'm still not ruling out that something may happen in the future... but, at least, it's not happening now.

 

[NSH615]

Can't help but wonder if we are showcasing Saros for a potential deal??

No. Hutton was supposed to start tonight but is injured. Poile said on the radio that yesterday they decided they would call up whichever goalie did not play for the Ads last night.