The dilemma: win-now, or reload?

[RememberTheRoar]

Even when Keith and Hossa come back, I think the Hawks may need two-three upgrades to before they can defend the Cup. This is of course barring some ridiculous breakout by one or two of the young players:

-1LW
-5/6 D
-3C

You could argue the championship window is slightly narrowing as Hossa gets older, and the franchise can't afford another 2010/11. Also, eventually the team will need to replace Hossa's elite two-way play, and will need to replace other future holes created by the cap.

So here's the dilemma. Do you allow the kids to develop while hanging onto the assets which help restock the prospect pool; or do you send away prospects/picks filling current holes to increase chances of winning a Cup this year?

Bowman and his staff have proven they can go out and find complimentary players through NCAA/international signings, there's really no reason to think that won't continue. So that makes me feel comfortable dealing some prospects and picks.

The idea would be to add to the NHL roster, not take away from it. So I'm talking about parting with first round picks, Nick Schmaltz, possibly even Ville Pokka [unless he can be 5/6 D this season], etc.

Click to read more...

 

[The Toews Era*]

Way too early for this

Dano toews hossa
Panarin anisimov kane
Tikhonov kero tt
Dejs kruger shaw

Keith seabrook
Hjalmarsson tvr
Someone not daley gustafson

Can absolutely contend

 

[Blackhawks]

Even when Keith and Hossa come back, I think the Hawks may need two-three upgrades to before they can defend the Cup. This is of course barring some ridiculous breakout by one or two of the young players:

-1LW
-5/6 D
-3C

You could argue the championship window is slightly narrowing as Hossa gets older, and the franchise can't afford another 2010/11. Also, eventually the team will need to replace Hossa's elite two-way play, and will need to replace other future holes created by the cap.

So here's the dilemma. Do you allow the kids to develop while hanging onto the assets which help restock the prospect pool; or do you send away prospects/picks filling current holes to increase chances of winning a Cup this year?

Bowman and his staff have proven they can go out and find complimentary players through NCAA/international signings, there's really no reason to think that won't continue. So that makes me feel comfortable dealing some prospects and picks.

The idea would be to add to the NHL roster, not take away from it. So I'm talking about parting with first round picks, Nick Schmaltz, possibly even Ville Pokka [unless he can be 5/6 D this season], etc.

Reload on what? Let picks and prospects go for what? This team is not on the decline, it already took a hit for the "reload" that happened in the summer and its now on the rise once again as time goes on, reload usually means getting rid of assets/veterans and going with young/cheap players in their place, hence Sharp, Saad, Richards, Vermette, Steeger, Oduya, Bickell(A) replaced by Anisimov, Panarin, Garbutt, Svedberg, Daley, Gustaffson, TVR, Dano, Kero. There is not much reloading left to do since you cant really tinker with this roster that much because of important core players and cap constraints. Unless you are talking about getting rid of Crawford or Bickell(unmoveable) or ? There is 4 rookies in the O and 3 on the D, I think that is the definition of reloading.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

Reload on what? Let picks and prospects go for what? This team is not on the decline, it already took a hit for the "reload" that happened in the summer and its now on the rise once again as time goes on, reload usually means getting rid of assets/veterans and going with young/cheap players in their place, hence Sharp, Saad, Richards, Vermette, Steeger, Oduya, Bickell(A) replaced by Anisimov, Panarin, Svedberg, Daley, Gustaffson, TVR, Dano, Kero. There is not much reloading left to do since you cant really tinker with this roster that much because of important core players and cap constraints. Unless you are talking about getting rid of Crawford or Bickell(unmoveable) or ? There is 4 rookies in the O and 3 on the D, I think that is the definition of reloading.

Sorry. I couldn't think of a good title for this, and obviously settled on something bad. I believe this team can contend; however, should they use pieces not currently in the NHL to improve the main roster?

 

[CallMeShaft]

We have a hole on 1LW, sure. But we were able to win with a hole in 2C.

Kero has done a decent job as 3C, and if need be, we can return to having Shaw in that role again.

We also have plenty in terms of defensemen. Keith, Seabrook, Hammer, TVR, Svedberg, and Daley are all just fine. Sure, Svedberg is inexperienced and Daley leaves a lot to be desired defensively, but our defense (with a healthy Keith) is better than what we had last year. And let's not forget that Gustafsson has done well in the limited games he's played so far.

Our holes aren't any bigger than any other year.

 

[Zero Pucks Given]

Win now. (of course the 50% of me that's pro Kings will be irked, but whatever)

 

[Salvaged Ship]

40% of our roster is new. We have played what, 5 or 6 rookies so far? We have already reloaded, thats what this roster is.

 

[IU Hawks fan]

Win now. (of course the 50% of me that's pro Kings will be irked, but whatever)

How can you be a Hawks & Kings fan? It just doesn't add up.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

40% of our roster is new. We have played what, 5 or 6 rookies so far? We have already reloaded, thats what this roster is.

Again, sorry for the piss poor title. I don't know how to change it, maybe one of the mods can help?

Did you read the OP though? I think it's explained there what I'm actually getting at.

 

[BK]

Even when Keith and Hossa come back, I think the Hawks may need two-three upgrades to before they can defend the Cup. This is of course barring some ridiculous breakout by one or two of the young players:

-1LW
-5/6 D
-3C

You could argue the championship window is slightly narrowing as Hossa gets older, and the franchise can't afford another 2010/11. Also, eventually the team will need to replace Hossa's elite two-way play, and will need to replace other future holes created by the cap.

So here's the dilemma. Do you allow the kids to develop while hanging onto the assets which help restock the prospect pool; or do you send away prospects/picks filling current holes to increase chances of winning a Cup this year?

Bowman and his staff have proven they can go out and find complimentary players through NCAA/international signings, there's really no reason to think that won't continue. So that makes me feel comfortable dealing some prospects and picks.

The idea would be to add to the NHL roster, not take away from it. So I'm talking about parting with first round picks, Nick Schmaltz, possibly even Ville Pokka [unless he can be 5/6 D this season], etc.

This franchise can afford another 10/11. You talk about it like the fan base would but while they would complain they would go no where. Are you new or something?

While Hossa is getting older he is still a really good, two-way player. I suspect we have 1-2 more years of this. In that time TT, Dano, Panarin should all make strides and replace his production as well as Saad. The cap should go up so if we must spend we can and Bickell will be off the books in 2 years.

Are we struggling now? Yes but we are missing Hossa and Keith. Once they are back we need to turn it on but our line up looks pretty darn good with them healthy.

 

[Taze em]

I've been a prospect guy on this website for awhile. I love prospect rankings, I dream on prospects. I think they are really important.

...Unless you are the Hawks right now.

We are like a Ponzi scheme in its heyday. We will continue to have the pick of college UDFA and foreign players moving to the NHL... unless we take a step back in our contention.

Basically I want the Hawks to trade their own prospects for NHL help or picks, and fill the prospect pool with free talent (Panarin, TVR, Kero, Darling, Baun), the odd draft pick(Shaw, Kruger), and trade acquisitions (Dano, Pokka).

The free talent is jumping our prospects anyways. Now next year there is another good batch of Russians headlined by Zaitsev, there is UDFA like Stecher, Caggiula, Ortega. I mean... there is a never ending march of free talent that want to be with the Hawks... that is true until the HAwks stop being the Hawks. So do all you can to keep that NHL team great and the free players will flow.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

This franchise can afford another 10/11. You talk about it like the fan base would but while they would complain they would go no where. Are you new or something?

While Hossa is getting older he is still a really good, two-way player. I suspect we have 1-2 more years of this. In that time TT, Dano, Panarin should all make strides and replace his production as well as Saad. The cap should go up so if we must spend we can and Bickell will be off the books in 2 years.

Are we struggling now? Yes but we are missing Hossa and Keith. Once they are back we need to turn it on but our line up looks pretty darn good with them healthy.

I think Taze em gets the point I was trying to make. Thanks for insulting me as a life-long Hawks fan though, then going on to reinforce my point that Hossa has 1-2 great years left.

Winning another Cup will be harder without Hossa, so why not do everything they can to win while he's still with the team and playing at a high level?

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Why not both?

 

[BK]

I think Taze em gets the point I was trying to make. Thanks for insulting me as a life-long Hawks fan though, then going on to reinforce my point that Hossa has 1-2 great years left.

Winning another Cup will be harder without Hossa, so why not do everything they can to win while he's still with the team and playing at a high level?

If you were a life long fan you would know the team could afford another another 10/11 (not saying you aren't but come on). The second part of what i wrote has nothing to do with the first part. When you make claims like "the franchise can't afford another 2010/11" you should expect to get a response like you got because it is just not true.

The second part of what I wrote lays out what appears to be the Hawks plan and yes I agree we will have to replace Hossa but saying that is obvious because someday we will have to replace everyone. We don't need to sell the farm to replace him when we can replace his production from within with TT, Dano, Panarin. As the years have gone on we have needed less superstar Hossa and more consistent/solid two-way player Hossa. If you look at the 2 forwards we lost and the point production loss from Hossa I think we have already replaced them. Sharp replaced by Panarin (actually might turn out to be a production increase), Dano will hopefully replace Saad, and TT should continue to increase production.

 

[RememberTheRoar]

If you were a life long fan you would know the team could afford another another 10/11 (not saying you aren't but come on). The second part of what i wrote has nothing to do with the first part. When you make claims like "the franchise can't afford another 2010/11" you should expect to get a response like you got because it is just not true.

The second part of what I wrote lays out what appears to be the Hawks plan and yes I agree we will have to replace Hossa but saying that is obvious because someday we will have to replace everyone. We don't need to sell the farm to replace him when we can replace his production from within with TT, Dano, Panarin. As the years have gone on we have needed less superstar Hossa and more consistent/solid two-way player Hossa. If you look at the 2 forwards we lost and the point production loss from Hossa I think we have already replaced them. Sharp replaced by Panarin (actually might turn out to be a production increase), Dano will hopefully replace Saad, and TT should continue to increase production.

Look man, the intention of my original post was to establish both sides of the argument and create a place for people to discuss. I shouldn't have included pieces of opinion in saying upgrades are probably needed, and I feel comfortable dealing non-NHL roster pieces.

I DID NOT absolutely say the franchise cannot afford another 10/11. I said, "You could argue..." in order to drive that side of a potential debate. Some people are okay with hoping the younger guys grow enough to win this year, some are not.

The goal of this thread is to discuss whether they should "sell the farm" in order to win this year. So the second part of your last post is a perfect example of what I was hoping for.

Again, I really blew it when it came to creating a title [anyone know how to change it?] and it's clearly throwing people off. Yes, I'm new to posting on this site, however I've always enjoyed reading the threads where people on both sides of an argument have a rational discussion. That is my hope with this thread.

 

[BK]

Look man, the intention of my original post was to establish both sides of the argument and create a place for people to discuss. I shouldn't have included pieces of opinion in saying upgrades are probably needed, and I feel comfortable dealing non-NHL roster pieces.

I DID NOT absolutely say the franchise cannot afford another 10/11. I said, "You could argue..." in order to drive that side of a potential debate. Some people are okay with hoping the younger guys grow enough to win this year, some are not.

The goal of this thread is to discuss whether they should "sell the farm" in order to win this year. So the second part of your last post is a perfect example of what I was hoping for.

Again, I really blew it when it came to creating a title [anyone know how to change it?] and it's clearly throwing people off. Yes, I'm new to posting on this site, however I've always enjoyed reading the threads where people on both sides of an argument have a rational discussion. That is my hope with this thread.

That is fine but you couldn't really argue that.

In regards to selling the farm, we can't really do that because of the salary cap (unless Toews or Kane get hurt). If the pre-cap era you could but with how tight the cap is. The new NHL is getting stars then surrounding them with talent and are on ELC deals or cheaper deals.

 

[Pepe Silvia]

The goal of this thread is to discuss whether they should "sell the farm" in order to win this year.

And the answer to that is hell no. The Hawks are still in a position to compete for a long time. They're not going to move top prospects like TT, Dano, Pokka, Schmaltz that will be cost controlled and have top 6/top 4 talent.

If they can somehow get the cap space before the deadline, I can see them trying to make a trade similar to the Vermette one, with the hope that the 1st will be very late anyway.

Or I can definitely see them making other depth trades that involve prospects like McNeill or 2nd/3rd round picks.

 

[EmeticDonut]

How can you be a Hawks & Kings fan? It just doesn't add up.

Hedging their bets.

 

[Enyaw]

This is the transition/rebuild year

 

[x Tame Impala]

No thank you to being the Rangers or Penguins, and going forward being anything like the Kings.

Prospects are important. Cheap, young, recyclable talent will be this team's saving grace. I think last year was the closest we'll ever get to going "all in"

 

[JLarucci23]

We need to tank and get Matthews.

 

[Taze em]

No thank you to being the Rangers or Penguins, and going forward being anything like the Kings.

Prospects are important. Cheap, young, recyclable talent will be this team's saving grace. I think last year was the closest we'll ever get to going "all in"

In 2 years we'll need 2 top 6 forwards... And not just regular top 6ers, really really good ones. Graham Knott and Nick Schmaltz aren't going to cut it.

Prospects have been this teams saving grace but unless some guys make big huge leaps there is a talent gap coming in 2-3 years.

 

[BobbyJet]

This is the transition/rebuild year

It is, but don't try telling K/T, the rest of the core group, Q or Stan that Hawks aren't one of the favorites to win the SC.

 

[hawksrule]

In 2 years we'll need 2 top 6 forwards... And not just regular top 6ers, really really good ones. Graham Knott and Nick Schmaltz aren't going to cut it.

Prospects have been this teams saving grace but unless some guys make big huge leaps there is a talent gap coming in 2-3 years.

Yeah, I'm not a prospects guy, but based on what other people say the offensive cupboards seem rather barren.

 

[x Tame Impala]

In 2 years we'll need 2 top 6 forwards... And not just regular top 6ers, really really good ones. Graham Knott and Nick Schmaltz aren't going to cut it.

Prospects have been this teams saving grace but unless some guys make big huge leaps there is a talent gap coming in 2-3 years.

Top 6 forwards? Where?

Panarin-Toews-Dano
TT-AA-Kane

Should be just fine