The failed expansion/relocation bid of the Hampton Roads Rhinos

HisIceness

This is Hurricanes Hockey
Sep 16, 2010
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Charlotte




Does anyone else remember this? I've seen it mentioned on this site before but it's been a while and the two videos above give a pretty good in-depth look at the concept. I'm from Charlotte and grew up going to Hornets games and this is interesting to me considering Shinn was the original owner of the Hornets. And as a Hurricanes fan I assume this shuts the door for a Raleigh-based team had it been approved.

I guess the questions I have regarding this are.

1. The un-named owner Shinn mentions is Karmanos yes? Has to be right?

2. Would the arena project even have gotten done? The region has a infamous history of not being able to build and successfully finance an arena. VA Beach recently nixed proposals for a 18k seat arena.

3. Would this have been successful long-term? I've been to Norfolk, VA Beach, and Newport News before. The population is there, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of money (corporate support) and the infastructure is a mess. Seems to me as well that those who are long-time residents are content with supporting the DC teams.
 

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
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I lived through this at middle-distance, as a local fan of the Charlotte Checkers during the time when the old ECHL East Division was being raided by the NHL and AHL.

It was a weird time to be a hockey fan in Virginia/Carolinas. The ECHL was of course a wild league and was thriving in the region. Hampton Roads (coached by John Brophy btw) was in the middle of a cluster of explosive rivalries, primarily with Greensboro and Richmond. The fanbases weren’t overwhelmingly huge but they were respectable for low-minors hockey. For all we knew back then, these teams were laying down roots for years to come.

Part of the dynamic was that the AHL and IHL were in an arms race. The AHL had the valuable affiliations, but it was a condensed northeastern league with limited reach. IHL saw an opportunity to jump into major-league markets and form a coast-to-coast AAA+ league based around Chicago, SF, Denver, Orlando, etc. Eventually they got the big idea to compete with the NHL, but that’s another story. The important thing here is that the AHL suddenly realized they needed to expand or die.

First shoe dropped in 1996, when the AHL decided to capture the mid-Atlantic region by ransacking the ECHL’s East Division. Their plan was to take over Charlotte, Greensboro, and Hampton Roads. That plan was met with a lot of pushback, primarily because it would have meant a significant increase in ticket prices while changing out several old rivals for distant, irrelevant opponents. Charlotte backed out due to arena issues (moving to the larger Coliseum meant installing an expensive ice plant). Greensboro moved forward over the objections of some fans. At the same time, reading the writing on the wall and seeing its NHL potential, Raleigh started preparing a bid for an expansion team.

Now, I may be remembering this wrong, but IIRC this was when George Shinn decided to try and scoop the whole situation in HR by launching an expansion bid there. This was of course a hostile bid to both the ECHL and AHL teams. Shinn was not a local to the town; he was entirely trying to parlay his Hornets success into being a multi-league owner. The videos do a good job explaining how it played out, with neither the STH base nor public funding materializing to justify the bid.

I feel certain that the mystery owner was Karmanos.

The epilogue to all of this:
- Hampton Roads, having experienced a dizzying drama, remained a status-quo core ECHL market for another decade until they finally graduated to the AHL under more strategic circumstances.
- Within a few months of the formal bid, Karmanos settled on Raleigh.
- Because Karmanos needed a landing pad for the Hurricanes while the arena was built, he was able to vacate the now-AHL Greensboro team from their building. The fanbase there, which had endured losing their beloved ECHL team, now lost their AHL team and suffered 2 humiliating years of national mockery at NHL prices. This was effectively the end of Greensboro as a hockey market, future efforts at ECHL resuscitation drawing little interest.
- Charlotte remained a core ECHL market until graduating to the AHL, where they just won their first championship.
- Having lost their natural established rivals, most of the rest of the ECHL East collapsed. Richmond, Roanoke, Knoxville, and a series of smaller towns are still without pro hockey. Charleston has remained a long term ECHL cornerstone.
- Shinn transitioned from trying to bilk money from Hampton Roads to trying to bilk money from Charlotte. Within half a decade he was enmeshed in a sex scandal and the city had rejected the Hornets by referendum. He took that team to New Orleans and was not missed when he finally cashed out.
- The IHL died on the hill of trying to compete in big-time markets as a national league. The AHL consolidated the leftovers to become the sole AAA league with clear strategic NHL affiliation. The ECHL entered the small-market vacuums and swallowed the other AA leagues. The NHL expanded and chose Atlanta as its southeastern hub, with Karmanos adding a bridge team in Raleigh as the core of a future southeastern division.
 
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tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
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Here's some more info on the Rhinos.


AT ISSUE: THE HAMPTON ROADS RHINOS

An archived Q&A with some local citizens, which includes this critical piece:

In a prior response we pointed out the fact that the Rhinos will only be tenants to the region's arena.

At the time that would have still been a typical arrangement, but as we get farther into the 21st century it's getting harder for teams to exist without at least partial ownership/operating rights to their arena. It's not difficult to imagine a timeline in which the Rhinos franchise, operating without access to most arena revenues, takes heavy losses forcing Shinn to renegotiate or sell. And if that happens at the same time a place like Quebec City is building a new arena... particularly involving an owner who actually did relocate an NBA franchise after a failed arena renegotiation... well, connect the dots.

A 2017 article comparing more a more recent failure-to-cooperate scenario to that of the Rhinos:

Hampton Roads hasn’t often gotten along. Remember the Rhinos?

Del. Chris Jones of Suffolk didn't need to be reminded about the region's difficulty to hold hands in the past when it came to economic development: On display in his office is a 20-year-old Pepsi can with a label advertising the Hampton Roads Rhinos, the NHL team that never was. He remembered that, while he was still mayor of Suffolk, the city of Norfolk attempted to get the rest of the region's cities on board to help fund a $143 million arena downtown that would attract an NHL franchise, but Norfolk couldn't garner the support.


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A "Rhinos 101" document by the local paper, with extensive detail about the arena deal and the strength of the bid.

http://programmanagers.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/2410796.pdf

(Season ticket) Sales so far: Rhinos officials said Friday they had deposits for 5,160 season tickets, and that another 500 season tickets accompany the 25 luxury suites that have been sold. The Rhinos had a goal of 10,000 season tickets by Friday, when sales were cut off so numbers could be included in Tuesday's New York presentation.

(Luxury suites) Sale so far: Rhinos officials said Friday they have deposits for 25 suites. The Rhinos had a goal of 40 suite commitments before their Tuesday presentation in New York. The concern: It's questionable that there is enough corporate depth in Hampton Roads to support the suites. Chris Dunlavey of Brailsford and Dunlavey, who helped draft a 1995 arena feasibility study for the Sports Authority of Hampton Roads, said suite support ''was the one area of possible weakness we found in the Hampton Roads market compared to other markets.''

Market size: At 1.6 million people, Hampton Roads' greater metropolitan area ranks fourth among the expansion applicants.
TV market: Ranked 38th in the country, Hampton Roads is seventh among the applicants.
Ownership group: A strength for Hampton Roads, whose bid is backed by Charlotte Hornets owner George Shinn.
Sports competition: Hampton Roads, the nation's largest metropolitan area without a major-league sports franchise, has no serious competition for the sports dollar. The closest major league teams are 190 miles away in Washington.
Demographics: A negative for Hampton Roads, which has a per-capita income of $ 19,007, 193rd in the country and eighth among applicants.
Corporate support: Potentially a negative. Hampton Roads has just one Fortune 500 company, and there is concern that the business community isn't large enough to support the luxury suites necessary for an arena to succeed.
Arena: Not a plus, but not a minus. Hampton Roads and Shinn went down to the wire before reaching an agreement last Thursday. The deal still needs approval from several governing bodies.
Hockey interest: A mixed factor. Several minor-league franchises failed earlier in Hampton Roads, but the Admirals have drawn exceptionally well since their arrival in 1989.
 
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