The disgraceful oversight of Nick Backstrom

[Sojourn]

Ask any of the Capitals about Backstrom, and then pull up a chair as they praise his intelligence, his attention to detail and a skill that’s not appreciated enough outside of Washington’s locker room. Trotz campaigned for him to get his first all-star nod last season, and he has often ranted about how Backstrom’s defensive ability is underrated. Backstrom finished 12th in voting for the Selke Trophy, which goes to the top defensive forward, and that he wasn’t in the top five frustrated Trotz.

Clearly you didn't read it. Keep waving your pom poms for the leagues poster boys while guys like Nick go under the radar.

So, the Caps coach, and a Washington(Caps) newspaper.

That's your many people?

 

[Dustin]

Ya this thread wasn't thought out in advance. While I agree that Backstrom becomes a bit of an after thought due to Ovechkin and that is wrong, there are not too many metrics that would place him as a top 3 finalist for the Selke. Furthermore your over exaggeration of the thread title doesn't bode well either.

Backstrom is a great hockey player. There. Does that make you happy?

 

[Devil Dancer]

So, over a handful of games, and the player in question (Crosby) isn't a favorite for the Selke either.

Actually, a handful of games might be overly generous. Pittsburgh has played Washington, what... twice so far this season? So a two game sample size. Plus a losing effort in the playoffs.

Again, you're the one who brought up Crosby. And your comment about a two game sample size is disingenuous. Going back to the 15-16 playoffs, which I clearly noted in my post, we're talking about a sample size of 9 games.

Also, Crosby is arguably the best offensive player in the world right now, so shutting him down is a major accomplishment.

 

[capebretoncanadien]

I guarantee most of the players that get picked for the All-Star game are like AW CRAP THERE GOES MY FOUR DAY WEEKEND I wouldn't feel the least bit bad for Backstrom he'll be alright.

 

[Phil McKraken]

Ovechkin has been his linemate all his career. That means Backtrom will never get his due. It is what it is.

Backstrom leads the Caps in points (110 points in 117 games) since the beginning of 15-16 while Ovechkin (107 points in 121 games) has been playing mostly with Kuznetsov. Anyone who has seen enough of Backstrom throughout the last decade knows he would be pretty much a career P/PG player with or without Ovechkin.

 

[The Toews Era*]

Backstrom leads the Caps in points (110 points in 117 games) since the beginning of 15-16 while Ovechkin (107 points in 121 games) has been playing mostly with Kuznetsov. Anyone who has seen enough of Backstrom throughout the last decade knows he would be pretty much a career P/PG player with or without Ovechkin.

He plays with ovechkin on the power play .... where a disproportionate number of his points come from

 

[Tomas W]

I guarantee most of the players that get picked for the All-Star game are like AW CRAP THERE GOES MY FOUR DAY WEEKEND I wouldn't feel the least bit bad for Backstrom he'll be alright.

I think Bäckström is perfectly fine with not playing in the all stars. He knows that the regular Capitals representive, Ovechkin does a better job in a event like that since Ovy is much more of a clown (in a good way).

If finnaly Caps does get a deep Cup run, lots of focus will come his way too.

 

[Neil Hamburger]

He's just a hunk.

 

[firstemperor]

One of the few times I'm actually going to agree with the OP, who looks like a homer at first glance.

Backstrom is legit the first name to mind when I think about who's the most underrated player in the NHL.

 

[glovesave_35]

Backstrom has 230 career assists on the power play. Toews has 92. Saying backstrom is nearly ppg, overlooking his es and pp splits as hes playing his whole career feeding ovechkin on pp (or just retrieving pucks that wind up i echkin pp goals) is more than a little misleading.

You've been beating this drum pretty hard in this thread so I am taking a closer look at it now.

The following numbers are from 2011/2012 - Jan 13, 2017 and were filtered by the Center position. Five seasons plus the current partial season seems fair enough to get a picture for two players in their late 20's. I didn't look at either player's individual seasons or anything prior to choosing that as the cutoff. You could likely trim or expand that time-frame and come up with similar numbers and conclusions.

Games Played:

Backstrom: 371
Toews: 379

Total Points:

Backstrom: 359 (7th)
Toews: 318 (13th)

Power Play Points:

Backstrom: 160 (2nd)
Toews: 66 (35th)

Power Play TOI:

Backstrom: 1226:11 (13)
Toews: 1133:29 (19th)

Power Play TOI/GM:

Backstrom: 3:18 (9th)
Toews: 2:59 (21st)

Even Strength Points:

Backstrom: 198 (21st)
Toews: 231 (8th)


Roughly 21% of Toews' points come on the PP. Roughly 45% of Backstrom's points come on the PP. These numbers seem to prove whatever one wants them to. A Toews cheerleader can point to them and how strong he is at ES. Someone arguing the other side could point to Toews' relative ineffectiveness on the PP. These two guys play roughly similar PP minutes, yet Backstrom has scored almost 100 more points with the man advantage. Backstrom has Ovechkin to feed but Toews has had Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, etc. during the bulk of that time as well.

My biggest takeaway from looking at the numbers here is just how effective of a scorer Toews is at ES. What is clearly holding him back from being one of the big boys in terms of scoring is his rather poor scoring on the PP. It seems Backstrom's points may be a tad too heavily slanted toward the PP, but the PP is still a big part of hockey. And, I do tend to think that there is something to being able to get the puck in the wheel-house of a big time shooter like Ovechkin. Every PK the Caps play against knows Ovechkin is the key threat but they can't stop him, and that is largely because of the vision and passing of the players around him, namely Backstrom.

 

[HTFN]

You've been beating this drum pretty hard in this thread so I am taking a closer look at it now.

The following numbers are from 2011/2012 - Jan 13, 2017 and were filtered by the Center position. Five seasons plus the current partial season seems fair enough to get a picture for two players in their late 20's. I didn't look at either player's individual seasons or anything prior to choosing that as the cutoff. You could likely trim or expand that time-frame and come up with similar numbers and conclusions.

Games Played:

Backstrom: 371
Toews: 379

Total Points:

Backstrom: 359 (7th)
Toews: 318 (13th)

Power Play Points:

Backstrom: 160 (2nd)
Toews: 66 (35th)

Power Play TOI:

Backstrom: 1226:11 (13)
Toews: 1133:29 (19th)

Power Play TOI/GM:

Backstrom: 3:18 (9th)
Toews: 2:59 (21st)

Even Strength Points:

Backstrom: 198 (21st)
Toews: 231 (8th)


Roughly 21% of Toews' points come on the PP. Roughly 45% of Backstrom's points come on the PP. These numbers seem to prove whatever one wants them to. A Toews cheerleader can point to them and how strong he is at ES. Someone arguing the other side could point to Toews' relative ineffectiveness on the PP. These two guys play roughly similar PP minutes, yet Backstrom has scored almost 100 more points with the man advantage. Backstrom has Ovechkin to feed but Toews has had Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, etc. during the bulk of that time as well.

My biggest takeaway from looking at the numbers here is just how effective of a scorer Toews is at ES. What is clearly holding him back from being one of the big boys in terms of scoring is his rather poor scoring on the PP. It seems Backstrom's points may be a tad too heavily slanted toward the PP, but the PP is still a big part of hockey. And, I do tend to think that there is something to being able to get the puck in the wheel-house of a big time shooter like Ovechkin. Every PK the Caps play against knows Ovechkin is the key threat but they can't stop him, and that is largely because of the vision and passing of the players around him, namely Backstrom.

It astounds me how many genuinely intelligent hockey people fail to recognize that PP for what it is. Ovechkin is a turret, and while this is weird to say about the generation's best goal scorer, he's not doing his team an inherent favor just by being there. The PP is designed around him shooting from the left wing, yes, but the way they set it up and the reason it works so well is entirely dependent on Backstrom's ability to consistently retain possession, and force opponents to make mistakes. The fact that it can operate so predictably and still produce is only a testament to Backstrom's ability to create space and thread the needle.

It's 2017, and you still read things like "how was Ovechkin left wide open on the PP? It's Ovechkin!" every so often. Nobody realizes that he was covered well for a minute and a half, until Backstrom baited the high guy into initiating and struck like a cobra. If there weren't already a secondary assist, he'd be a poster boy for the campaign to include one, since nearly every time the score sheet says "PPG A. Ovechkin (J. Carlson, N. Backstrom)" the guy with the secondary assist was the one that made the whole play happen. Green/Carlson/Niskanen's thought process has only ever needed to be refined to "am I passing or shooting," and they barely even need to think about who to pass it to.

Backstrom making the pass straight to Ovechkin is usually more impressive, not less, since the pass usually has to go through one or two people if it's going wing to wing like that. The Capitals' power play has only had you ****ed coming and going because there has been a complementary pair of elite players on it for a decade now. If Backstrom weren't as good as he is, it'd make the decision to put a PK'er on Ovie Island and play 4 on 3 a lot easier, that's for sure.

 

[bottomofthefoodchain]

Bäckström is a better PP player than Toews, of course he is going to have more points in that situation.

 

[fredligh]

Wow, so if you are good at feeding the puck to someone 4 guys has been told to shut down you are a scrub player. People underestimate Backstroms ability to wait and cycle the puck until Ovechkin is open. But i forgot this is HFboards.

 

[DamonDRW]

Wow, so if you are good at feeding the puck to someone 4 guys has been told to shut down you are a scrub player. People underestimate Backstroms ability to wait and cycle the puck until Ovechkin is open. But i forgot this is HFboards.

this 1000x times. When your PP is based on a shooting of one player, it is extremely difficult to deliver puck to him.

Bakcstrom is a prototypical 1st line center, top 10 center for sure.

 

[that is unfortunate]

There's not much to talk about with Backstrom honestly, he's been one of the best and most consistent players since entering the league, he's great but simply not good enough to win any individual awards.

 

[Nithoniniel]

There's not much to talk about with Backstrom honestly, he's been one of the best and most consistent players since entering the league, he's great but simply not good enough to win any individual awards.

Yeah that's pretty much it. And there's also a bit of the Chicago-syndrome at play. While he's of course genuinely one of the best at the PP and a big reason for why it's been so good for so long, he's also a PP specialist on a PP filled with weapons for him to use. Both are factors at play, no reason to choose one.

 

[feffan]

Likely true at even strength. I dont buy it on the power play. Highly systematic and entirely based on ovechkins incredible shot.

You underrate how much an Backstrom-type means to an PP. Very few in the leauge can do what he do there. I would think not even 10 players. Ovechkin may be the obvious weapon on that PP to people just glansing in, but Backstrom runs it for an reason.
That PP is built on Backstrom having the puck and drawing the other teams players to him. When the other team has "turned" to much towards him he usually does the perfect pass to whatever right-shooting-defender that´s up at the blue line. That bluliners job then is to then basically "just" do an no-look-pass to Ovechkin, as Backstrom has opened the space with "solving the puzzle". Often with an flip pass over the opponents stick that settles before it reaches the Capital player at the blueline. Seems easy, but hard as hell to pull off on NHL-level. If the opposing team choose to "guard" the pass to the defender, Backstrom will instead try to find the pass directley to Ovechkin when it opens up. An pass not many have the timing and vision to pull off or even try.
If you were arguing that John Carlson/Mike Greenhas/had influtated PP-assist-numbers I would agree, as their role can be played by alot more players. But make no mistake, Backstroms is the one driving that PP.

And for fun. PP-points since Backstrom entered the leauge in 07/08:
Backstrom 286Total Power Play Points in 693Games Played
Ovechkin 301TPPP in 717GP

Since 12/13
Backstrom 141TPPP in 328GP
O 135TPPP in 327GP

So the last 4,5 seasons Backstrom has actually outproduced Ovechkin on the PP. Since 07/08 Backstrom has 0,41PPP/GP and Ovechkin 0,42PPP/GP.

But there´s an reason Brett Hull, one of few that can challenge Ovechkin for having the greatest right shooting PP-shot ever from that area, won his three goal scoring races in the leauge, and they all where when Adam Oates was on the same team. He scored 72, 86 and 70 goals those years. With Oates gone he had 54 and 57 goals the following seasons, then never was over 50 again. Despite having as good shot as Ovechkin.

Just like with all great players, it´s an symbiosis. And of course it´s an perfect match. And just like Crosby and Malkin playing on the PP together since 2006 of course has increased their point totals, the same is for Backstrom and Ovechkin. Or for that mather, Toews, Kane, Keith and all other Blackhawks.

Not sure if there is a player more overlooked and under the radar than Backy.

Give this man the Selke and All-Star games he DESERVES.

Agree fully with the first post. Not the second.

I don´t think Backstrom i Selke-material. And with a bit of luck he would have been on quite a few post season All Star Teams. He´s "unlucky" in that he´s been the 4-12 best center almost every year since his second in the leauge.

Undervalued: yes. Deserving more trophies: no. Even mentioned Oates came away with only 1 2nd Team All Star.

But yeah, he should have gone to the All Star Game a few more times if thoose roosters where picked on who played the best. But it´s a jippo. Nothing to get excited over. And I would think Backstrom himself appreciate the rest more than playing thoose games. No one will say it in public, but I think generally most players would like to rest their bodies, hang out with family/friends on Hawaii rather than go the All Star Weekend. And for that mather, it sure is better for the team the player plays for

 

[The Toews Era*]

You've been beating this drum pretty hard in this thread so I am taking a closer look at it now.

The following numbers are from 2011/2012 - Jan 13, 2017 and were filtered by the Center position. Five seasons plus the current partial season seems fair enough to get a picture for two players in their late 20's. I didn't look at either player's individual seasons or anything prior to choosing that as the cutoff. You could likely trim or expand that time-frame and come up with similar numbers and conclusions.

Games Played:

Backstrom: 371
Toews: 379

Total Points:

Backstrom: 359 (7th)
Toews: 318 (13th)

Power Play Points:

Backstrom: 160 (2nd)
Toews: 66 (35th)

Power Play TOI:

Backstrom: 1226:11 (13)
Toews: 1133:29 (19th)

Power Play TOI/GM:

Backstrom: 3:18 (9th)
Toews: 2:59 (21st)

Even Strength Points:

Backstrom: 198 (21st)
Toews: 231 (8th)


Roughly 21% of Toews' points come on the PP. Roughly 45% of Backstrom's points come on the PP. These numbers seem to prove whatever one wants them to. A Toews cheerleader can point to them and how strong he is at ES. Someone arguing the other side could point to Toews' relative ineffectiveness on the PP. These two guys play roughly similar PP minutes, yet Backstrom has scored almost 100 more points with the man advantage. Backstrom has Ovechkin to feed but Toews has had Kane, Hossa, Sharp, Keith, etc. during the bulk of that time as well.

My biggest takeaway from looking at the numbers here is just how effective of a scorer Toews is at ES. What is clearly holding him back from being one of the big boys in terms of scoring is his rather poor scoring on the PP. It seems Backstrom's points may be a tad too heavily slanted toward the PP, but the PP is still a big part of hockey. And, I do tend to think that there is something to being able to get the puck in the wheel-house of a big time shooter like Ovechkin. Every PK the Caps play against knows Ovechkin is the key threat but they can't stop him, and that is largely because of the vision and passing of the players around him, namely Backstrom.

A few things -

1 - I believe even strength scoring to be the best indicator of an individuals offensive ability. Why? Everyone is on roughly even footing there (with some impact from qoc and qot). The power play not only has those elements but also coaching/system impact and role impact (ie. Are you the designated fulcrum of the power play and getting a lot of assists from merely being in a given role).

Toews has had the misfortune (from a power play production perspective) of playing with Kane his whole career and Kane has served that role in the Hawks.

2 - In addition the Capitals for most seasons have had a much better PP system than the Hawks. Part of this is Quennevilles system has generally been bad (how else does one explain Kane, Keith, etc all being a part of it but the PP still ranking low most seasons). Part of it is also having a generational shooter delivering a vastly above average number of converted opportunities in Ovechkin. This is not to say Backstrom is a bad playmaker, its clear he is quite good. But stick him on an average team and his production on the PP probably declines 20%+. This is obvious by the high % of total points he earns on the PP. if he were truly so offensively gifted he would be scoring more at even strength but he does not. The power play, namely Ovechkin, is driving his production artificially higher in a sense.

 

[The Toews Era*]

Bäckström is a better PP player than Toews, of course he is going to have more points in that situation.

Perhaps but not by that severe a margin. A lot of the margin is because of Ovechkin

 

[The Toews Era*]

It astounds me how many genuinely intelligent hockey people fail to recognize that PP for what it is. Ovechkin is a turret, and while this is weird to say about the generation's best goal scorer, he's not doing his team an inherent favor just by being there. The PP is designed around him shooting from the left wing, yes, but the way they set it up and the reason it works so well is entirely dependent on Backstrom's ability to consistently retain possession, and force opponents to make mistakes. The fact that it can operate so predictably and still produce is only a testament to Backstrom's ability to create space and thread the needle.

It's 2017, and you still read things like "how was Ovechkin left wide open on the PP? It's Ovechkin!" every so often. Nobody realizes that he was covered well for a minute and a half, until Backstrom baited the high guy into initiating and struck like a cobra. If there weren't already a secondary assist, he'd be a poster boy for the campaign to include one, since nearly every time the score sheet says "PPG A. Ovechkin (J. Carlson, N. Backstrom)" the guy with the secondary assist was the one that made the whole play happen. Green/Carlson/Niskanen's thought process has only ever needed to be refined to "am I passing or shooting," and they barely even need to think about who to pass it to.

Backstrom making the pass straight to Ovechkin is usually more impressive, not less, since the pass usually has to go through one or two people if it's going wing to wing like that. The Capitals' power play has only had you ****ed coming and going because there has been a complementary pair of elite players on it for a decade now. If Backstrom weren't as good as he is, it'd make the decision to put a PK'er on Ovie Island and play 4 on 3 a lot easier, that's for sure.

I think there is a lot of truth to this. Backstrom does play his part and is great at it. But two things - 1) it seems pretty obvious that his production benefits more from Ovy than vice versa. And 2 - if he were really an elite playmaker and producer at THAT level, we would see more production at even strength as well. The disproportionate percentage of points on the power play is pretty clearly an aberration that comes from a specific set of circumstances versus Backstroms ability.

 

[mrv52]

Perhaps but not by that severe a margin. A lot of the margin is because of Ovechkin

So ovechkin is better on the pp than toews, kane, Hossa, keith, etal by a severe margin?

 

[glovesave_35]

1 - I believe even strength scoring to be the best indicator of an individuals offensive ability. Why? Everyone is on roughly even footing there (with some impact from qoc and qot). The power play not only has those elements but also coaching/system impact and role impact (ie. Are you the designated fulcrum of the power play and getting a lot of assists from merely being in a given role).

Toews has had the misfortune (from a power play production perspective) of playing with Kane his whole career and Kane has served that role in the Hawks.

You have not laid out a strong argument at all to support your opinion that ES scoring is the best indicator of an individual's offensive ability. Everyone is on the same footing? How is that any different from the PP? You are talking about a 5 v 5 (or rarely 4 v 4) vs 5 v 4 (or rarely 5 v 3). Teams have PP systems/styles and teams have ES systems/styles.

You say that Toews has the "misfortune" of playing with Kane his whole career while Backstrom has the good fortune to play with Ovechkin. You're either good on the PP or you aren't. Kane is more of an offensive driver/engine than Toews and that is why he is more of a focal point on the PP. It's also why, without bothering to check I am positive that Kane has a significant amount of more PP points than Toews in recent years. Frankly, without Kane it's more likely that Toews has fewer points on the PP than he does playing with such a good offensive player.

2 - In addition the Capitals for most seasons have had a much better PP system than the Hawks. Part of this is Quennevilles system has generally been bad (how else does one explain Kane, Keith, etc all being a part of it but the PP still ranking low most seasons). Part of it is also having a generational shooter delivering a vastly above average number of converted opportunities in Ovechkin. This is not to say Backstrom is a bad playmaker, its clear he is quite good. But stick him on an average team and his production on the PP probably declines 20%+. This is obvious by the high % of total points he earns on the PP. if he were truly so offensively gifted he would be scoring more at even strength but he does not. The power play, namely Ovechkin, is driving his production artificially higher in a sense.

The Caps have had a much better PP system than the Hawks...yet you have more than implied that the Caps' system is "get puck, get puck to OV, OV shoot". While that is too simplistic, I'll go with that and reiterate just how impressive it is that for the last decade everyone in the league has keyed on Ovechkin and played the Caps PP knowing what they want to do. And yet, Ovechkin leads all players in PP goals by a ton over however many years you want to check. And a big part of that is the consistent ability to get Ovechkin the puck when everyone in the building knows he wants it. From the games I have see that is all run through Backstrom.

The thing about putting Backstrom on an average team is...Toews isn't on an average team. I don't know where you get this 20% drop in PP effectiveness from. Reverse the situation and put Toews with Ovechkin. Does OV score as many PP goals? Does Toews even come close to the gaudy PP point numbers that Backstrom has put up over his career?

The bottom line is we will never be able to suss out just how much Ovechkin has helped Backstrom's numbers over the years, or vice versa. And I continue to be vexed at just how ineffective Toews is on the PP. Over that same five and a half season period I used before, Chicago has scored on 245/1335 PP chances (11th league wide). Washington has scored on 291/1316 PP chances (1st). Time and again the combination of Ovechkin/Backstrom has been better than whatever combination of Kane/Toews/Keith/Hossa/Sharp/etc. that Chicago runs out there. That can be somewhat blamed on coaching but that much talent at the end of the day should be able to score goals, period. And while that obviously isn't all on Toews, he is supposed to be this top player in the league. Gotta help the PP more than he does, end of story.

 

[MastuhNinks]

Backstrom's production has been nearly as good as Ovechkin's since 2010-11. They complement each other, if one was carrying the other they wouldn't be so close.

 

[The Gloaming]

Likely true at even strength. I dont buy it on the power play. Highly systematic and entirely based on ovechkins incredible shot.

But have you seen Backstrom do his thing on the right half wall on the PP? The way he draws defenders over to him and dishes it - not many players can create that type of space.

 

[TOGuy14]

There are probably half a dozen threads every season complaining that he is underrated. It is fine, let it go.