Amanda Shires - To the Sunset |
Bob Dylan - Blood on the Tracks |
Bob Dylan - Bringing It All Back Home |
Bob Dylan - Desire |
Brandi Carlile - By the Way, I Forgive You |
Brandi Carlile - The Fire Watchers Daughter |
Crosby, Stills & Nash - Crosby, Stills & Nash |
Dawes - All Your Favourite Bands |
Jackson Browne - Running on Empty |
Jason Isbell - Reunions |
Jason Isbell - Something More than Free |
Jason Isbell - Southeastern |
Led Zeppelin - Led Zeppelin IV |
Marillion - Misplaced Childhood |
Neil Young - Weld |
Pink Floyd - Animals |
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon |
Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here |
Richard Thompson - Dream Attic |
Richard Thompson - Mirror Blue |
Richard Thompson - Rumour and Sigh |
Richard Thompson - Sweet Warrior |
The Band - The Band (The Brown Album) |
The Doors-L.A. Woman |
Warren Zevon - Excitable Boy |
Thanks for all your great posts. I've been working on this for months and I finally have a list of which I can be proud.
Definitely strikes me as unfair to frame it that way, or treat it as questionable, and I would defend his sentiment, personally.So, you weren't proud of your tastes before, but now that you've worked on them, you're proud? Because they align with who's?
Definitely strikes me as unfair to frame that as questionable and I would defend his sentiment, personally.
Tastes develop with exposure, and awareness/familiarity with other perspectives definitely fast-tracks that process, IMO. I'm definitely more proud of my tastes after combing through stuff that other people like, and I definitely wasn't proud of my un-influenced tastes right from the very start, nor do I think I should have been. Impressionability from others is a really useful tool for figuring out what you personally like.
That doesn't at all imply congratulating yourself as respectable simply because your preferences closer aligns with broad reputation or something.
On top of that, he might have just meant that seeing other lists simply jogged his memory when making his own.
I disagree that this necessarily HAS to be the case. Sometimes a different perspective is just the nudge you need to broaden what you're open to, and that you might later realize that you actually do like yourself. I mean, maybe your ability to naturally develop your tastes without any outside help is so impeccable that you can't relate to this or something, but personally, I've found the process very useful.Teenagers define themselves through what they like (and can't stand people criticizing their tastes). At some point, you have to realize that your tastes are a result of your experiences (both of life and of the medium - here music). Not something you "work on", nor something you should be proud of. If you love music, you listen to music, and your tastes evolve. Your tastes. When you say "impressionability is a useful tool", I can't see it - knowing knowledgeable people is a useful "tool", to be introduced to more complex, or more rare stuff, but being impressed by their knowledge will certainly not help you figure out what "you personally like".
That's how you develop an inferiority complex that makes you go beserk when people criticize your tastes (and yeah, the superiority complex of the impressionable intelligentsia is just an inferiority complex in disguise).
maybe your ability to naturally develop your tastes without any outside help is so impeccable
This is my own list and even I feel that it kind of sucks, because the most satisfying things I've experienced still feel kind of underwhelming/unimportant to myself."
In my view, a lot of good things are not immediate or easy to grasp, and require adjustments in attitude and perspective to appreciate, warm up to, and open up to. Any number of ways of reframing the experience can help someone connect with them more easily, and these often come from other people. What makes that irreconcilable? You can be keen enough to notice something yourself, or you can have it brought to your attention, after which you either will or won't notice it yourself (either way, being forced to consider what's relevant can fast-track how quickly you figure that out). Both are valid experiences that ultimately end up still being your own.I don't think I have a particular gift. I think it's an irreconcilable contradiction to think someone's personal tastes need outside help.
How can this happen if you're not comparing your "tastes" to something else that you feel is "better" (and more "impressive")? Either you don't like music and don't bother making a list, or your tastes are your tastes - if you feel the need to be proud of your tastes, they might just not really be your tastes at all.
Boy, I completely disagree with this notion and find it to be a wildly unfair and dismissive assumption.
In my view, a lot of good things are not immediate or easy to grasp, and require adjustments in attitude and perspective to appreciate, warm up to, and open up to. Any number of ways of reframing the experience can help someone connect with them more easily, and these often come from other people. What makes that irreconcilable? You can be keen enough to notice something yourself, or you can have it brought to your attention, after which you either will or won't notice it yourself (either way, being forced to consider what's relevant can fast-track how quickly you figure that out). Both are valid experiences that ultimately end up still being your own.
For example, when I was younger and only had the attention span to listen to crappy top 40 pop music, I was still able to imagine the possibility of a song hypothetically sounding perfect in a similar way to how I now find something like Ceremony by Joy Division ("it's how I always wanted music to sound" is how I describe it now). I might have still modestly enjoyed the stuff I listened to in a "this is simultaneously catchy yet grating" way that I didn't genuinely value all that much, and might still possibly list off my favorite songs off the top of my head, but it wouldn't have been a list that I'd been proud of, because I never actually cared about the songs that were most enjoyable to me at the time. Ideally, I would want a list of my favorite songs to include things that actually inspire me, that I have zero reservations about, and that I would actively feel passionate about sharing with everyone. I can acknowledge that the best I can do at the moment may or may not satisfy that.
Even now, I'm relatively proud of what I would put as my favorite albums and I like them a lot, but I can still imagine and feel somewhat unsatisfied by the fact that I will always have some reservations about them. For example, I'm not aware of an album existing where every track is an actual masterpiece, in my eyes. If I find something like that at some point in the future, I might be more proud of a list that includes it at that point (again, not because it would give me more credibility or be more impressive to other people, but simply because I'd be really happy/fortunate about finding something that meets that standard). It's all relative.
Edit: Oh wait, I see the disconnect now. I mostly just mean impressionable as in leave an impression/piquing someone's interest/being swept up by their enthusiasm, or at worst mirror their approach/try looking at it from their perspective and see if something sticks, not thoughtlessly mirroring someone's opinions outright. Using the former as a catalyst can be very useful (though not strictly necessary), is my point.You're only trying to say that someone's tastes can evolve through contact with someone with a larger knowledge or better understanding of the medium (and up 'til there I agree 100%) while trying justifying that (IMO absolutely wrong) idea that someone should be appreciative of the "help" that was brought to their tastes. Only a wannabe elitist could feel that way: "Even though what I like are these shameful things, what I really want to like is the stuff you like, oh master of fine arts". When your tastes are shitty, you normally don't realize it, and you're perfectly fine with them - until your (life/musical) experience grows, and your tastes evolve. Through time, not through imitation.
The purpose of those examples were to address this: "How can this happen if you're not comparing your "tastes" to something else that you feel is "better" (and more "impressive")?" not to tie it back to the idea of "outside help" (I addressed that separately). My answer to this question is that you can compare your tastes to your own loftier ideal outcomes rather than some notion of another person's "better" experiences, and justifiably feel proud/not proud base on the former comparison instead (if by proud, you just mean proud of the fact that you were able to find and credit something so satisfying to yourself, not that you feel superior for being associated with it).This shared experience feels a lot like after the fact revisionism, but okay. I still fail to see where the outside help is coming from in here. So you're looking for an album with only perfect tracks, is that a quest you were set on by someone else? Or because someone else found that perfect album and you haven't? You seem like someone who's relatively proud of your tastes for sure. Maybe at some point you were shamed for your love for the Backstreet Boys and decided to force yourself out of these degrading preferences, but I really doubt that at any point before that trauma, you thought to yourself "You know what? What I like is not what I should like, I should have a little more pride and listen to experimental music more".
Edit: Oh wait, I see the disconnect now. I mostly just mean impressionable as in leave an impression/piquing someone's interest/being swept up by their enthusiasm, or at worst mirror their approach/try looking at it from their perspective and see if something sticks, not thoughtlessly mirroring someone's opinions outright. Using the former as a catalyst can be very useful (though not strictly necessary), is my point.
The purpose of those examples were to address this: "How can this happen if you're not comparing your "tastes" to something else that you feel is "better" (and more "impressive")?" not to tie it back to the idea of "outside help" (I addressed that separately). My answer to this question is that you can compare your tastes to your own loftier ideal outcomes rather than some notion of another person's "better" experiences, and justifiably feel proud/not proud base on the former comparison instead (if by proud, you just mean proud of the fact that you were able to find and credit something so satisfying to yourself, not that you feel superior for being associated with it).
It isn't revisionism. My initial interest in/satisfaction from music was very low, and as I warmed up to more stuff, I gradually found higher and higher peaks that MADE me more interested in/satisfied by the medium as a whole, like a staircase. Basically, what I'm saying is: "What I initially liked most had a low ceiling, so I'd naturally be proud to potentially raise that ceiling, and I would appreciate any help that would increase the odds of that happening. That will always be true, even if the ceiling continues to rise, as long there's still some room for improvement/dissatisfaction, which there always will be (and that there is for me currently)." It would be perfectly defensible and makes perfect sense if Bogart meant it that way too.
The crux of your argument seems to assume that one will be 100% interested in and satisfied by their current tastes (simply because it's their current taste), and therefore, them treating other tastes as helpful/could expose them to greater heights suggests that they're ashamed/in denial about how much they actually like their current tastes. However, that assumption isn't true. The scenario in the paragraph above is one where the interest/satisfaction they get from their current tastes might not be 100%, so there can be potentially good reason for them to be "ashamed" (I would just say "unsatisfied" instead) of their current tastes to some degree without being in denial about it (since there is in fact room to go up and room for dissatisfaction).
Your tastes are your tastes, but they're also the outcome of the actions/attitudes you took to develop them. Organically warming up to something over time (without a say in whether you do or don't) is part of the process, but you still have to decide to listen to them in the first place. Why couldn't you be proud of something as simple as how you positioned yourself for the rewards to get to where they are, or just the fact that you actually listened to other perspectives and considered them? Why would that be pretentious? If you found stuff that you're personally really happy with, you did a good job, at least in some personal sense, no? It doesn't have to be an ego thing.I'm not saying one should be "satisfied with their current tastes", on the contrary, I'm saying there's nothing to be proud of, or satisfied with, about your tastes. Being satisfied with my current tastes would mean not looking to discover anything new, and believe me, I read pretty much everything you write about music, because I have respect for your knowledge of the medium (even though I rarely agree with your tastes in the end!). Just like I read most of kihei's film reviews, because I have respect for his rigor as a cinéphile. My tastes are still my tastes, and I feel they're pretty "good" (you know, they're my tastes).
Transpose this listing thing on something else. X makes a list of his favorite meals, but afterwards scraps it, takes a few months to dine out, and redo that list in order to be now proud of it. Having fun making the list up and going out of your way to discover new meals to maybe add to it? Great! Being proud of your new acquired tastes? That just sounds wannabe-pretentious to me, but maybe there is a disconnect in language (English ain't my first language, so might compromise my understanding of what is meant).
Do you have a tracklisting for the Bob Marley album?I am going to make my list to start and probably edit later
Teir 1
I consider these objectively pretty much perfect albums, and they also happen to be some of my favorites
Illmatic- Nas
Back to Black- Amy Winehouse
Nirvana Unplugged
Rumours- Fleetwood Mac
Revolver- The Beatles
Tier 2
my comfort albums, maybe not acclaimed as some, but I love them
Coexist- The xx (hence the avatar)
Dead and Born and Grown- The Staves
The Head and the Heart- self titled debut
A random Bob Marley demo compilation I found in a used record store that was released in the Netherlands by some random label
Tier 3
Just a bunch of other albums I like
Is This It?- The Strokes
Funeral-Arcade Fire
Grace-Jeff Buckley
Toxicity-System of a Down
Abbey Road- The Beatles
Pink Moon- Nick Drake
Meat is Murder- The Smiths
Electric Ladyland- Jimi Hendrix
Viva La Vida- Coldplay
40 oz to Freedom- Sublime
Ziggy Stardust- Bowie
Good News for People Who Love Bad News- Modest Mouse
A Toothpaste Suburb- Milo (discovered this on HF entertainment like 10 years ago, for sure most random on this list)
Okay leaving a few spaces for now
Bob Marley - Put It OnDo you have a tracklisting for the Bob Marley album?
Welp, lets see:
(one per artist)
Bob Dylan - Bring It All Back Home (1965)
The Kinks - The Kinks are the Village Green Preservation Society (1968)
The Band - The Band (1969)
Stooges - Fun House (1970)
Stevie Wonder - Talking Book (1972)
Can - Future Days (1973)
Neil Young - Rust Never Sleeps (1979)
Dead Kennedys - Plastic Surgery Disasters (1982)
Discharge - Hear Nothing See Nothing Say Nothing (1982)
Mission of Burma - Vs. (1982)
Talking Heads - The Name of This Band Is Talking Heads (1982)
Minutemen - Double Nickels on the Dime (1984)
The Replacements - Tim (1985)
Leevi and the Leavings - Häntä koipien välissä (1988)
Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation (1988)
Aphex Twin - Selected Ambient Works Volume II (1994)
Drive Like Jehu - Yank Crime (1994)
Organized Konfusion - Stress: The Extinction Agenda (1994)
OutKast - Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik (1994)
Massive Attack - Mezzanine (1998)
Deftones - White Pony (2000)
The Horrors - The Horrors (2000)
Unwound - Leaves Turn Inside You (2001)
Life Without Buildings - Live at the Annandale Hotel (2007)
Chuck Person’s Eccojams Vol. 1 (2010)
Aaand some honorable mentions: Beggars Banquet (1968), In a Silent Way (1969), Master of Reality (1971), The B-52’s (1979), Blowout Comb (1994)
Looking at the list makes me feel kinda conflicted; I feel there should be more older and more recent stuff. Oh well, will probably never be fully content putting lists of this nature.