News Article: The Eugene Melnyk era in Ottawa (The Athletic)

AchtzehnBaby

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Yeah agree with you. I think it’s probably best for us fans to be able to ‘rip the bandaid off’ so to speak and move on to a new chapter (EM’s family and friends notwithstanding).

Get all the talk out of the way, people can frame the legacy as they see fit with a broader spectrum of the man’s actions shared to the public sphere.

I know I’m ready :)

I think getting over it may take longer than the “karlsson, stone, Turris trades” for some.
 
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Emerica

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For the people moaning and groaning about the article, feel free to join and make your stance known. Would be a shame to let this opportunity to stand behind your convictions and moral high ground slip away by keeping your complaints anonymous.

 

bert

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For the people moaning and groaning about the article, feel free to join and make your stance known. Would be a shame to let this opportunity to stand behind your convictions and moral high ground slip away by keeping your complaints anonymous.


This is terrific. Thank you for posting this.
 

Micklebot

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For the people moaning and groaning about the article, feel free to join and make your stance known. Would be a shame to let this opportunity to stand behind your convictions and moral high ground slip away by keeping your complaints anonymous.


didn't he do something similar a while back when people were questioning him on media's role a while back when some other story broke and people called him too negative or something? I'm guess the same people are many if the ones complaining now, and likely won't show up...
 

Neil Patrick Harris

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didn't he do something similar a while back when people were questioning him on media's role a while back when some other story broke and people called him too negative or something? I'm guess the same people are many if the ones complaining now, and likely won't show up...
He did. I think he mentioned in an earlier Melnyk thread as an opportunity to have a frank discussion about his reporting, and somebody said they wouldn't take part because they felt it was purely fluff.

There was also some accusation about Mendes being paid for it, which was the inspiration for my current custom title. Fun times.
 
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Knave

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didn't he do something similar a while back when people were questioning him on media's role a while back when some other story broke and people called him too negative or something? I'm guess the same people are many if the ones complaining now, and likely won't show up...
Why would you show up? What possible reason does anyone have to go to a situation that completely favors the host in what will certainly be a failed attempt to get answers and information from said host?

They want to stick to their podcast. That's fine. That's their prerogative. But anyone reading should understand this: If Mendes and anyone else was actually interested in an honest and open discussion of their work there are a multitude of forums for that. They have chosen to avoid that. They have made it clear they are not interested in that.

I have zero interest in asking Mendes questions. It's not some high moral conviction that I think the Ottawa media landscape has been terrible for decades.
 

Neil Patrick Harris

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Why would you show up? What possible reason does anyone have to go to a situation that completely favors the host in what will certainly be a failed attempt to get answers and information from said host?

They want to stick to their podcast. That's fine. That's their prerogative. But anyone reading should understand this: If Mendes and anyone else was actually interested in an honest and open discussion of their work there are a multitude of forums for that. They have chosen to avoid that. They have made it clear they are not interested in that.
Kind of an odd post considering Ian Mendes was literally posting on this forum up until a year ago, and got chased off by people making the exact sort of accusation you're making here right now.
 

Knave

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Kind of an odd post considering Ian Mendes was literally posting on this forum up until a year ago, and got chased off by people making the exact sort of accusation you're making here right now.
Oh okay, so that makes it okay.

For the record - I ignored him up until now but this is a serious topic and this is the angle he has chosen and that people arguing on his behalf have chosen.

Just editing to add one last thing - there are forums that are not a literal hockey forum where he could go and be open to questions and an honest discussion. I don't begrudge anyone for reading HFBoards and leaving. But it's not podcast or hockey forums with nothing in between.
 

AchtzehnBaby

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didn't he do something similar a while back when people were questioning him on media's role a while back when some other story broke and people called him too negative or something? I'm guess the same people are many if the ones complaining now, and likely won't show up...
I thought it got cancelled at the last minute due to lack of interest.
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

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Ian is standing behind the article. You may not like his chosen forum, but he's putting himself out there to answer questions regardless. Good for him.

The guy can't win. All the criticism about timing would be there regardless of when it came out, it just might come from different people since it seems clear there's no consensus.

Besides, the conversation should be about the subject of the article before the authors.
 
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Neil Patrick Harris

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Oh okay, so that makes it okay.

For the record - I ignored him up until now but this is a serious topic and this is the angle he has chosen and that people arguing on his behalf have chosen.

Just editing to add one last thing - there are forums that are not a literal hockey forum where he could go and be open to questions and an honest discussion. I don't begrudge anyone for reading HFBoards and leaving. But it's not podcast or hockey forums with nothing in between.
Pretty easy to see how the sports media landscape in Ottawa ends up dominated by the Garrioches and Brennans when the fanbase prefers to spit on anyone who attempts to engage with them, preferring to presume that any attempt to do so is some conniving act of bad faith.

And gee, that's a pretty easy position to take too. Means you never actually have to engage with the person you're being critical of.

Maybe Mendes should consider renting out the Shaw Centre and holding a public town hall, maybe that would be transparent enough for his critics to maybe consider the possibility of taking part.
 

Knave

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Pretty easy to see how the sports media landscape in Ottawa ends up dominated by the Garrioches and Brennans when the fanbase prefers to spit on anyone who attempts to engage with them, preferring to presume that any attempt to do so is some conniving act of bad faith.

And gee, that's a pretty easy position to take too. Means you never actually have to engage with the person you're being critical of.

Maybe Mendes should consider renting out the Shaw Centre and holding a public town hall, maybe that would be transparent enough for his critics to maybe consider the possibility of taking part.
Who is being spat on here? There seems to be almost cut-like praise of Mendes and his work. Any attempt to question that timeline and why this didn't come out sooner is meant with "GARRIOCH BAD, YOU MUST LIKE HIM", "YOU MUST HAVE WANTED TO COVERED IT ALL UP FOR MELNYK".

As for bad faith we only need to listen to Mendes in his own words. He started by stating he would not discuss it. Now he is saying he will discuss it - but only exclusively on his terms. Again, fine. But don't come in here posting "why won't you phone in to Mendes' show and ask these questions" when we all know the answer.

Why do you think Ben Shapiro debates college kids? Same reason. It's all about complete control over narrative rather than an actual open and honest discussion.

Maybe Mendes, should consider renting the Shaw Centre or a public town hall. Meanwhile you seem to have completely glossed over how selective he has been discussing this in the media. Mission accomplished by Mendes, his fans eat it up as per usual.
 

OD99

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Who is being spat on here? There seems to be almost cut-like praise of Mendes and his work. Any attempt to question that timeline and why this didn't come out sooner is meant with "GARRIOCH BAD, YOU MUST LIKE HIM", "YOU MUST HAVE WANTED TO COVERED IT ALL UP FOR MELNYK".

As for bad faith we only need to listen to Mendes in his own words. He started by stating he would not discuss it. Now he is saying he will discuss it - but only exclusively on his terms. Again, fine. But don't come in here posting "why won't you phone in to Mendes' show and ask these questions" when we all know the answer.

Why do you think Ben Shapiro debates college kids? Same reason. It's all about complete control over narrative rather than an actual open and honest discussion.

Maybe Mendes, should consider renting the Shaw Centre or a public town hall. Meanwhile you seem to have completely glossed over how selective he has been discussing this in the media. Mission accomplished by Mendes, his fans eat it up as per usual.
I am only going by recent posts but it feels you may be all over Mendes as a publicity hound if he was doing multiple interviews. And who would these interviewers be that would hold his feet to the fire that would satisfy you?

The guy has been in Ottawa media a long time and earned a rep as a good journalist for a variety of reasons and has put out a joint article that seemed to be well researched and put out with some thought behind it. However they came up with the timing is up to the group, including editors so not sure how this seems like a conspiracy to you?

What are you hoping to hear? What would make the timing palatable or what would convince you there was some sinister reason behind it?
 

Micklebot

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Why would you show up? What possible reason does anyone have to go to a situation that completely favors the host in what will certainly be a failed attempt to get answers and information from said host?

They want to stick to their podcast. That's fine. That's their prerogative. But anyone reading should understand this: If Mendes and anyone else was actually interested in an honest and open discussion of their work there are a multitude of forums for that. They have chosen to avoid that. They have made it clear they are not interested in that.

I have zero interest in asking Mendes questions. It's not some high moral conviction that I think the Ottawa media landscape has been terrible for decades.
You've made it pretty clear you aren't interested in an honest discussion with him seeing as how he offered a venue for you to ask whatever you want and all you do is complain about the venue based on a presumed outcome. Maybe show up and if goes how you think it will, you'll have every right to say I told you so, but you clearly see what you want to see and then decry anyone else as being a fan boy or cult of Mendes for not buying what you're selling.
 

Neil Patrick Harris

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Who is being spat on here? There seems to be almost cut-like praise of Mendes and his work. Any attempt to question that timeline and why this didn't come out sooner is meant with "GARRIOCH BAD, YOU MUST LIKE HIM", "YOU MUST HAVE WANTED TO COVERED IT ALL UP FOR MELNYK".
Ian Mendes was spat on. The man used to be a fairly regular presence on this forum. Then he got accused of acting in bad faith and chose to leave.

And the point of mentioning Garrioch and Brennan weren't to simply state "Garrioch bad". The point is that Garrioch and Brennan rarely, if ever, engage with the Senators fanbase on a level that somebody like Mendes does.
As for bad faith we only need to listen to Mendes in his own words. He started by stating he would not discuss it. Now he is saying he will discuss it - but only exclusively on his terms. Again, fine. But don't come in here posting "why won't you phone in to Mendes' show and ask these questions" when we all know the answer.
You think somebody deciding to have a discussion about their reporting, after initially declaring they would not, is an act of bad faith? Seems quite the opposite to me. And yeah, the discussion would be on his terms considering he's the one organizing it.

And I am quite sure I know the answer as to why you and other critics wouldn't phone into Mendes' show and ask him directly. I'm also quite sure it's not the answer you think it is.
Why do you think Ben Shapiro debates college kids? Same reason. It's all about complete control over narrative rather than an actual open and honest discussion.
I don't see Shapiro and Mendes as being ethically equal. I also don't presume that every figure offering to hold a discussion is doing so in bad faith because they're using a platform that is convenient.
Maybe Mendes, should consider renting the Shaw Centre or a public town hall. Meanwhile you seem to have completely glossed over how selective he has been discussing this in the media. Mission accomplished by Mendes, his fans eat it up as per usual.
Yeah, the sports media guy should really consider renting out a conference center and holding a public town hall. That sounds like a very reasonable and not at all wholly out-of-scale thing to do. Maybe then all those with a chip on their shoulder and and axe to grind would feel comfortable telling Mendes to his face just how much they hate him.
 

Knave

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I am only going by recent posts but it feels you may be all over Mendes as a publicity hound if he was doing multiple interviews. And who would these interviewers be that would hold his feet to the fire that would satisfy you?
It's not about holding feet to fire but asking questions including tough questions in a neutral setting.

I don't know who contacted them after they wrote their article so I don't know who is interested and who the interviewers would have been but this is a pretty big story about a big organization and its owner. There would have been significant interest.

Instead we see commentary on it staying within the Athletic to push subscriptions. We heard Mendes flat out say he wouldn't be discussing it anymore.

Again I don't have a huge issue with it beyond confirming how I already felt about yet another member of the Ottawa media but when people come out with posts trying to prove a point like "see, SEE, Mendes is open to a discussion here" and "oh you're too afraid to call into Mendes and ask him the tough questions" it gets silly and reality needs to be pointed out.

Mendes didn't need to rent the CTC and hold a Q&A. Mendes and that team simply needed to answer the phones and book a few interviews on some reputable news shows for a public interest piece. Some basic, basic, basic stuff. That was not done.

But hooray, praise be the lord Mendes! "Shaw Centre, rah rah rah. I come across like a reasonable person".
 

Masked

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They want to stick to their podcast. That's fine. That's their prerogative. But anyone reading should understand this: If Mendes and anyone else was actually interested in an honest and open discussion of their work there are a multitude of forums for that. They have chosen to avoid that. They have made it clear they are not interested in that.

Are you really looking for an honest and open discussion or just a platform that gives a voice to ignoramuses, trolls, whiners and other bad actors?

Anyone crapping on Mendes for exposing a rather horrible person clearly has an agenda for doing that.

Assen na yo!
 

coladin

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That is not how I interpreted what he said. He and Strang seemed to indicate that the story was about 95% but they got the final confirmation from sources after his death. It seemed that some people were reluctant to go on record earlier due to legal action or other retribution. It was on one fo the two podcasts that Mendes said they only got some of the final info after Melnyk's death. They asked some of the sources after he died how they felt about the story coming out now.
Yes, I can agree with that. My interpretation was the most recent piece, the Ukrainian guy angle would have been the last piece of the puzzle. But , for me anyways, they most damning parts of the articles existed in 2019 and 2020, and even 2021, the LGBTQ and BLM comments
 

Knave

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Are you really looking for an honest and open discussion or just a platform that gives a voice to ignoramuses, trolls, whiners and other bad actors?
I guess some people need to read this so I'll say it more directly instead of being facetious like in earlier posts: I was not seriously suggesting he book the Shaw Centre and take questions from anyone who shows up.

This was a public interest piece for the owner of an NHL franchise. There would have been various news outlets, news shows and others that would have contacted Mendes and that team about an interview for example. Instead very early on from Mendes we got "I won't be discussing it here" and now it will be a discussion limited to The Athletic.

Generally speaking with public interest pieces... the people who uncovered the wrongdoing do a media tour to bring awareness, to showcase their work and they're open to questions about things from media professionals.

I would also suggest given Melnyk's public comments not much was exposed. Was more uncovered? Sure. But we're talking about the guy who was whining about Bill O'Reilly being off air after Fox settled the sexual harassment lawsuits brought forward by his victims.
 

Micklebot

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I guess some people need to read this so I'll say it more directly instead of being facetious like in earlier posts: I was not seriously suggesting he book the Shaw Centre and take questions from anyone who shows up.

This was a public interest piece for the owner of an NHL franchise. There would have been various news outlets, news shows and others that would have contacted Mendes and that team about an interview for example. Instead very early on from Mendes we got "I won't be discussing it here" and now it will be a discussion limited to The Athletic.

Generally speaking with public interest pieces... the people who uncovered the wrongdoing do a media tour to bring awareness, to showcase their work and they're open to questions about things from media professionals.

I would also suggest given Melnyk's public comments not much was exposed. Was more uncovered? Sure. But we're talking about the guy who was whining about Bill O'Reilly being off air after Fox settled the sexual harassment lawsuits brought forward by his victims.
I get it, you want him to do a promo tour on other news outlets, but are unwilling to go direct to the source because you assume his unwillingness to go on other shows indicates an unwillingness to have an honest discussion. I'd submit there are other potential explanations, for example the athletic thinking they'd get more people to subscribe to their service to hear about the story this way than to have mendes or strang to a tour and asking him not to go on those shows. At the end though, he's offered an open venue, live no less and invited anyone who wants to come. You've decided that one isn't good enough for some reason before even giving it a chance, and accused him of nefarious motivations. It bears repeating, you see what you want to see.
 
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coladin

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I think having met Ian a few times at a few charity events, shared some drinks and convos about life, my general feeling is he is very uncomfortable right now. My take on Ian, and this is just me, is he is uncomfortable with someone not liking him, and this type of article is something that I cannot recall him doing in the past. It is very outside of his "comfort zone" whereas Katie Strang is well known for this type of exposé. He is a fine man to put himself in that position, braver than me. But these types of journalistic steps require Ian to be brave and stand behind everything. Good on him. I expect people will take some unfair and overhanded runs at him.

Does he need to do it? Absolutely not. I question the timing, not the article, and it isn't like I think differently of him now. He is a good man.

And to each their own with regard to the timing, that is pretty clear here. Personally, after losing my father, 17 days after, while in the midst of neverending legal necessities, estate stuff, your own personal grief, I would think that there are better times to release it. I know personally that three months later, when the fog has cleared somewhat, I would have preferred if it were me. I think best would have been if my dad was alive to either scoff, dismiss , respond or threaten to sue over untruths (if necessary). I don't think Melnyk would have cared about the c word stuff as much as how the article portrayed him as homophobic and , at the very least, insensitive to BLM, and at worst...Geez I don't know. I think racist is a little tricky to label but not sure how to label it. I guess you are either racist or not!
 

Knave

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I get it, you want him to do a promo tour on other news outlets, but are unwilling to go direct to the source because you assume his unwillingness to go on other shows indicates an unwillingness to have an honest discussion. I'd submit there are other potential explanations, for example the athletic thinking they'd get more people to subscribe to their service to hear about the story this way than to have mendes or strang to a tour and asking him not to go on those shows. At the end though, he's offered an open venue, live no less and invited anyone who wants to come. You've decided that one isn't good enough for some reason before even giving it a chance, and accused him of nefarious motivations. It bears repeating, you see what you want to see.
We all see what we want to see. The fact of the matter is one venue has been offered. One venue they have complete control over. The point is the setup itself is inherently biased. It's not that they might be biased when the discussion starts. The bias is inherent and can only get worse, not better.

And I agree with you it's likely to sell subscriptions. But I would put forward - what does this say about integrity at The Athletic? To me it suggests journalistic integrity might not always come first. Informing the public certainly doesn't otherwise why not do some outside media? It's an unhealthy level of control if it's true.
 

Micklebot

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We all see what we want to see. The fact of the matter is one venue has been offered. One venue they have complete control over. The point is the setup itself is inherently biased. It's not that they might be biased when the discussion starts. The bias is inherent and can only get worse, not better.

And I agree with you it's likely to sell subscriptions. But I would put forward - what does this say about integrity at The Athletic? To me it suggests journalistic integrity might not always come first. Informing the public certainly doesn't otherwise why not do some outside media? It's an unhealthy level of control if it's true.
good lord, you're accusing them of things they haven't done, you see that right? You've gone straight to comparing them to Ben freaking Shapiro because what, they used the companies livepodcast forum to facilitate discussion, the horror... Get back to me when they actually abuse the control they have over that forum, until then they aren't the ones trying to control the narrative,

What does it say about the athletic, it says they are trying to find a way to provide quality journalism in an era where the quality has plummeted thanks to revenue streams drying up and need to be mindful of getting their subscribers if they want to continue putting out long for journalism like this, and that this particular story doesn't require extra promoting as it's getting enough traction as it is.
 
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Knave

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good lord, you're accusing them of things they haven't done, you see that right? You've gone straight to comparing them to Ben freaking Shapiro because what, they used the companies livepodcast forum to facilitate discussion, the horror... Get back to me when they actually abuse the control they have over that forum, until then they aren't the ones trying to control the narrative,

What does it say about the athletic, it says they are trying to find a way to provide quality journalism in an era where the quality has plummeted thanks to revenue streams drying up and need to be mindful of getting their subscribers if they want to continue putting out long for journalism like this, and that this particular story doesn't require extra promoting as it's getting enough traction as it is.
I was making a point that they are incredibly selective with who, when, where they will engage. The examples of people who do this do not paint a flattering picture.
 

Micklebot

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I was making a point that they are incredibly selective with who, when, where they will engage. The examples of people who do this do not paint a flattering picture.
The examples you chose don't. You chose those examples because of the picture the paint. See, I can make accusations of bias too.

Maybe wait till they actually abuse something before making accusations, that's all I'm saying.
 

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