The Eastern Roman Empire – A Greek Empire?

[cgf]

OK, I'm calling them "Cooler Macedonia" from now on

As for this part:


Nations with some kind of "former glory" always have a big complex about it

It also doesn't help that we are so far separated from that ancient glory and greeks had to watch so many others rise & shrink around them since Constantinople fell.

Being a part of other empires for so many centuries, before getting a chance to reassert their independence, tends to leave a people prickly...

Click to read more...

 

[Evilo]

Constantinople???

 

[maclean]

Constantinople???

Fall of Constantinople - Wikipedia ???

 

[Evilo]

Fall of Constantinople - Wikipedia ???

Yeah lol I know about the fall of Constantinople. But that was the oriental roman empire, not the greek.

 

[maclean]

Yeah lol I know about the fall of Constantinople. But that was the oriental roman empire, not the greek.

Yes, but Greek was the language of the eastern roman empire, so in that sense Greeks could feel that it was kind of "theirs", certainly the large Greek population from that part of the empire was a major factor in later Greek history

 

[cgf]

Yeah lol I know about the fall of Constantinople. But that was the oriental roman empire, not the greek.

The roman empire ended up getting hellinized from within...especially the eastern half...as greek was a common lingua franca & greek culture was hugely influential on the romans; even before they had conquered all of the greek states between them & the Syrian desert.

Well before the western empire officially collapsed, the eastern half of the empire was conducting its business in greek and ethnic greeks had come to dominate the aristocracy. With a lot of ruling dynasties of Constantinople being native greek-speakers; some of whom didn't even speak latin.

That Greek-Latin split was one of the things that antagonized the two halves of the empire against one another in the later stages & continued through the great schism between the roman catholic & greek orthodox churches.

And though they weren't the only power players in the later roman empire; greeks continued to make up the dominant portion of the aristocracy until the 3rd crusade delivered a fatal blow & Mehmed finally put down that state emanating from the Bosphorus, which just kept refusing to die.

E:
There's a (probably apocryphal) story from the greek war of independence in the 20th century, about how greek-speaking people on some of the islands of what we now call greece, still called themselves Romans.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Yeah lol I know about the fall of Constantinople. But that was the oriental roman empire, not the greek.

Can confirm: it was definitely Greek, or more accurately dominated by Greeks and the Greek language since by definition empires consist of different tribes/peoples/languages.

 

[GKJ]

Solid history lessons going on here.

North Macedonia is like the reverse of New Mexico

 

[Albatros]

Can confirm: it was definitely Greek, or more accurately dominated by Greeks and the Greek language since by definition empires consist of different tribes/peoples/languages.

Not that the proud modern-day Greeks agitated by this topic would manage to understand ancient Greek language themselves despite having had to learn it for years in school.

But also the other neighbors tend to have this "it's not a real country anyway" attitude towards (North) Macedonia for a reason or another. I hope they'll win this, Austria is about as beatable as any opponent will get at this level.

 

[Evilo]

The roman empire ended up getting hellinized from within...especially the eastern half...as greek was a common lingua franca & greek culture was hugely influential on the romans; even before they had conquered all of the greek states between them & the Syrian desert.

Well before the western empire officially collapsed, the eastern half of the empire was conducting its business in greek and ethnic greeks had come to dominate the aristocracy. With a lot of ruling dynasties of Constantinople being native greek-speakers; some of whom didn't even speak latin.

That Greek-Latin split was one of the things that antagonized the two halves of the empire against one another in the later stages & continued through the great schism between the roman catholic & greek orthodox churches.

And though they weren't the only power players in the later roman empire; greeks continued to make up the dominant portion of the aristocracy until the 3rd crusade delivered a fatal blow & Mehmed finally put down that state emanating from the Bosphorus, which just kept refusing to die.

E:
There's a (probably apocryphal) story from the greek war of independence in the 20th century, about how greek-speaking people on some of the islands of what we now call greece, still called themselves Romans.

Lol, I'm well aware of that, but you clearly said "greek empire" and the Byzantins were never a greek empire. You can talk about influence, but they were never a greek empire...

Not that it matters much anyway. Just found it odd.

Greek was always talked in the roman empire, even during the Republic and nobody would say it was a greek empire....

 

[Evilo]

Can confirm: it was definitely Greek, or more accurately dominated by Greeks and the Greek language since by definition empires consist of different tribes/peoples/languages.

See above. Romans learnt and talked greek in upper classes. And yet were never part of a "greek empire".

Alors loved the "can confirm" as if you were there

 

[Evilo]

Yes, but Greek was the language of the eastern roman empire, so in that sense Greeks could feel that it was kind of "theirs", certainly the large Greek population from that part of the empire was a major factor in later Greek history

See above.
The language argument is simply false.

 

[Evilo]

Ancient Greece - Wikipedia

 

[keonsbitterness]

Lol, I'm well aware of that, but you clearly saig "greek empire" and the Byzantins were never a greek empire. You can talk about influence, but they were never a greek empire...

Not that it matters much anyway. Just found it odd.

Greek was always talked in the roman empire, even during the Republic and nobody would say it was a greek empire....

After the Christian Roman Empire was established (325 AD) and split into the Latin East and the Greek West shortly thereafter, yes they were. One was ruled from Rome, the other from Constantinople.
Greek East and Latin West - Wikipedia

 

[keonsbitterness]

Ancient Greece - Wikipedia

We're not talking about ancient Greece.

 

[Evilo]

This is factually wrong.
Your own link states :
"In the classical context, "Greek East" refers to the provinces and client states of the Roman Empire in which the lingua franca was primarily Greek."

 

[Evilo]

We're not talking about ancient Greece.

We were talking about greek empire.

 

[Evilo]

Greek empire = hellenistic period.

 

[keonsbitterness]

This is factually wrong.
Your own link states :
"In the classical context, "Greek East" refers to the provinces and client states of the Roman Empire in which the lingua franca was primarily Greek."

Depends which historical Roman Empire one means, and one's definition of Roman. The Holy Roman Empire, for example, founded in 800 AD, was arguably never Holy, Roman, or an Empire. The Imperial Greek Romans of Constantinople refused to recognize that empire as Roman.

 

[Evilo]

Again, it's just historic facts.
You can discuss what you THINK, but the facts are that Constantinople's fall was the fall of the ROMAN empire.

Sorry to be an ass on that, but the roman empire is a specialty in my house. Mrs Evilo is ancient greek and latin teacher and I'm also very much into latin history (though more focused on the Republic period).

 

[keonsbitterness]

Greek empire = hellenistic period.

And also the so-called Byzantine Empire (325-1453), which was a term invented by 19th century German historians. The official name was Roman Empire (Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων, Basileía Rhōmaíōn, Imperium Romanum).

 

[Evilo]

And also the so-called Byzantine Empire (325-1453), which was a term invented by 19th century German historians. The official name was Roman Empire (Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων, Basileía Rhōmaíōn, Imperium Romanum).

 

[keonsbitterness]

Pretty simple: "Roman" for Constaninople Romans was the imperial, national and ethnic identity for medieval Greeks. They even called the language Ρωμαίικα/Roméika, not Greek. Some modern Greeks still use that term for the language.

 

[Evilo]

Well, that's what I'm saying...

 

[Theokritos]

After the Christian Roman Empire was established (325 AD) and split into the Latin East and the Greek West shortly thereafter, yes they were. One was ruled from Rome, the other from Constantinople.

Latin West and Greek East you mean. But actually Latin remained the language of the Eastern Empire until the 7th century.