Salary Cap: The Clash: Should they stay or should they go.

Status
Not open for further replies.

UnderratedBrooks44

Registered User
Sep 13, 2005
17,564
315
Miranda's house
Youd get better value out of fleury though. And murray might be better than fleury. I hope the pens dont make a mistake and rush a trade that didnt nees to be rushed. Like the despres trade. Or hang on to fleury 3 years to long. Like kunitz.

Fleury has at least the rest of his contract left in terms of good years, and probably more. He's a great goalie and we know what we have in him. Murray looks good so far. That's all we know about him. Sure Murray could be better. Sprong could also be better than Pavel Bure, but that's not really an argument.
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
27,648
18,022
A year ago I think Kunitz gets you a nice return. Even this year I think he could get you a change of scenery type of winger return, but not a guy like Steen unless St Louis is really worried about cap space. Either way, it's going to have to be an off season type of trade and we are going to have to add a pretty nice future.

Depending on the plus, I'd absolutely do it.

Steen-Crosby-Hornqvist
Hagelin-Malkin-Kessel

Regardless of chemistry, those are just too good of players to not produce IMO.
That better be one big +. Steen has 41 points in 49 games for a winger who has 16 points and is overpaid by about 3.75 million. :laugh:
 

TNT87

Registered User
Jun 23, 2010
21,441
8,197
PA
Trade for another team's worst two defenseman and crappy backup goalie for our garbage of Lovejoy, Cole, and Zatkoffsupthepuck. I just want them gone.

Here I thought that when they acquired Cole he would be a serviceable bottom pairing defenseman. I was completely wrong.
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,704
8,141
That better be one big +. Steen has 41 points in 49 games for a winger who has 16 points and is overpaid by about 3.75 million. :laugh:

Oh I agree. I'm just speculating here. I think it would be really dumb, but St Louis likely can't afford to be a cap team. Maybe they just let Backes walk and trade Shattenkirk for a young proven asset. It just seems like there are a few pieces in play there.
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
27,648
18,022
Oh I agree. I'm just speculating here. I think it would be really dumb, but St Louis likely can't afford to be a cap team. Maybe they just let Backes walk and trade Shattenkirk for a young proven asset. It just seems like there are a few pieces in play there.

Id probably never sleep again from all the excitement if we got a shatty+ steen package. One can dream.....while also getting drouin and galchenyuk
 

Shady Machine

Registered User
Aug 6, 2010
36,704
8,141
Id probably never sleep again from all the excitement if we got a shatty+ steen package. One can dream.....while also getting drouin and galchenyuk

:laugh: We certainly don't have anywhere close enough assets to bring in both without gutting the world and pretending the salary cap doesn't exist.
 

Riptide

Registered User
Dec 29, 2011
38,887
6,520
Yukon
Horrible mistake if they trade murray before fleury. Wouldnt mind a jarry trade though

Would really depend on the scenario. If MAF signs a another extension (say 5x4m), and Jarry is progressing well, then no trading Murray for the right return isn't the end of the world. Trading Murray and not extending MAF however would be a big mistake.
 

Richard

Registered User
Feb 8, 2012
2,902
2,023
I'd trade Fleury and ride Murray. Hopefully fill a hole or two.


People forgot Marc-Andre is the biggest reason we haven't reached a cup final since '09.
 

UnderratedBrooks44

Registered User
Sep 13, 2005
17,564
315
Miranda's house
I'd trade Fleury and ride Murray. Hopefully fill a hole or two.


People forgot Marc-Andre is the biggest reason we haven't reached a cup final since '09.

Let's say it's bizarro day and I totally agree with this. Even if it was true the guy has been stellar in his 30s. Not giving him up for anything but a big ticket player or future big ticket player plus.
 

Riptide

Registered User
Dec 29, 2011
38,887
6,520
Yukon
Youd get better value out of fleury though. And murray might be better than fleury. I hope the pens dont make a mistake and rush a trade that didnt nees to be rushed. Like the despres trade. Or hang on to fleury 3 years to long. Like kunitz.

Not really. I referenced all the young guys traded who are currently starters (or were). There's almost no data to show that an established #1 goalie will bring back a better return. You'd think it would be obvious... but it's not something we've seen in this league. Miller is probably the only recent example.

Buffalo Sabres traded Ryan Miller and Steve Ott to the St. Louis Blues for Jaroslav Halak, Chris Stewart, William Carrier, a first-round draft pick in 2015 and a conditional third-round draft pick in 2016. Halak was traded to WSH for a 3rd, Kesla and Neuvirth (both pending FAs). Neuvirth was moved for Johnston and a conditional 3rd (we'll assume the conditions were met). Stewart was moved for a 2017 2nd.

So Miller - was essentially traded for a 1st, 2nd, 2x3rd, prospect, and a backup goalie. Which isn't bad. However there were a lot of moving pieces there and half that return (the second 3rd and the 2nd) was based off of Buffalo selling assets that were moved for cap reasons as part of the initial trade.

If Pittsburgh was moving MAF (say with 1.5 years left on his contract - aka we trade him 2 yrs from now), I'd be surprised if we could get more then a couple of 2nds and a decent prospect. Maybe we get a 1st and a prospect. We've seen time and time again that you do not need an All Star goalie to carry a team to success. And GMs know this. A good team and a decent goalie will go a long ways to having regular season success (something most teams are more worried about). And with teams like CHI, DET and DAL all potentially having goalies available, I do not see MAF getting some king's ransom.
 

Rufus

Letangarang
May 27, 2014
1,929
18
I'd trade Fleury and ride Murray. Hopefully fill a hole or two.


People forgot Marc-Andre is the biggest reason we haven't reached a cup final since '09.

Hm. No. Probably something about lack of scoring in 2013, defensive woes in 2012, running into a seriously hot goaltender in 2010, and being so seriously injured in 2011. Fleury is the reason we even made the playoffs last year. If the Pens trade MAF this year, they will not make the playoffs
 

vikingGoalie

Registered User
Oct 31, 2010
2,904
1,328
I'd trade Fleury and ride Murray. Hopefully fill a hole or two.


People forgot Marc-Andre is the biggest reason we haven't reached a cup final since '09.

really who was in net when we couldn't score against boston in the ECF ?
opposite question.
who was the steadiest and best playoff performer the last two post seasons? (hint it was a goalie)

what you should say is that the organization greatly failed Marc Andre by not getting him a proper goalie coach until recently.

Any goalie would be doomed to fail when you have "Puck Luck" Meloche whispering in your ear.
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
27,648
18,022
Not really. I referenced all the young guys traded who are currently starters (or were). There's almost no data to show that an established #1 goalie will bring back a better return. You'd think it would be obvious... but it's not something we've seen in this league. Miller is probably the only recent example.

Buffalo Sabres traded Ryan Miller and Steve Ott to the St. Louis Blues for Jaroslav Halak, Chris Stewart, William Carrier, a first-round draft pick in 2015 and a conditional third-round draft pick in 2016. Halak was traded to WSH for a 3rd, Kesla and Neuvirth (both pending FAs). Neuvirth was moved for Johnston and a conditional 3rd (we'll assume the conditions were met). Stewart was moved for a 2017 2nd.

So Miller - was essentially traded for a 1st, 2nd, 2x3rd, prospect, and a backup goalie. Which isn't bad. However there were a lot of moving pieces there and half that return (the second 3rd and the 2nd) was based off of Buffalo selling assets that were moved for cap reasons as part of the initial trade.

If Pittsburgh was moving MAF (say with 1.5 years left on his contract - aka we trade him 2 yrs from now), I'd be surprised if we could get more then a couple of 2nds and a decent prospect. Maybe we get a 1st and a prospect. We've seen time and time again that you do not need an All Star goalie to carry a team to success. And GMs know this. A good team and a decent goalie will go a long ways to having regular season success (something most teams are more worried about). And with teams like CHI, DET and DAL all potentially having goalies available, I do not see MAF getting some king's ransom.
If Wed definitely get a miller like return. Id do it.
 

PensandCaps

Beddy Tlueger
May 22, 2015
27,648
18,022
Hm. No. Probably something about lack of scoring in 2013, defensive woes in 2012, running into a seriously hot goaltender in 2010, and being so seriously injured in 2011. Fleury is the reason we even made the playoffs last year. If the Pens trade MAF this year, they will not make the playoffs

Even if we keep fleury....we miss the playoffs this year. Tbh.
 

UnderratedBrooks44

Registered User
Sep 13, 2005
17,564
315
Miranda's house
One thing worth mentioning about trading MAF down the road is that we're probably giving him to a team out west that's either a goalie short of making a run or a team that's itching to secure a playoff spot. We would get more tangible assets IMO just due to the caliber of player and the type of team we'd be sending him to.

Frankly I've never been overly impressed with Miller and I don't see why MAF wouldn't command slightly more given that the type of team that will want him is going to want him badly. An offseason deal would obviously nullify any of this though, which I guess is more realistic (he realized after he typed everything out).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad