News Article: The Culture is Broken

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Quality culture loss again tonight.

 

[MaxR11]

The team essentially had a major downgrade in talent when they lost a star player in Tavares. Thats a huge hole that was never close to being filled.
Bring in a strong coach with a solid system and get 100% buy in from the players and its a much better team than last season.
They are now a top 10 NHL team despite having less talent than the season before.

yup, remenda just saying the isles this year don't change the way they play regardless of score and the time of the game. that is buy in, habits and culture. stick-with-it-ness. don't sag. keep working hard. play predictable and steady and hard in front of your tender and keep the puck out... make him look good. value keeping the puck out of your net as much if nor more so than scoring on the other net. offensive chance and opportunities will come if you take care of your own end.

really how much more talented are the isles than the oilers? not much i'd say.

on the positive it shows how quick you can turn it around if you renew the culture. at least compete for a playoff spot next year. slowly add talent smartly and the team can be great in several years. it can be done.

 

[Mr Tadakichi]

really how much more talented are the isles than the oilers? not much i'd say.

Other than having better wingers, depth, defencemen, goaltending, coaching, ownership, management, and burgers, I agree with you.

 

[MaxR11]

Other than having better wingers, depth, defencemen, goaltending, coaching, ownership, management, and burgers, I agree with you.

well ya they now have much better coaching and management with trotz and lammy and that's the main thing that changed them from a blah team to a top team. it's the culture that trotz and lammy installed this summer. they have a technically less talented roster this year than last. ebs is producing way less than last year. really scrubby tenders yet now they're way better than last year.

if you get buy in and proper culture and habits entrenched players are going to look better than they do under a worse culture. the isle have a pretty scrubby team made to look better than they are with buy in.

 

[Mr Tadakichi]

well ya they now have much better coaching and management with trotz and lammy and that's the main thing that changed them from a blah team to a top team. it's the culture that trotz and lammy installed this summer. they have a technically less talented roster this year than last. ebs is producing way less than last year. really scrubby tenders yet now they're way better than last year.

if you get buy in and proper culture and habits entrenched players are going to look better than they do under a worse culture. the isle have a pretty scrubby team made to look better than they are with buy in.

I agree with that to some extent. I am not sure about them being about as talented. We may have the players at center to match, but we don't have a Lee or Eberle on the wings. Could also use a D like Pulock as well.

I think a lot of these players are playing well above their heads at times.

 

[Soundwave]

That "play like the Islanders" bull shit won't work here. It requires for starters zero pressure or expectation, which the Oilers don't get the benefit of being in a hockey crazy market with McDavid on it.

It also requires a very specific type of coach and there's may be two or three of those guys in the entire NHL. It also requires generally your core players to be older. Barzal is young but the next 3 leading scorers are Lee, Bailey, and Nelson and all are 27 or older.

Secondly our objective shouldn't be to be the freaking Islanders. For all we know next year they could be back in the gutter. The objective should be to build an actual good team, not some "culture team" that scrapes by on the sun constantly shining on its ass and can prone to collapsing back into the gutter any season because they don't have talent.

 

[guymez]

I agree with that to some extent. I am not sure about them being about as talented. We may have the players at center to match, but we don't have a Lee or Eberle on the wings. Could also use a D like Pulock as well.

I think a lot of these players are playing well above their heads at times.

The Islanders aren't even close to matching the Oilers centre depth. Its the wing where they have much better depth.

 

[frag2]

That "play like the Islanders" bull **** won't work here. It requires for starters zero pressure or expectation, which the Oilers don't get the benefit of being in a hockey crazy market with McDavid on it.

It also requires a very specific type of coach and there's may be two or three of those guys in the entire NHL. It also requires generally your core players to be older. Barzal is young but the next 3 leading scorers are Lee, Bailey, and Nelson and all are 27 or older.

Secondly our objective shouldn't be to be the freaking Islanders. For all we know next year they could be back in the gutter. The objective should be to build an actual good team, not some "culture team" that scrapes by on the sun constantly shining on its ass and can prone to collapsing back into the gutter any season because they don't have talent.

This. You can have a bajillion scrubs that work hard and McDavid and Draisaitl but at the end of the day, they are just scrubs.

Can't win when you dont have talent.

But hey culture culture

 

[Soundwave]

This. You can have a bajillion scrubs that work hard and McDavid and Draisaitl but at the end of the day, they are just scrubs.

Can't win when you dont have talent.

But hey culture culture

You can maybe make a low-talent team work in the NHL for a season or two but it requires basically zero expectation, that then gives the coach full authority. And then the coach has to have a very, very specific system and there are very few coaches out there who can get a lot out of nothing. Coach has to have exceptional high hockey I.Q. and understanding of the modern NHL, it can't just be an issue of "buy in".

And even then, you're really not a real contender, you're a joke pretender that will get exposed later than sooner, that's all.

The Oilers goal should not be to emulate what the Islanders are.

 

[BlackDogg]

Katzenscheibe culture

 

[McShogun99]

This. You can have a bajillion scrubs that work hard and McDavid and Draisaitl but at the end of the day, they are just scrubs.

Can't win when you dont have talent.

But hey culture culture

Do you remember the late 90's, early 2000's Oilers. The team had virtually no talent and one of the lowest payrolls in the league. We were like a farm team for the rest of the league. Yet these low payed, unskilled players came to work every night and gave 100%. We didn't make the playoffs every year but we were always close. I'd take that any day over the group of "to skilled to work hard" players we've had the past 9 years. You take a group of hard working players that follow the system and add that to Mcdavid, Draisaitl and RNH and we're a playoff team every year.

 

[Drivesaitl]

On the 3 game roadtrip;

Drai 3 goals

Nuge 1 goal

Culture zero goals.

The several players brought into this lineup, looking at Lucic, Kassian, Rieder, Brodziak, Cash, Puljujarvi, Malone had zero goals and rarely ever score. That's not a small segment. That's most of our forwards that rarely ever score and several that don't have a goal all year.

In Money Ball parlance these are guys that "don't get on base" They're non starters. They're particularly inept in the the respect that almost all of them get time with real quality players in McDrai and Nuge and yet have production stats that are shockingly bad. They aren't good at GA either albeit argument could be made for Rieder and Kassian who are good on pk and at least not hurting us.

But you have to look at how most of these players could be so inept in minutes with some of the best players in hockey. Look at what even Patrick Maroon was able to do with the same assignment.

Even when we shut it down, do what coach is asking, and we played the whole roadtrip that way giving up 2 GA/game in money time, we didn't have the talent and run support to match even 2 goal against games. We were in 3 games that were 2-1 heading down the stretch and losing those types of games everytime. Playing road games.

Why did we lose all 3? Because opponents had more players that could finish than we did. Simple as that.

So the team on the ice followed through for 3 games in a row and got zero pts out of it. THAT is what breaks spirit, that the lineup just isn't good enough and most of it is junk.

 

[frag2]

Do you remember the late 90's, early 2000's Oilers. The team had virtually no talent and one of the lowest payrolls in the league. We were like a farm team for the rest of the league. Yet these low payed, unskilled players came to work every night and gave 100%. We didn't make the playoffs every year but we were always close. I'd take that any day over the group of "to skilled to work hard" players we've had the past 9 years. You take a group of hard working players that follow the system and add that to Mcdavid, Draisaitl and RNH and we're a playoff team every year.

No question. Burke and Stauffer said a few weeks ago our scrubs are the ones that aren't following the system. Whether the 'system' Hitch deploys is the correct one or not is another issue but at the end of the day, it's a personnel issue through and through.

I just find it strange how there's all this misdirected blame towards McDavid and Draisaitl when they are the least of the team's concerns IMO. Could they be better? Absolutely but nobody is perfect

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Why did we lose all 3? Because opponents had more players that could finish than we did. Simple as that.

That and average at best goaltending have screwed us badly the last 2 seasons. You know that when a team had a tough time scoring that it puts extra pressure on your goalies because they feel like if they let in more than a goal they likely lose the game.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

No question. Burke and Stauffer said a few weeks ago our scrubs are the ones that aren't following the system. Whether the 'system' Hitch deploys is the correct one or not is another issue but at the end of the day, it's a personnel issue through and through.

I just find it strange how there's all this misdirected blame towards McDavid and Draisaitl when they are the least of the team's concerns IMO. Could they be better? Absolutely but nobody is perfect

Then why aren't they being waived or sat in the PB?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Do you remember the late 90's, early 2000's Oilers. The team had virtually no talent and one of the lowest payrolls in the league. We were like a farm team for the rest of the league. Yet these low payed, unskilled players came to work every night and gave 100%. We didn't make the playoffs every year but we were always close. I'd take that any day over the group of "to skilled to work hard" players we've had the past 9 years. You take a group of hard working players that follow the system and add that to Mcdavid, Draisaitl and RNH and we're a playoff team every year.

Do you remember that team? No talent? Are you kidding?

Weight, Guerin, Smyth, Arnott Kovalenko, Czerkawski, Satan no talent?

With a supporting cast of guys that could produce like Grier, Marchant, Bucky, McCammond, Mironov.

The 97 Oilers club had 12 players on it that exceeded a 30pt pace. That was a club good enough to roll lines and quality throughout the lineup and even in the guys with little finish like Rem Murray, they were solid players.

But heres an Irony contained in that lineup. The Oilers had drafted Steve Kelly he has 1 pt, INSTEAD of drafting the obvious Shane Doan. That was the most notable time the Oilers went insane looking at some strange variable other than how a player could obviously help us. If we Draft Shane Doan who knows how far that club could've gone before they broke it up.

 

[RandomGuy79]

Then why aren't they being waived or sat in the PB?

Because you can't have 15 guys in the pressbox.

 

[Drivesaitl]

That and average at best goaltending have screwed us badly the last 2 seasons. You know that when a team had a tough time scoring that it puts extra pressure on your goalies because they feel like if they let in more than a goal they likely lose the game.

Lack of run support, and knowing there won't be any, is what puts pressure on goalies.

This season and last, there are far too many games where the Oilers score 2 or less goals. Even the LA KIngs, who were built to win those games weren't winning those in the changed era in NHL hockey where now more goals are being scored by faster and more talented lineups.

We went the wrong way. Chiarelli rid the team of talent. We have 3 talented forwards left. That's it.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Then why aren't they being waived or sat in the PB?

Who would replace them in the lineup?

Any coach here can't even fill up a line up card. After a dozen players its slim and shady picking.

Even with a healthy roster, with no injuries, we don't have 14 legit NHL players.

 

[frag2]

Then why aren't they being waived or sat in the PB?

Because you can't have 15 guys in the pressbox.

Pretty much. We have no talent. It's such a shitty situation Chia put this team in. Dont have the personnel to play in the new NHL where speed and skill are key; don't have cap space to make these moves to fix the personnel; and we have a coach that seemingly doesn't know what he's doing with our personnel.

In hindsight, maybe TMac shouldn't have been fired. Granted I do suspect part of how he coached tried to get himself fired but that's more directed towards Chia who shit the bed. Worst GM in the history of all hockey.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Who would replace them in the lineup?

Any coach here can't even fill up a line up card. After a dozen players its slim and shady picking.

Even with a healthy roster, with no injuries, we don't have 14 legit NHL players.

Well I'd give guys like Russell, Gambardella, Malone (he's up) and Currie chances up front for starters. Not that they are game breakers, but they likely give you a honest effort anyway.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Well I'd give guys like Russell, Gambardella, Malone (he's up) and Currie chances up front for starters. Not that they are game breakers, but they likely give you a honest effort anyway.

Sure, but every player needs work, development, sheltering. This org does a poor job detecting which players those are, which they are committed too, and who they lose faith in.

For instance this year its Caggiulia, who we spent years developing.

Theres very few players in the lineup here who are developed from within and the org tried to turn into players. Khaira is the only current forward I can think of but I suspect the org will tire of him as well.

The trouble with this org is it give chances to players like Pak, Slepy, for awhile and then just gets rid of them before they find their legs. Not saying those were any answers either, just that the org doesn't pick and stick with players. Theres constant turnover here and lets try these other players instead. Even when we do that we get rid of Aberg, Zykov, etc before they are even given a chance. I'm surprised Rattie is here, and I still think he's a worthwhile project.

 

[McShogun99]

Do you remember that team? No talent? Are you kidding?

Weight, Guerin, Smyth, Arnott Kovalenko, Czerkawski, Satan no talent?

With a supporting cast of guys that could produce like Grier, Marchant, Bucky, McCammond, Mironov.

The 97 Oilers club had 12 players on it that exceeded a 30pt pace. That was a club good enough to roll lines and quality throughout the lineup and even in the guys with little finish like Rem Murray, they were solid players.

But heres an Irony contained in that lineup. The Oilers had drafted Steve Kelly he has 1 pt, INSTEAD of drafting the obvious Shane Doan. That was the most notable time the Oilers went insane looking at some strange variable other than how a player could obviously help us. If we Draft Shane Doan who knows how far that club could've gone before they broke it up.

Weight and Smyth were great for us but Smyth's game didn't really pick up until a few season into his career. Most of the other guys you mentioned only played a few seasons for us then went to other teams for more money. The supporting cast we had was excellent, blue collar players which is what we're missing today. Even players like Weight don't compare to Mcdavid and the rest of them don't compare to Draisaitl.

Now put that old Oilers supporting cast with Mcdavid, Draisaitl and RNH and tell me we're not a playoff team. Those were guys that worked their asses off every night.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Weight and Smyth were great for us but Smyth's game didn't really pick up until a few season into his career. Most of the other guys you mentioned only played a few seasons for us then went to other teams for more money. The supporting cast we had was excellent, blue collar players which is what we're missing today. Even players like Weight don't compare to Mcdavid and the rest of them don't compare to Draisaitl.

Now put that old Oilers supporting cast with Mcdavid, Draisaitl and RNH and tell me we're not a playoff team. Those were guys that worked their asses off every night.

Sorry but you are just wrong on Smyth.

The Oilers took their time with Smyth, as clubs should do. you can't realistically count his 3 games in 94 as a season.

Smyth bagged 39 goals in his sophomore year here. That's somebody figuring it out real quick. Most players struggle in rookie season, even Draisaitl did.

Of course the 96-97 oilers were deep, but there was a lot of usable talent on that club and no trouble at all filling out a roster. In fact players like Satan got so little toi here he didn't sport big numbers here. But his skill was getting me out of my seat regularly. I knew he was a player. But that's how deep that team was. That Oilers team is built out like the Flames are now, just solid at every position.

 

[Cloned]

Sorry but you are just wrong on Smyth.

The Oilers took their time with Smyth, as clubs should do. you can't realistically count his 3 games in 94 as a season.

Smyth bagged 39 goals in his sophomore year here. That's somebody figuring it out real quick. Most players struggle in rookie season, even Draisaitl did.

Of course the 96-97 oilers were deep, but there was a lot of usable talent on that club and no trouble at all filling out a roster. In fact players like Satan got so little toi here he didn't sport big numbers here. But his skill was getting me out of my seat regularly. I knew he was a player. But that's how deep that team was. That Oilers team is built out like the Flames are now, just solid at every position.

Too bad it was 20 years too early, at a time with no cap and clutch and grab hockey.