News Article: The Edmonton Rush moving to Saskatoon

[Samus44]

World cup soccer was a footnote in terms of competing with Eskimo games. The overlap for home games was non existent.

The proximity to the mountains is reach at best simply because its a long drive from Edmonton. I can get to Canmore/Banff from my house in an hour for a nice dinner...perhaps that could be considered a competitive draw but something that is 4+ hours really isnt. In any event you could make the argument that any dinner or movie or theater event...etc could be a competitive draw which takes away from going to a game so ultimately I am not convinced that any of this is much of an issue at all.

Also most of the summer festivals you mentioned are daytime activities as well and dont cost a lot of money. Eskimo games are at night and I have a hard time believing a football fan will suggest that a few hours at an underwhelming event like K-days is going to mean no game that week.

Sorry I just dont see this as a compelling argument.

Really this is all about how many actual football fans are in a particular market.

Football fans generally make games a priority and festivals/movies/dinner et al are not going to take away from an ability to attend games.
No center in Canada makes football more of a priority than Regina.

No it's not, i know a TON of people who regularly go to Jasper and such. Not just that but ATVing as well.

 

[Narnia]

No it's not, i know a TON of people who regularly go to Jasper and such. Not just that but ATVing as well.

If you get up early enough, you can get to Jasper and back on the same day, even if it's late at night. We did that once with a friend. We even made it back from Drumheller in one day and both times we left Edmonton. There's also locations nearby like Ukrainian Village and don't forget the giant Easter Egg in Vegreville.

 

[Narnia]

World cup soccer was a footnote in terms of competing with Eskimo games. The overlap for home games was non existent.

The proximity to the mountains is reach at best simply because its a long drive from Edmonton. I can get to Canmore/Banff from my house in an hour for a nice dinner...perhaps that could be considered a competitive draw but something that is 4+ hours really isnt. In any event you could make the argument that any dinner or movie or theater event...etc could be a competitive draw which takes away from going to a game so ultimately I am not convinced that any of this is much of an issue at all.

Also most of the summer festivals you mentioned are daytime activities as well and dont cost a lot of money. Eskimo games are at night and I have a hard time believing a football fan will suggest that a few hours at an underwhelming event like K-days is going to mean no game that week.

Sorry I just dont see this as a compelling argument.

Really this is all about how many actual football fans are in a particular market.

Football fans generally make games a priority and festivals/movies/dinner et al are not going to take away from an ability to attend games.
No center in Canada makes football more of a priority than Regina.

It takes less than 4 hours to get to Jasper. It takes longer if you take a break in Edson.

 

[Samus44]

Also i never thought about it but is curling as well supported anywhere else? We really just don't support semi pro teams, if the league is a top league for it's sport i think we do pretty well. The Rush didn't do poorly by NLL standards for attendance, the league didn't want the team to move from what i gathered. We need to keep in mind this is a league that rarely receives any coverage on the major sport networks and not all that much in the papers either.

 

[guymez]

It takes less than 4 hours to get to Jasper. It takes longer if you take a break in Edson.

Its still a long drive. Not really feasible for a day trip without being a very very long day.

 

[guymez]

No it's not, i know a TON of people who regularly go to Jasper and such. Not just that but ATVing as well.

Sure...sounds reasonable.

I am not sure if you know this but the lakes in Sask are more abundant and for the most part better than anything Alberta has to offer.
Lots of people take advantage of that to make full use of the short summer.

That aside football fans will always find a way to go to games.

 

[Samus44]

Sure...sounds reasonable.

I am not sure if you know this but the lakes in Sask are more abundant and for the most part better than anything Alberta has to offer.
Lots of people take advantage of that to make full use of the short summer.

That aside football fans will always find a way to go to games.

Hey i'm just saying lots of people go to the mountains, and yeah people do do it as a day trip or a weekend, either way they're preoccupied. Nobody is saying there isn't anything to do in Saskatchewan as well, but the mountains certainly trump anything they have to offer. You can get to beautiful wilderness in even Entwistle to Hinton, it's not bad.

 

[joestevens29]

Does this help?

Or https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKd5O4zUEAAqqJ6.jpg

I don't get how this is a pot shot. It's exactly what happened. Northlands was trying to negotiate with Urban, but Urban never got back to Northlands.

This isn't even an Oiler issue. This is an Urban issue and that's it.

 

[joestevens29]

Thats fine.
The point I am trying to make is that Edmontons support of the Eskimos isnt exactly something to hold up in high esteem.

Why, compared to the rest of the league we sold the most tickets last year. And not one building was at 100% so you can't really use that as an excuse.

 

[Speed220DChalavan]

World cup soccer was a footnote in terms of competing with Eskimo games. The overlap for home games was non existent.

The proximity to the mountains is reach at best simply because its a long drive from Edmonton. I can get to Canmore/Banff from my house in an hour for a nice dinner...perhaps that could be considered a competitive draw but something that is 4+ hours really isnt. In any event you could make the argument that any dinner or movie or theater event...etc could be a competitive draw which takes away from going to a game so ultimately I am not convinced that any of this is much of an issue at all.

Also most of the summer festivals you mentioned are daytime activities as well and dont cost a lot of money. Eskimo games are at night and I have a hard time believing a football fan will suggest that a few hours at an underwhelming event like K-days is going to mean no game that week.

Sorry I just dont see this as a compelling argument.

Really this is all about how many actual football fans are in a particular market.

Football fans generally make games a priority and festivals/movies/dinner et al are not going to take away from an ability to attend games.
No center in Canada makes football more of a priority than Regina.

I understand my well articulated, thoughtful, value-added points flew above your head. To reiterate:

1. People have limited disposable income/entertainment budgets. More alternatives (like the examples I cited) take away dollars and interest from the Esks.

2. Esks have lead the league in attendance all but 3 years since 1992. Sure it's more popular in Saskatchewan, but by that metric, every other city, including your beloved Calgary, is a poor CFL market.

 

[guymez]

I understand my well articulated, thoughtful, value-added points flew above your head. To reiterate:

1. People have limited disposable income/entertainment budgets. More alternatives (like the examples I cited) take away dollars and interest from the Esks.

2. Esks have lead the league in attendance all but 3 years since 1992. Sure it's more popular in Saskatchewan, but by that metric, every other city, including your beloved Calgary, is a poor CFL market.

Nope...your post simply didn't have any salient points in terms of this comparison IMO. You were reaching IMO. You actually suggested that the World Cup was competition for going to an Eskimo game when it had no influence at all.
I also have a difficult time believing that a football fan will not attend a game because he is going to something like K-days.
Perhaps going to the lake/camping is reasonable simply because that lends itself to not being available to go to a game but that is just as likely to happen in Regina.
Being almost 4 hours from the mountains doesnt trump the ability to go to a lake IMO.

Also not sure why you bring Calgary into this discussion...very perplexing considering it doesn't factor into this comparison in any way. Unless of course you want to discuss proximity to the mountains which you and others seem to think is convenient from Edmonton.

As for the rest of your post...as I stated earlier...Football fans will make football games a priority. Movies/K-days and festivals are not really a factor.

No team has a football audience that can rival the Riders. If Edmonton (Calgary or any other team) had to support their team by expecting fans to drive from a couple of hours around the city it would fail.
The Riders do that year in and year out.

 

[Master Lok]

As for the rest of your post...as I stated earlier...Football fans will make football games a priority. Movies/K-days and festivals are not really a factor.

No team has a football audience that can rival the Riders. If Edmonton had to support their team by expecting fans to drive from a couple of hours around the city it would fail.
The Riders do that year in and year out.

Your argument is that football fans will make football games a priority - despite distance, money or time restrictions. You've used Sask Roughriders as your only example of this point. No question that Roughriders fans are all over the country and show up for their games, but perhaps there are the exception to football fans and not the rule?

That's why the other poster brought Calgary - that its not an Edmonton bad thing - if the only good example of "real" fandom is Roughrider fans, then basically no other team fans are equivalent to that standard. Its not a "football fans are the best fans in the world and Edmonton lacks in those" - its that Roughrider fans are the most dedicated football fans in canada and its a different standard than any other CFL fandom.

- also you do realize that there isn't an NHL team in Saskatchewan right? That That makes the entertainment dollar to spend it only on Roughriders a lot easier. They also didn't get a match in the WWC, or host World Track championships - is there any other option to spend the sport fan dollar on?
- you're saying that the Womens World Cup has negligible crossover with football fans - how did you come up with that conclusion? I attended the WWC with friends who are Eskimo ticketholders. Still the point is that its entertainment dollars that was spent on a big ticket sport item that didn't go to the Eskimos - dollars that could have been spent on them
- wasn't the original argument about the claim that Edmonton isn't a sports town but an Oiler only town?
- 206,000+ attendance in eight Edmonton games at the WWC, including being a part of the record for most attended Womens World Cup tournament ever.

I think its entirely ridiculous argument to propose that just because the Rush - in a sport that no one cared about before they came to town - and now they leave is somehow the basis of the argument that Edmonton is a poor sports town.

 

[Kestrel]

Sure...sounds reasonable.

I am not sure if you know this but the lakes in Sask are more abundant and for the most part better than anything Alberta has to offer.
Lots of people take advantage of that to make full use of the short summer.

That aside football fans will always find a way to go to games.

What if those football fans are also paying for hockey tickets? Being a football fan is not exclusive to being a fan of anything else, and expendable cash is a finite thing. No, hockey is not competing with football during the summer, but just because hockey games happen during the winter does not mean that they don't impact finances in the summer. Not every football fan is going to choose football games at the exclusion of hockey games if that choice has to be made - and if it does, how many football fans are going to do so for the CFL? Or are they perhaps going to go big and make a few trips to NFL games instead if football is that big a deal to them.

 

[Speed220DChalavan]

Nope...your post simply didn't have any salient points in terms of this comparison IMO.

Good that you added "IMO"

The international community vehemently disagrees with your assertion.

You were reaching IMO. You actually suggested that the World Cup was competition for going to an Eskimo game when it had no influence at all.
I also have a difficult time believing that a football fan will not attend a game because he is going to something like K-days.
Perhaps going to the lake/camping is reasonable simply because that lends itself to not being available to go to a game but that is just as likely to happen in Regina.
Being almost 4 hours from the mountains doesnt trump the ability to go to a lake IMO.

Again, the point you're missing is:

a) people have limited entertainment budgets
b) Not every fan is a die hard. Events like World Cup or other summer festivals take away dollars from the Esks. Even increased popularity of the Oilers take money away from the Esks.
c) Since the CFL has lifted the blackout in home markets, attendance has fallen.

Also not sure why you bring Calgary into this discussion...very perplexing considering it doesn't factor into this comparison in any way. Unless of course you want to discuss proximity to the mountains which you and others seem to think is convenient from Edmonton.

1. Because of your long-standing fetish of Calgary and I knew mentioning Calgary's lackluster attendance would ruffle your feathers.

2. Calgary and 7 other CFL markets (excluding Saskatchewan) rank the CFL low in priority.

You made the claim CFL attendance is not something Edmonton should be proud of - all while ignoring that the Esks have lead the league in attendance every year since 2003 except for 3 years.

No team has a football audience that can rival the Riders. If Edmonton (Calgary or any other team) had to support their team by expecting fans to drive from a couple of hours around the city it would fail.
The Riders do that year in and year out.

Saskatchewan also has less competition of other entertainment options, and lacks an NHL team. What's your point?

 

[Gord]

What if those football fans are also paying for hockey tickets? Being a football fan is not exclusive to being a fan of anything else, and expendable cash is a finite thing. No, hockey is not competing with football during the summer, but just because hockey games happen during the winter does not mean that they don't impact finances in the summer. Not every football fan is going to choose football games at the exclusion of hockey games if that choice has to be made - and if it does, how many football fans are going to do so for the CFL? Or are they perhaps going to go big and make a few trips to NFL games instead if football is that big a deal to them.

at least 1. me
I get season tickets for the esks for the price of one oiler game.
much better value for my limited amount of entertainment dollars.

 

[Kestrel]

at least 1. me
I get season tickets for the esks for the price of one oiler game.
much better value for my limited amount of entertainment dollars.

I'm definitely not arguing that it doesn't happen - simply that, as you stated, entertainment dollars are limited, and as a result, not every fan of any particular sport is going to fully support their team - there's competition for those entertainment dollars, and sportX isn't going to win every single time with every fan. It's hard to compare Regina to Edmonton, because they are completely different cities and circumstances.

 

[Gord]

I'm definitely not arguing that it doesn't happen - simply that, as you stated, entertainment dollars are limited, and as a result, not every fan of any particular sport is going to fully support their team - there's competition for those entertainment dollars, and sportX isn't going to win every single time with every fan. It's hard to compare Regina to Edmonton, because they are completely different cities and circumstances.

yeah, agreed. if the rider fans had to shell out 8 or 10 grand for hockey tickets, they might not have as much to spend on going to rider games and rider products. or pilsner, for that matter.

 

[joestevens29]

yeah, agreed. if the rider fans had to shell out 8 or 10 grand for hockey tickets, they might not have as much to spend on going to rider games and rider products. or pilsner, for that matter.

So what you are saying is Pilsner has been keeping the NHL out of SASK?

Makes sense

 

[guymez]

Your argument is that football fans will make football games a priority - despite distance, money or time restrictions. You've used Sask Roughriders as your only example of this point. No question that Roughriders fans are all over the country and show up for their games, but perhaps there are the exception to football fans and not the rule?

That's why the other poster brought Calgary - that its not an Edmonton bad thing - if the only good example of "real" fandom is Roughrider fans, then basically no other team fans are equivalent to that standard. Its not a "football fans are the best fans in the world and Edmonton lacks in those" - its that Roughrider fans are the most dedicated football fans in canada and its a different standard than any other CFL fandom.

- also you do realize that there isn't an NHL team in Saskatchewan right? That That makes the entertainment dollar to spend it only on Roughriders a lot easier. They also didn't get a match in the WWC, or host World Track championships - is there any other option to spend the sport fan dollar on?
- you're saying that the Womens World Cup has negligible crossover with football fans - how did you come up with that conclusion? I attended the WWC with friends who are Eskimo ticketholders. Still the point is that its entertainment dollars that was spent on a big ticket sport item that didn't go to the Eskimos - dollars that could have been spent on them
- wasn't the original argument about the claim that Edmonton isn't a sports town but an Oiler only town?
- 206,000+ attendance in eight Edmonton games at the WWC, including being a part of the record for most attended Womens World Cup tournament ever.

I think its entirely ridiculous argument to propose that just because the Rush - in a sport that no one cared about before they came to town - and now they leave is somehow the basis of the argument that Edmonton is a poor sports town.

I never said that competing sports dollars weren't an issue. We will never know if the Regina dynamic would work in Edmonton or Calgary because they have NHL teams.
I maintain though that very few communities in Canada can match the support the Riders get.

Yes...the includes Edmonton.

You are entitled to disagree though...thats fine by me.

 

[guymez]

Good that you added "IMO"

The international community vehemently disagrees with your assertion.



Again, the point you're missing is:

a) people have limited entertainment budgets
b) Not every fan is a die hard. Events like World Cup or other summer festivals take away dollars from the Esks. Even increased popularity of the Oilers take money away from the Esks.
c) Since the CFL has lifted the blackout in home markets, attendance has fallen.




1. Because of your long-standing fetish of Calgary and I knew mentioning Calgary's lackluster attendance would ruffle your feathers.

2. Calgary and 7 other CFL markets (excluding Saskatchewan) rank the CFL low in priority.

You made the claim CFL attendance is not something Edmonton should be proud of - all while ignoring that the Esks have lead the league in attendance every year since 2003 except for 3 years.





Saskatchewan also has less competition of other entertainment options, and lacks an NHL team. What's your point?

I am not convinced at all that entertainment dollars (especially for things like K-day et al) have any bearing what so ever on Football support. I do think that Gord has a point about competing sports dollars but entertainment events (especially 2nd rate events like K-Days) are not an influencing factor.

You might be too young to remember this but back in the 80's people used to forgo vacations in order to buy Eskimo season tickets. That supports my contention that Football fans will prioritize football games for their disposable income.

Thats my point.

BTW...what on earth makes you think that mentioning Calgary would 'ruffle my feathers'? I am an Eskimo fan...if Calgary doesn't support their team the ONLY thing that concerns me is that it would affect the League as a whole.

It was just a transparent attempt by you at moving the goalposts. Surely you can deliver a better effort than that....or maybe not.

 

[SK13]

So now you're moving your goalposts. All of a sudden are a football town too? Let me reiterate, going back 20 years we have topped the CFL in attendance every year except 2013, 2000 and 1994. Even in those three years we had the second best attendance in the league. And sorry no, this is not just because of Rider fans. And it's not because of our big stadium. A lot of other stadiums were not filled to capacity either. If this isn't a sign that we truly support our team, what does that say about the rest of the cities around the league? They must all be terrible CFL cities.

And as I mentioned, we did support the Trappers. But the Esks were willing to sell us out and the league didn't want us either. Everyone was shocked when they sold that team.

And if we only have three pro teams, big deal. Even a city with the population of Van has only four major pro teams. Calgary has three. Yes, they're so far ahead of us.

The CFL is a bit of a joke on the whole, so I'm not "having the most attendees on average" is that big of a statement. There's a low cost barrier, only a handful of home games a year and we have a ton of transplants from Saskatchewan: The only place where CFL football has significant mindshare. Even then you could be excused for barely noticing the Eskimos exist in this town. By the time the Oilers prospect camp starts up, nobody is paying attention.

"We supported the trappers". So much so that the Eskimos sold them to a party who had relocation as a necessary aspect of the sale. They sounded super profitable. How many baseball teams have we lost since? Two?

 

[Speed220DChalavan]

I am not convinced at all that entertainment dollars (especially for things like K-day et al) have any bearing what so ever on Football support. I do think that Gord has a point about competing sports dollars but entertainment events (especially 2nd rate events like K-Days) are not an influencing factor.

Single events, no. Cumulatively add up all other other events, absolutely an influencing factor. Disposable incomes are not infinite - people just make allocations and prioritize. Over the recent years, the Esks share of pie has just got smaller.

You might be too young to remember this but back in the 80's people used to forgo vacations in order to buy Eskimo season tickets. That supports my contention that Football fans will prioritize football games for their disposable income.

Thats my point.

In the 80's, there was less to to in Edmonton.

It's a different generation, and the CFL is in significant trouble by the demographics.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...e-of-cfl-new-survey-suggests/article25146846/

Predictably, CFL interest in Canada varies by province. Saskatchewan (64 per cent) boasts the highest ahead of Manitoba (51 per cent) and Alberta (42 per cent). B.C. was fourth (29 per cent) followed by Ontario and Quebec (both 21 per cent). Atlantic Canada, which doesn’t have a league franchise, was the lowest at 14 per cent.

In fact, the survey shows that football in Saskatchewan is more popular than the NHL (38 per cent) and curling (36 per cent).

According to the survey, the CFL’s best demographic is men 55 and over, with 47 per cent of respondents saying they follow the league. That drops to 39 per cent for males those between the ages of 35 and 54 and to 26 per cent for those at 18 to 34.

In 10 years, the CFL will be dead...just like it's largest demographic followers.

BTW...what on earth makes you think that mentioning Calgary would 'ruffle my feathers'? I am an Eskimo fan...if Calgary doesn't support their team the ONLY thing that concerns me is that it would affect the League as a whole.

Honest question - what do you make of Edmonton leading the CFL in attendance every year except 3 since 1992?

 

[Del Preston]

Wrong thread, mods please delete.

Wrong thread, mods please delete.

Wrong thread, mods please delete.

Get it together, Hilman!

 

[McHilman]

I agree Del lol.

Lots of empty seats at the Rider game on TV today. I thought they would fill Commonwealth if their stadium held as many

 

[rboomercat90]

I agree Del lol.

Lots of empty seats at the Rider game on TV today. I thought they would fill Commonwealth if their stadium held as many

I noticed this right after the opening kickoff and was going to post something about it. Crowd shots later in the game appeared to show a full building though so who knows.