Player Discussion: The Elvis Thread

[CBJWerenski8]

I could buy it either way.

Having a failed communication in year 4 of living in a country in your 4th language is not going to be that rare for many people.

He lives here full time. English is practically his first language now

 

[majormajor]

English is practically his first language now

It's usually not that easy.

And for some it wouldn't matter if it was 5 or 10 years. I could imagine moving to Paris and still having routine confusion in 5 years.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

It's usually not that easy.

And for some it wouldn't matter if it was 5 or 10 years. I could imagine moving to Paris and still having routine confusion in 5 years.

Slip ups? Sure. It happens

Slip ups that the guy wants to “kill you”? I don’t know about that.

 

[koteka]

Slip ups? Sure. It happens

Slip ups that the guy wants to “kill you”? I don’t know about that.

I recently had to explain to someone who has lived in the US for 10+ years what “jumping your bones” meant because they did not use it in the correct manner. They thought it meant more like fighting than sex. Idioms and slang are very hard. I read a book once where the guy was a business man who made up idioms when he talked to non native speakers just to keep them off balance in business dealings.

 

[domi28]

I recently had to explain to someone who has lived in the US for 10+ years what “jumping your bones” meant because they did not use it in the correct manner. They thought it meant more like fighting than sex. Idioms and slang are very hard. I read a book once where the guy was a business man who made up idioms when he talked to non native speakers just to keep them off balance in business dealings.

And after that you can add the generation difference between most coaching staffs and players. My 49 year old girlfriend grew up in Thailand but has lived here the past 17 years. Listening to conversations between her and my neighbor's daughter who is 16 is hilarious. There's times I don't really know what the kiddo is talking about and I can assure you English has been my native language for 49 years.

There's plenty of reasons to be concerned about Elvis and his future with this team but I don't think the Larsen thing is one of them.

 

[squashmaple]

I dunno, I buy that strong emotion affects language centers in your brain, especially if you’re storting through multiple languages. Elvis is super volatile, too.

From personal experience, my maternal grandfather seemed to utterly forget English as soon as there was a strong emotion. It was his third language, learned when he went to school even though he was born in New Jersey. His parents spoke a patois of French and Italian, coming from near Grenoble and Sarno respectively. He earned a PhD from Rutgers and even something as minor as traffic had him yelling in Italian (his mother’s language). His English was perfect, but he’d cry in French at weddings or when my grandmother rolled her eyes at him (which was often… he was very dramatic).

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

And we wonder why Voronkov might want to go home because he speaks no English.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

I dunno, I buy that strong emotion affects language centers in your brain, especially if you’re storting through multiple languages. Elvis is super volatile, too.

From personal experience, my maternal grandfather seemed to utterly forget English as soon as there was a strong emotion. It was his third language, learned when he went to school even though he was born in New Jersey. His parents spoke a patois of French and Italian, coming from near Grenoble and Sarno respectively. He earned a PhD from Rutgers and even something as minor as traffic had him yelling in Italian (his mother’s language). His English was perfect, but he’d cry in French at weddings or when my grandmother rolled her eyes at him (which was often… he was very dramatic).

Sounds pretty common. I've read and heard many stories people are getting yelled at in Yiddish or Italian by an elderly mother or grandmother from the "old country"

The fact of the matter is we take for granted English because it's all we know but for outsiders, English is the hardest language to learn because we have so many rules and exceptions to those rules. The English language makes no sense.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I’m still trying to figure out how if one guy is an issue for literally everyone else not only in the locker room but in the organization, how it hasn’t been handled. A scenario where the issue is isolated and exclusive should be the easiest kind because it takes no real management.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

I recently had to explain to someone who has lived in the US for 10+ years what “jumping your bones” meant because they did not use it in the correct manner. They thought it meant more like fighting than sex. Idioms and slang are very hard. I read a book once where the guy was a business man who made up idioms when he talked to non native speakers just to keep them off balance in business dealings.

Yeah I’m not saying everything would be perfect. But, assuming the Larsen conversation was about hockey or the hockey team in some way, how much grey area is there?

 

[thebus88]

And we wonder why Voronkov might want to go home because he speaks no English.

Nobody “wonders why”…..

I think everyone has always understood the cultural and language barriers that exist when people come from different cultures and countries, especially at first or at a young age.

One of those people is probably Brad Larsen. Somebody who has both PLAYED and COACHED over 10 years each at the highest levels of pro hockey, as I’m sure he’s had interactions with literally countless amount of European players.

Why is Elvis seemingly the only player who is continuously being “misunderstood” or having issues with coaches and other players?? Why even bring up Larsen specifically or answer the questions in that way??

Again, who he is, is the problem. As both a goalie or teammate. Unbelievable contract that Jarmo (and ANYBODY else supportive of the decision) could or should have been fired for alone.

 

[thebus88]

I’m still trying to figure out how if one guy is an issue for literally everyone else not only in the locker room but in the organization, how it hasn’t been handled. A scenario where the issue is isolated and exclusive should be the easiest kind because it takes no real management.

Very good question.

To be clear, nobody is saying EVERYONE hates Elvis or that he is the ONLY problem with the team.

That said, I ask, what positive aspect does Elvis Merzlikins bring to the Columbus Blue Jackets??

Call it “hate” all you want, the Merzlikins/Laine Era has been a DISASTER.

The RED FLAGS have always been there.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

Nobody “wonders why”…..

I think everyone has always understood the cultural and language barriers that exist when people come from different cultures and countries, especially at first or at a young age.

One of those people is probably Brad Larsen. Somebody who has both PLAYED and COACHED over 10 years each at the highest levels of pro hockey, as I’m sure he’s had interactions with literally countless amount of European players.

Why is Elvis seemingly the only player who is continuously being “misunderstood” or having issues with coaches and other players?? Why even bring up Larsen specifically or answer the questions in that way??

Again, who he is, is the problem. As both a goalie or teammate. Unbelievable contract that Jarmo (and ANYBODY else supportive of the decision) could or should have been fired for alone.

Ok, we get it. You hate the guy. We've known it all along.

 

[thebus88]

Ok, we get it. You hate the guy. We've known it all along.

You’ve been in here blindly defending Elvis in every possible way. Literally saying that a GROUP of players, whatever that number really is, are the actual problem and should be moved on from, because THEY have a problem with their “starting goalie” they are forced to play in front of.

I ask this question sincerely and genuinely, as I believe you DO NOT understand what the dynamic should be between a team and its goalie, have you ever played on a hockey team??

The problem is you can’t dispute the logical comments I made about the countless amounts of European/Russian CBJ players, along with all the people that Larsen has interacted with during his career without issues, and that NONE have had this many regular cases of “misunderstandings” OR portrayed themselves in the way that Elvis has in relationship to the team.

And no, he ain’t no Belfour, Hextall, or Patty Roy, sorry. If he was actually a good goalie he’d get more “leeway” from me.

I “hate” what he has done to the CBJ. I also “hate” that I was RIGHT “all along”, and that I had to fight the perception (as I unfortunately have to do regularly) that I was “anti CBJ”, simply because I’m AGAINST THE PLAYERS WHO HURT THE TEAM!!

 

[Viqsi]

The problem is you can’t dispute the logical comments I made about the countless amounts of European/Russian CBJ players, along with all the people that Larsen has interacted with during his career without issues, and that NONE have had this many regular cases of “misunderstandings” OR portrayed themselves in the way that Elvis has in relationship to the team.

We can and do, because they are being made with insufficient (and in some cases a complete absence of) evidence by somebody who has already made it overwhelmingly clear how completely they're consumed by confirmation bias when it comes to certain players. There is literally nobody else here who has this level of persistent, obsessive disgust with specific players than you. Literally nobody reaches the levels you do with guys like Elvis and Laine and Bobrovsky and Wisniewski and a bunch of others I'm likely forgetting - and you have never, not once, not under any circumstances ever shown any inclination to reassess such evaluations of your "targets" in light of new evidence here or elsewhere.

You've got great insight on a lot of guys and elements of the game which is very welcome, but these Holy Crusades continue to be your biggest blind spot, and it's crippling your credibility.

 

[majormajor]

I’m still trying to figure out how if one guy is an issue for literally everyone else not only in the locker room but in the organization, how it hasn’t been handled. A scenario where the issue is isolated and exclusive should be the easiest kind because it takes no real management.

What do you mean by "handled"?

 

[thebus88]

What do you mean by "handled"?

To add to this, we’ve seen what happened to the 2 coaches who attempted to “handle” him in whichever way they felt was needed. There are now 2 stories in the OPEN, admitted by both Foligno and Merzlikins himself, where there was some sort of “confrontation”. Foligno (or Atkinson I don’t remember) had quotes going ALL the way back about him rubbing the TEAM the wrong way.

Now look at his relationship with Vincent. Tarasov, Martin, now Greaves, and the “backup” talk. That’s 3 coaches.

How many more interactions have there been and with who? You think Elvis has had these interactions with these coaches and they’ve seemingly acted “overly emotional”, and he hasn’t had any similar experiences with other players??

Jarmo has failed on so many evaluations at this point. And JD is the ex professional goalie. And that dork comes up with the contracts?

Torts should have been promoted to GM

 

[NotWendell]

If there's one thing this club does well it's make excuses for their mistakes and poor results. This topic is symbolic of a bigger problem.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

What do you mean by "handled"?

Dealt with. Addressed. Resolved.

 

[Ice9]

Hate to buy him out and not sure anyone is busting any doors down to get him but this page probably needs turned.

 

[Iron Balls McGinty]

You’ve been in here blindly defending Elvis in every possible way. Literally saying that a GROUP of players, whatever that number really is, are the actual problem and should be moved on from, because THEY have a problem with their “starting goalie” they are forced to play in front of.

I ask this question sincerely and genuinely, as I believe you DO NOT understand what the dynamic should be between a team and its goalie, have you ever played on a hockey team??

The problem is you can’t dispute the logical comments I made about the countless amounts of European/Russian CBJ players, along with all the people that Larsen has interacted with during his career without issues, and that NONE have had this many regular cases of “misunderstandings” OR portrayed themselves in the way that Elvis has in relationship to the team.

And no, he ain’t no Belfour, Hextall, or Patty Roy, sorry. If he was actually a good goalie he’d get more “leeway” from me.

I “hate” what he has done to the CBJ. I also “hate” that I was RIGHT “all along”, and that I had to fight the perception (as I unfortunately have to do regularly) that I was “anti CBJ”, simply because I’m AGAINST THE PLAYERS WHO HURT THE TEAM!!

I'm PRO finding someone to get the job done and giving the opportunity. He hasn't gotten it done. It doesn't mean he's a terrible human being like you paint him out to be.

You just like being the loudest voice in the room who speaks your mind out loud with way too many words that don't really say anything at all claiming you are "Pro Team." You biggest issue is that you treat players you think are hurting the team with such disgust I even wonder if you value them as a human being. You are never willing to actually consider they have a side of the story for their side of every "incident" as well. The mere mention of Elvis's name will send you off on a long diatribe of complaints that don't even relete to the original topic that was being discussed.

I believe the truth for everything lies in the middle. I don't blindly believe everything reported is the gospel. I don't believe everything Elvis says the the firm truth either.

For the record, I don't believe Elvis is such a terrible human being like you and some other seem to paint him out to be. By all accounts he seemed to be having a great time at their end of season Paintball outing as a team. But I also will admit that he does speak his mind and say what lots of people only think out loud and it can rub people the wrong way. Maybe the reason you don't like Elvis so much is because you are too similar to him and his personality yourself?

To sum it all up, I'm disappointed Elvis has become such a polarizing figure. I really hoped he could be the guy and he has the potential to be but just can't stay healthy and he's had to deal with a lot of shit. I'm just not going to post the same negative thoughts over and over about it on a message board with some superiority complex to make me feel better about myself.

 

[majormajor]

Dealt with. Addressed. Resolved.

By doing what?

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

By doing what?

If I knew that I could be team leadership. Besides I’m always told “pro sports isn’t like your job”.

What I’m trying to get at is the idea that a locker room in which one player is an issue and can’t get on the same page as the remainder of the squad, whoever’ job it is to manage that situation should benefit from the fact that any measure will have the full support of the group.

I’m saying the cards are stacked in favor of anyone who might be responsible for addressing a serious locker room issue. And yet here we are. Why?

 

[NotCommitted]

This first paragraph is to humor you @thebus88 - when do we finally talk about that time when Elvis lost his marbles at either Boqvist or Bean and Laine skated to Elvis and gave him a gentle tap on the pads and pressed his head against his helmet and had a few words with him. Makes me tear up a little just remembering that epic show of leadership by Laine. What do you make of that body language?

Seriously though the problem reading "body language" from singular incidents and then assigning some grand meaning and significance of ultimate truth on those conclusions is they are just moments in time featuring people running high on adrenaline and being intensely focused, which can often result in lack of filters and things coming out really raw. Sure, sometimes they might indicate "something", other times it means absolutely nothing and we usually have no idea if incident X was a seed of all evil or just something the guys laughed about in the locker room after game.

Same thing about interpreting one liners from interviews really, like Gaudreau saying how they really love playing for Tarasov - is that a subtle dig at Elvis or trying to prop up a bad goalie where you can't really compliment his play so you gotta compliment how great he's to play for? Or maybe it's neither. Or both.

Oh and I don't think English is that hard of a language to learn, the only thing that is really messed up with it is the ridiculous spelling which is in a league of it's own compared to most languages. If the spelling made sense and the prononciation in general was a bit more lazy, I think it would be about as easy as Spain, which seems quite easy to me - though I can't speak it But a non-native speaker is always playing catch up, there's just so much "stuff" you learn as a kid growing up with it, idioms are just the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Viqsi]

But a non-native speaker is always playing catch up, there's just so much "stuff" you learn as a kid growing up with it, idioms are just the tip of the iceberg.

True story: while my father and I were still at Nationwide Children's, one of our colleagues (who I believe was from Germany, although I'm not entirely sure) got in the habit of practicing broadening his English skills by going to my father to share and develop plays on words and puns. Apparently it was very effective.