The Fire Everyone Thread

[rt]

Hello Gents! It occurs to me that I'm back to ruining every thread with this stuff.

But with the news that we can't even keep our 1st with a lottery win, and with the salary cap freeze, I think it's time to start one of these.

Chayka has traded the following picks:
'13: 1st & 2nd
'14: 1st & 2nd
'15: Both 1sts
'17: Both 1sts & both 3rds
'18: 2nd round pick
'20: 1st & 3rd
'21: 2nd or 3rd (conditional)

We haven't made the playoffs once under his watch. I'll add more posts complaining about the coaching staff. I just wanted a thread open so folks had a place to put their complaints and arguments, rather than fouling up the roster thread of the draft thread.

Click to read more...

 

[rt]

Moved this over.

How many former first round picks did he get in return? Chychrun, Schmaltz, Hall, Grabner, Kessel, Crouse? Who else.

I think our roster composition is off but I think our roster is light years ahead of where it was when Chayka started (be thankful we didn’t extend Hanzal and/or Bodker to 5 year extensions). Overall I think Chayka won more trades then he lost with the very notable exception of Domi. I’m okay with Chayka. I do have issues with Tocchet.

Hall is leaving. Grabner is a healthy scratch buyout candidate. Kessel should be a healthy scratch buyout candidate.

I’m terms of his trade balance sheet being in the black vs in the red? I’d say it’s a net negative BEFORE you realize we have zero cap space and no draft picks to speak of. I think that puts him FIRMLY into the net negative. I think he’s been an absolute disaster.

 

[Jamieh]

Not gonna lie rt, I am looking forward to some classic rants in this thread!!!!

 

[rt]

Chayka’s big moves:

I also had really high hopes for Hinostroza and Oesterle and both are worthless now. Only worthy of being among the worst players on a team among the league’s worst teams. Neither would have any role to speak of on a playoff team. We got zero, zilch, nada out of eating Hossa’s deal.

I was really happy Chayka fired Tippett. And keeping him would have been a mistake. He got stale and it was absolutely time to part ways. But then all we got out of it was Tocchet. Who has been an absolute abomination of a head coach. Completely inept. Obviously not HC material. This will be the last time he ever gets the chance. He’s done nothing but fail in the role his entire career. We got nothing out of the Tippett for Tocchet trade.

Still feels nice to have kicked Smith in the ass on his way out. Happy with that.

Hjalmarsson is still better than Murphy. So that trade is fine. It hasn’t mattered at all. But still a good trade.

I like Lawson Crouse better than Serron Noel, so that’s a good trade. Happy with that one.

Domi is still one of my favorite Coyotes of all-time. Kessel is a compliance buyout candidate. Terrible trade sequence.

Duclair for Panik? Who cares. Nothing-nothing.

I’m fine with the Hall trade. But when he walks, you can’t give Chayka any positive credit for it. It was a failure to act on the coaching front to save the season and the trade. But the price paid was fine and the asset returned was fine.

Neither Strome nor Schmaltz are impressive to me. Both are inconsistent, one-dimensional, soft as butter, sometimes productive wingers. Not solid enough for the bottom six. Not good enough for the top six on a decent team. They’re trash team all-stars. Secondary offense for crappy teams.

Soderberg for a 3rd was fine. Net zero.

Goligoski and Grabner signings were net zeroes.

Kuemper and Chychrun trades were absolute homeruns. Chayka crushed those.

Demers trade was really good. But meaningless. Martinook trade was really bad but meaningless.

^ I think Chayka’s entire chronology is shockingly close to a net zero. Just pure stagnation. Nothing gained, nothing lost. Took over a bad team, completely remade it from top to bottom into a bad team. Our total hockey asset value is roughly the same. Except we don’t have any draft picks now. Damn. That’s depressing. All for nothing.

And no cap space.

One incredibly expensive mouse fart. That’s Chayka. And it’s a windy day, too.

 

[hbk]

Moved this over.


Hall is leaving. Grabner is a healthy scratch buyout candidate. Kessel should be a healthy scratch buyout candidate.

I’m terms of his trade balance sheet being in the black vs in the red? I’d say it’s a net negative BEFORE you realize we have zero cap space and no draft picks to speak of. I think that puts him FIRMLY into the net negative. I think he’s been an absolute disaster.

Defense goaltending and forward are all better today than when Chayka started. Chychrun is our top D man. Acquired by trade. Keumper is an all star netminder. Acquired by trade. Crouse has developed into a breakout power forward. Acquired by trade. top to bottom our roster is better and deeper.

We have cap space issues for a single year. One. And it’s a black swan event at that. After that we may be the best situated club in the nhl. Any notable free agents in a year?

We have talent, depth, and a promising prospect Corp.

Yes we lost the Domi trade. What other trades are glaring losses? Bandaid top 2/3 ever situation C Stepan and all star Raanta (who I dislike but can’t argue he’s a top 5 backup at the very least when healthy) for DeAngelo (who has some red flags on character that are the reason he was moved from both AZ and the Lightning) and a 1st round pick from the most mediocre draft in the last decade? Anyone crying over the Strome deal today? I’m not. Schmaltz has been very good and would be even better if for some reason Tocchet would take Kessel off the PP.


We clearly won the Hinostroza deal. We clearly won the Hjarlmarsson deal (top pairing D are easy to acquire). We clearly won the Crouse deal. We clearly won the Keumper deal. we clearly won the Demers deal. We clearly won the Goligoski deal. Chayka also was able to convince OEL to re-sign in AZ.

I think we need tweaks not overhauls; although I’m in favour of overhauling the coaching staff.

Chayka isn’t the issue IMO.

 

[Jamieh]

HBK after that one year of bad Cap we end up with space because we lose most of our D, no idea how the backend will look in 2 seasons?? And we don't exactly have a pipeline of any position waiting in the wings??

 

[rt]

Defense goaltending and forward are all better today than when Chayka started. Chychrun is our top D man. Acquired by trade. Keumper is an all star netminder. Acquired by trade. Crouse has developed into a breakout power forward. Acquired by trade. top to bottom our roster is better and deeper.

We have cap space issues for a single year. One. And it’s a black swan event at that. After that we may be the best situated club in the nhl. Any notable free agents in a year?

We have talent, depth, and a promising prospect Corp.

Yes we lost the Domi trade. What other trades are glaring losses? Bandaid top 2/3 ever situation C Stepan and all star Raanta (who I dislike but can’t argue he’s a top 5 backup at the very least when healthy) for DeAngelo (who has some red flags on character that are the reason he was moved from both AZ and the Lightning) and a 1st round pick from the most mediocre draft in the last decade? Anyone crying over the Strome deal today? I’m not. Schmaltz has been very good and would be even better if for some reason Tocchet would take Kessel off the PP.


We clearly won the Hinostroza deal. We clearly won the Hjarlmarsson deal (top pairing D are easy to acquire). We clearly won the Crouse deal. We clearly won the Keumper deal. we clearly won the Demers deal. We clearly won the Goligoski deal. Chayka also was able to convince OEL to re-sign in AZ.

I think we need tweaks not overhauls; although I’m in favour of overhauling the coaching staff.

Chayka isn’t the issue IMO.

I see it differently. I see Keller, Schmaltz, Stepan, Kessel, and Goligoski as the leadership group/core that are all extremely passive, and soft. They play indirect, perimeter, disengaged hockey. I truly dislike how a huge part of our core has been assembled. I think the Coyotes are the softest team in the NHL and way too easy to beat most nights. I would swap our entire roster and entire pipeline (given traded picks) with most teams in the NHL outside of California.

 

[rt]

It was always gone. We only got it back if we won a lottery. I’ll be pissed off if we win the lottery but until then I’m not going to sweat it. It’s the 10th pick and I have 6-7 names on my draft list that I’ll be frustrated we don’t get to draft. I don’t believe any of the C’s on that list will be there at 10.

I'm fine with the Hall trade. I love Hall. The problem was not firing Tocchet in January, hiring Laviolette or Gallant, and saving the season. Chayka deserves a pat on the back for the Hall trade. It was a good one. Chayka deserves to be fired for refusing to replace Tocchet. It wasn't trading for Hall that gave a top 10 pick to New Jersey, it was retaining Tocchet that gave a top 10 pick to New Jersey.

Either way, Chayka threw a top ten pick in the garbage can, lit it on fire, and pissed on its ashes. And it was because he was either too scared or too proud to do what clearly needed doing on the coaching front. I want Chayka replaced immediately with a GM who has the balls to replace Tocchet immediately.

I'm not even mad at Tocceht. It's just clear he isn't cut out to be an NHL head coach and he never will be. It's not his fault. He's probably an excellent assistant, and I hope he has a long and successful career in that role, for some other organization. I hope he's the next Rick Bowness.

Chayka, though. Well, he knows better. He's the one I'm pissed at. He could have saved our season and he didn't. He's the one I blame for this.

 

[hbk]

I see it differently. I see Keller, Schmaltz, Stepan, Kessel, and Goligoski as the leadership group/core that are all extremely passive, and soft. They play indirect, perimeter, disengaged hockey. I truly dislike how a huge part of our core has been assembled. I think the Coyotes are the softest team in the NHL and way too easy to beat most nights. I would swap our entire roster and entire pipeline (given traded picks) with most teams in the NHL outside of California.

I agree we need to move 1-2 of our smallish players. Hinostroza being the most likely. We could also just deal his rights this off season as a way to partially alleviate our cap issues (which are fairly manageable even without a trade once Hossa’s deal is out on LTIR).


Kessel needs to go as well. Unless he finds a work ethic and a cardio machine this off season he needs to be moved. Even then I’m not sure this organization can take more of the double standard for Kessel and his playing time from Tocchet.

We do need more size. Jenik will be here sooner than later and he is going to need someone to back him up (teams will be lining up to kill him).

I do think Chayka is going to make more changes this off season. I would not be shocked if we deal at least one of Demers, Goligoski, Oesterle as well as we make room for Soderstrom (another small player). I’d like to see a Hjarlmarsson extension soon as well. Is he a candidate to be moved depending on the return?

 

[hbk]

I'm fine with the Hall trade. I love Hall. The problem was not firing Tocchet in January, hiring Laviolette or Gallant, and saving the season. Chayka deserves a pat on the back for the Hall trade. It was a good one. Chayka deserves to be fired for refusing to replace Tocchet. It wasn't trading for Hall that gave a top 10 pick to New Jersey, it was retaining Tocchet that gave a top 10 pick to New Jersey.

Either way, Chayka threw a top ten pick in the garbage can, lit it on fire, and pissed on its ashes. And it was because he was either too scared or too proud to do what clearly needed doing on the coaching front. I want Chayka replaced immediately with a GM who has the balls to replace Tocchet immediately.

I'm not even mad at Tocceht. It's just clear he isn't cut out to be an NHL head coach and he never will be. It's not his fault. He's probably an excellent assistant, and I hope he has a long and successful career in that role, for some other organization. I hope he's the next Rick Bowness.

Chayka, though. Well, he knows better. He's the one I'm pissed at. He could have saved our season and he didn't. He's the one I blame for this.

I’m a lot less pissed about the Hall deal at the 10th pick then I would be if it was 6th. It all depends for me on what names are still on the board at 10 that year.

that’s also how I viewed the Stepan/Raanta deal. The 3rd guy on my list was still on the board but he’s a back issue prospect that I fear will never be what I thought he would be when I made that list. After that I look at my list and I wasn’t super enamoured with many of the other names as being top line or even second line talent. Now I like this draft a heck of a lot more but I’ve listed the guys I’m enamoured with and I guess I’m now forced to wait to see if any of those names are on the board come the 10th pick on draft day.

 

[rt]

Even if Chayka fired Tocchet tomorrow it was inexcusable to throw the season away by not firing him in late January. It cost us the playoffs AND a top 10 pick. That’s too much to come back from. I want Chayka gone.

 

[hbk]

Even if Chayka fired Tocchet tomorrow it was inexcusable to throw the season away by not firing him in late January. It cost us the playoffs AND a top 10 pick. That’s too much to come back from. I want Chayka gone.

I’m inclined to agree we need a change now (I just recently reluctantly came to this conclusion) but I understand why he decided to give him a shot to right the ship. If Raanta has been able to stay healthy in January and played to his average level we are likely talking 2-3 more wins and a playoff position. Let’s not act like we weren’t in first place in the Pacific in January before our goalies started giving up a softie a game.[/QUOTE]

 

[rt]

Let’s not act like we weren’t in first place in the Pacific in January before our goalies started giving up a softie a game.

I think this is revisionist. Raanta was hurt for 5 games in January.

He couldn't play on the 7th against Florida, the 9th against Tampa, the 12th against Pittsburgh, the 14th against San Jose, the 16th against Vancouver. The Coyotes played six games in that span.

They ranked 16th in the NHL in that span in GAA with a 3.00 GAA.

Adin Hill's SV% in those games:

1/07 - .944
1/09 - .924
1/10 - .927
1/12 - .921
1/14 - .917
1/16 - .917
1/18 - .920

Chayka tried to blame the concurrant goalie injuries for the catastrophic collapse of the season. But the narrative doesn't match the fact.

In their last 35gp their P% (pts/GP) was ranked 27th. Last 25gp ranked 30th. Last 15gp ranked 24th. Last 5gp ranked 24th. None of this is a playoff pace. It’s all among the league worst.

 

[hbk]

I think this is revisionist. Raanta was hurt for 5 games in January.

He couldn't play on the 7th against Florida, the 9th against Tampa, the 12th against Pittsburgh, the 14th against San Jose, the 16th against Vancouver. The Coyotes played six games in that span.

They ranked 16th in the NHL in that span in GAA with a 3.00 GAA.

Adin Hill's SV% in those games:

1/07 - .944
1/09 - .924
1/10 - .927
1/12 - .921
1/14 - .917
1/16 - .917
1/18 - .920

Chayka tried to blame the concurrant goalie injuries for the catastrophic collapse of the season. But the narrative doesn't match the fact.

In their last 35gp their P% (pts/GP) was ranked 27th. Last 25gp ranked 30th. Last 15gp ranked 24th. Last 5gp ranked 24th. None of this is a playoff pace. It’s all among the league worst.

I watched the games in January. We let in a soft goal a game. Sometimes 2. In a 3-2 league that was the difference between getting a point or no points.

 

[rt]

In the 15 games between January 9th and February 13th the Coyotes won 3 of them. That's three wins in fifteen games.

The Coyotes had the 10th worst shot differential in the league during that time. They had a .914 5v5 sv% during that time.

That's not on the goaltenders. I don't see that horrific crash as having to do with goaltending issues or injuries of any kind.

The team didn't get enough shots for, or goals for. The team let up too many shots against, and too many goals against.

 

[hbk]

In the 15 games between January 9th and February 13th the Coyotes won 3 of them. That's three wins in fifteen games.

The Coyotes had the 10th worst shot differential in the league during that time. They had a .914 5v5 sv% during that time.

That's not on the goaltenders. I don't see that horrific crash as having to do with goaltending issues or injuries of any kind.

The team didn't get enough shots for, or goals for. The team let up too many shots against, and too many goals against.

I watched the games rt. They let in a soft goal each game. Argue save percentage all you want. But there’s soft goals if you go back and watch them. No we didn’t score enough. Different issue. In a 3-2 league you can’t afford to spot 1-2 cheapies a night. You just can’t. Our record reflected that more than anything. It’s not revisionist history. It’s a fact. Go back and watch the goals.

 

[rt]

I watched the games rt. They let in a soft goal each game. Argue save percentage all you want. But there’s soft goals if you go back and watch them. No we didn’t score enough. Different issue. In a 3-2 league you can’t afford to spot 1-2 cheapies a night. You just can’t. Our record reflected that more than anything. It’s not revisionist history. It’s a fact. Go back and watch the goals.

Sure. But they had a 2.11 GF/GP. That's not going to get you wins. This team can't score goals. They can't score goals because they are soft, perimeter team, that rushes plays, and handles the puck like a live hand grenade. It's what Tocchet calls "playing fast". Which so far as I can tell is the same as "playing panicked".

Goaltending did NOT destroy out season. Coaching did.

 

[Mosby]

Not sure it's fair to say we are 0 for 4 for playoffs under Chayka when really only this season was when playoffs were expected. And although unlikely at the time of the pause, not impossible.

Also, some of those picks look a lot more valuable than what they turned into (Perlini, for example).

I'd like to see Boudreau replace Tocchet.

 

[rt]

And although unlikely at the time of the pause, not impossible.

They were losing all of their important games. I know it wasn't technically impossible, but they looked horrendous.

 

[hbk]

They were losing all of their important games. I know it wasn't technically impossible, but they looked horrendous.

Hmmm. Morgan is quoting stats that show AZ was leading the league in chances generated. Now we didn’t convert but that bodes well for the future if true. Eventually the percentages even out.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Someone want to catch me up on why if we win the lottery we don't win the lottery?

 

[hbk]

Sure. But they had a 2.11 GF/GP. That's not going to get you wins. This team can't score goals. They can't score goals because they are soft, perimeter team, that rushes plays, and handles the puck like a live hand grenade. It's what Tocchet calls "playing fast". Which so far as I can tell is the same as "playing panicked".

Goaltending did NOT destroy out season. Coaching did.

I have moved into the fire Tocchet group. His inability to adapt his system to his roster and his double standard with Kessel are my reasons. I am curious on how Hall would react to a change or if he would prefer to play next season for Tocchet but I’d be prepared to respond to that accordingly.

I have not given up on Chayka as GM.

 

[hbk]

Someone want to catch me up on why if we win the lottery we don't win the lottery?

They are apparently moving to the previous draft rules where u can only love up 4 slots if u win. This means we can only go from 10 to 6. Because we only worded the trade as top 3 protected (because those were the 3 lottery picks at the time) we could in theory have to give up this pick even if we win the lottery. We could argue this. I certainly think we would dispute it. If we win. That’s a big If. Although we do have Taylor Hall so never say never.

 

[Vinny Boombatz]

Oh...and yes Fire Chayka and Fire Tocchet.

If you say, hey we can get Taylor Hall and make a run in the playoffs and then the team lays an egg and we don't make the playoffs and we gave up what we gave up, yes, Chayka should be fired because the new GM would take all about 2 seconds after signing to Fire Tocchet.

Keep the scouts who've picked the last 2 drafts, but everyone else can have a coke & a smile.

 

[rt]

I have moved into the fire Tocchet group. His inability to adapt his system to his roster and his double standard with Kessel are my reasons. I am curious on how Hall would react to a change or if he would prefer to play next season for Tocchet but I’d be prepared to respond to that accordingly.

I have not given up on Chayka as GM.

I think Hall likes Tocchet. If I think I can re-sign Hall to a big long extension, I might wait until the trade is official before I fire Tocchet. It doesn't change the fact that Chayka made a mistake by not firing him in January. I don't think Hall would have liked Laviolette or Gallant less. Certainly not if the team started winning and made the playoffs. Then he'd like them a whole lot more, I'd wager.

I can't excuse Chayka for throwing away the season, and costing us a top 10 pick as a result. I won't. He deserves to be fired for that.