The Case For Marc Crawford

[Soundwave]

Crawford won't fix anything. The team will still be terrible. It's a combination of a lot of things that can't be changed over night and it's clear that coaching is not a main issue.

It's a huge issue. Eakins bombed our rebuild and set the entire franchise back 2 years. Just because they're not automatically responding to Mac Dummy (who coaches the same style as Eakins just not as poorly) doesn't mean the Oilers magically are on the right track or that Eakins was somehow "right".

They still don't have a coach that can coach this type of roster. Marc Crawford can and has done it before.

Every one of Crawford's teams has scored 220+ goals/season, the Oilers have not scored more than 203 since drafting Taylor Hall.

 

[Zap Brannigan]

Those are just 6 players out of 20 guys on the roster every night. Even scrubs like Jordan Nolan, Kyle Clifford, Greene, Regehr etc

 

[Soundwave]

Those are just 6 players out of 20 guys on the roster every night. Even scrubs like Jordan Nolan, Kyle Clifford, Greene, Regehr etc

We can't play that Kings style. We just do not have the personel to do it. Not to mention we don't have the coach, Daryl Sutter is not coming here, he is going to coach in LA until he retires and then hand it over to John Stevens.

I'm not even concerned about the record or playoffs right now, we've reached a point even more dire than that. I just want a coach who can properly utilize the roster we actually have and get them to play to some of their strengths and get some production out of them.

We need a development medic 101 to come in and perform some emergency surgery here basically.

It wouldn't matter if the Flames were a bottom 10 team, Hartley's work in Calgary would be worth it just based on his development of Gaudreau, Monahan, Jooris, Brodie, etc. He would be a success just based on that. Having a good record on top of that is almost like icing on the cake.

 

[Soundwave]

Sorry I still have not gotten oven seeing Gretzky sitting on the end of the bench with the game on the line. Crawford can never coach my team

Who gives a **** really. Gretzky was like 5 years past his prime at that point and never was a great breakaway player.

If Gretzky goes and Hasek stops him, then people would be saying "well why would you put a washed up Gretzky in the shootout, why not go with someone in their prime who's better at it?".

 

[Throttlehead]

That's easy to say when you have a top 3 d-man in the world (Doughty), a top 3 goalie (Quick), and monstrous depth down the center position.

The Oilers are not built like that, they never will be.

Instead of continually hiring coaches that and then trying to get the players to bend to their system, hire someone who has coached a similarly built roster and actually done well with it.

Crawford has coached offence first teams, not only that he's coached teams that are lead by their wingers. He's coached teams that don't have an all-world goalie or a stud no.1 d-man, he just coached Dallas to 40+ wins with Trevor Daly as their no.1 d-man. He's coached lots of young, offensive minded forwards and almost always these types of players have developed well under him.

No coach will repair horrible goal tending, no coach can turn horrible veteran players to be stars. I can't understand why people can't see that our young drafts have no support and never have had any. If Crawford is this magic coach, he would have a job in the NHL already.

We need to let Nelson coach the team and see where we stand at the end of the year. If you get beyond our first line that shouldn't have Purcell on it, are we really a offense power house? We have ZERO veteran support, hell even Perron is young.

 

[Throttlehead]

Both team benefitted from the trades but in the long run, I think Philly did a lot better for themselves.

Richards started to decline hard after he was moved and they were able to pick up Schenn (who's probably better than him now) and Simmonds.

Carter gave them league leading scorer Voracek and Couturier.

Philly would be 1000x as bad today fi they didn't make those moves.


Similar situation with the Oilers, Eberle seems to be declining, Hall isn't getting the job done, and Yakupov is doing jack ****. It's time to cash in for their value via trades before the same thing happens to them that happened to Hemsky/Gagner.

Really?

So you want to start over before they can grow facial hair? Give them player support and a goalie and the team will change.

 

[Soundwave]

No coach will repair horrible goal tending, no coach can turn horrible veteran players to be stars. I can't understand why people can't see that our young drafts have no support and never have had any. If Crawford is this magic coach, he would have a job in the NHL already.

We need to let Nelson coach the team and see where we stand at the end of the year. If you get beyond our first line that shouldn't have Purcell on it, are we really a offense power house? We have ZERO veteran support, hell even Perron is young.

Crawford has coached teams with Dan Cloutier and Kari Lehtonen to 40+ win seasons. Not exactly world beating goalies.

The Oilers will never be an offensive power house if they cannot develop Draisaitl properly, IMO they are going to **** him up unless they bring in someone proven who has developed players like that. Crawford can develop him, he has done it time and time and time and time again before.

I don't have any big hopes for Nelson. IMO RNH/Eberle/Hall started exhibiting a lot of their bad habits after their stints in OKC and he has no track record whatsoever to fall back on. But hey, lets hope for the third straight time that an unproven coach can somehow get results here ... based on basically nothing.

AHL ain't the NHL.

Crawford is not a magic coach. He's not getting the Oilers into the playoffs overnight. But then again, no coach is doing that. He has an incredible track record of developing young, offensive minded players though, no one can deny that. His teams are also at least consistently entertaining, which is more than can be said for the morgue that is Rexall today.

If he does nothing but develop Draisaitl and whoever of McDavid/Eichel/Strome etc., and take Nugent Hopkins to the next level like Naslund, Sedin, Cammalleri, rejuvenating Brad Richards, etc. well ... he's worth hiring just based on that alone.

Even if they miss the playoffs every year he is here. Because the Oilers have not managed to do even one of the two things right, not only are they missing the playoffs every year (out by US Thanksgiving, lol) they are also ruining the development of their players in the process. At least do one of the things correctly for crying out loud.

 

[Zap Brannigan]

We can't play that Kings style. We just do not have the personel to do it. Not to mention we don't have the coach, Daryl Sutter is not coming here, he is going to coach in LA until he retires and then hand it over to John Stevens.

I'm not even concerned about the record or playoffs right now, we've reached a point even more dire than that. I just want a coach who can properly utilize the roster we actually have and get them to play to some of their strengths and get some production out of them.

We need a development medic 101 to come in and perform some emergency surgery here basically.

It wouldn't matter if the Flames were a bottom 10 team, Hartley's work in Calgary would be worth it just based on his development of Gaudreau, Monahan, Jooris, Brodie, etc. He would be a success just based on that. Having a good record on top of that is almost like icing on the cake.

It's not just the kings, its the red wings, blackhawks, blues etc pretty much every good team in the league. no coach can turn this roster around. the problem is the same thats its been forever.

the oilers need better players

 

[Tarus]

I remember when people were horrified at the thought at the squeaky voiced CBC color commenter who was a part of the Bertuzzi incident possibly coaching the Oilers

I would be fine with Crawford(or any other veteran coach with some measure of success at this level), but it's at the point it's pretty obvious that any coach they would hire would be severely undermined by the terrible management group. Either through terrible roster decisions, or straight up attempts to pressure and puppeteer the coaches over any and all decisions surrounding the on ice decision making.

 

[Soundwave]

It's not just the kings, its the red wings, blackhawks, blues etc pretty much every good team in the league. no coach can turn this roster around. the problem is the same thats its been forever.

the oilers need better players

Well that's fine, but that's like saying I wouldn't need to worry about my mortgage and car payments if I was Bill Gates. Well, gee that's nice, but that's not the reality of the situation.

The Oilers are not a hockey destination. What you have here is about as good as it gets.

Hire a damn coach that can at least if nothing else develop offensive minded talent well and has a proven record of doing so.

Bob Hartley did in Calgary, even though they didn't finish far ahead of us last year, he was very successful in developing Monahan and Brodie, and now this year with Gaudreau and Jooris also. Even if you take away a lot of their flukier wins and they were 10 points lower down the totem pole, he would still be a success there based on how he has brought their kids along.

We can't even manage that.

Before we have pipe dreams of being LA and Detroit, we might want to learn the basic concept of developing players properly. Throwing kids away the moment there some adversity isn't good enough. Not when you're a city where no big UFA will ever sign in. You do not have that luxury, that's the cold, hard reality.

All of Hall, Eberle, RNH, Draisaitl, Yakupov, Schultz, Gilbert, Paajarvi, Omark, Gagner, Cogliano, Lander, Pitlick, Dubnyk, Nilsson, are rotten? Maybe the issue is with our freaking development. How many 1st round picks are we going to ruin?

 

[Zap Brannigan]

The NHL isn't a developmental league. I agree that the Oilers need to develop alot better but the NHL isn't the place for it.

 

[Soundwave]

The NHL isn't a developmental league. I agree that the Oilers need to develop alot better but the NHL isn't the place for it.

How is Calgary doing it then?

20-year-old Monahan is sheltered by what stud no.1 center? Gaudreau weighs less than my sister.

The Oilers problem is in their hubris and arrogance they started throwing around terms like "we're going to play like Detroit, a puck possession game". They were saying this up until like two years ago.

Well no, **** Mr. Lowe that's easy to talk about when you have Nick Lidstrom and/or a 30-year-old Datsyuk + Zetterberg in place.

Instead this organization should have been humble and instead of having delusions of grandeur of being the next Detroit or Chicago overnight should have developed a style of play that actually works with the roster they have (not the one they think they have) and focused on player development and instilling day to day work ethic.

Instead of hiring coaches based on fancy systems play and pie-in-the-sky fantasies, they should've taken a good hard look at their roster and asked themselves which coaches have done well coaching similarly styled teams (in the NHL, not the AHL).

 

[Zap Brannigan]

smoke and mirrors.

The back half of the season won't be kind to the flames.

Gaudreau is outstanding though, great pick by the fat man.

 

[Tarus]

The NHL isn't a developmental league. I agree that the Oilers need to develop alot better but the NHL isn't the place for it.

Not even remotely true, every team in the NHL participates in actively developing players on the roster in the NHL.

In fact, if you look around the league, the teams that can effectively and consistently plug and play young(and cheap) players into a roster and develop their games on the fly, tend to be the teams that consistently stay in playoff(if not cup) contender status. You could say "but those teams have elite players who shelter players like that", but that's the whole point. Mentors, effective team structure, good coaches, and locker rooms that effectively peer pressure players into buying into committing to the less desirable aspects of hockey(aka, defense, playing hard in the dirty areas etc) are all essential to the proper development of young hockey players.

It's why teams like Chicago and San Jose can consistently plug in late first rounders/2nd rounders and end up with good players, and teams like Edmonton can borderline ruin 1st overall picks.

 

[La Bamba]

Really?

So you want to start over before they can grow facial hair? Give them player support and a goalie and the team will change.

We've changed their supporting cast multiple times as well as the goaltenders and the coaching. Still the same old results with this core. They are kids anymore, they're being paid 6M a season and aren't producing enough in their supposed "prime years".

 

[Zap Brannigan]

Not even remotely true, every team in the NHL participates in actively developing players on the roster in the NHL.

In fact, if you look around the league, the teams that can effectively and consistently plug and play young(and cheap) players into a roster and develop their games on the fly, tend to be the teams that consistently stay in playoff(if not cup) contender status. You could say "but those teams have elite players who shelter players like that", but that's the whole point. Mentors, effective team structure, good coaches, and locker rooms that effectively peer pressure players into buying into committing to the less desirable aspects of hockey(aka, defense, playing hard in the dirty areas etc) are all essential to the proper development of young hockey players.

It's why teams like Chicago and San Jose can consistently plug in late first rounders/2nd rounders and end up with good players, and teams like Edmonton can borderline ruin 1st overall picks.

The Blackhawks and Sharks aren't consistently plugging in 18 and 19 year old players every year and teaching them how to play a pro style game in the NHL. Look at the jurcos, nyquists, tatars etc that detroit is just now running with.

 

[Soundwave]

We've changed their supporting cast multiple times as well as the goaltenders and the coaching. Still the same old results with this core. They are kids anymore, they're being paid 6M a season and aren't producing enough in their supposed "prime years".

Yeah what a series of bad coincidences for the Oilers that all of Hall, RNH, Eberle, Yakupov, Paajarvi, Schultz, Draisaitl, Gagner, Cogliano, Nilsson, Gilbert, Omark, Dubnyk, Lander, etc. all went bust.

Can't possibly have anything to do with their day to day development.

Guess the NHL needs to give them another twenty top 10 picks before they can assemble a half way decent roster at this rate.

Also one shouldn't confuse "changing coaches" with hiring properly competent coaches or "changing goalies" with actually having a number 1 goalie.

 

[Zap Brannigan]

The vast majority of those players didn't bust.

Is your definition of an NHL success like a All Star or something

 

[Soundwave]

The vast majority of those players didn't bust.

Is your definition of an NHL success like a All Star or something

Poor us. Three 1st overalls in a row, three more top 10 picks on top of that, several more 1st round picks in addition ... still can't stay in a playoff race past Thanksgiving, regressing since Renney left.

 

[Soundwave]

The Blackhawks and Sharks aren't consistently plugging in 18 and 19 year old players every year and teaching them how to play a pro style game in the NHL. Look at the jurcos, nyquists, tatars etc that detroit is just now running with.

The Flames are. The Avalanche play plenty of young players too. The Panthers are playing a lot of young players.

The Oilers need to get out of their head that they should be the next Blackhawks or Sharks (or Red Wings). This is like a girl who isn't even that good looking complaining that she's not a Victoria Secret model. You're just not that good looking sweetheart, it doesn't mean your life is over or you can't be successful doing something else.

The Oilers need to get their head of the clouds and look at something reasonable. They're not going to be the next Blackhawks or Sharks overnight, at least look at what teams like Florida and Calgary are doing, that's a much more reasonable goal to have.

If the Oilers can at least become a team that wins 35-40 games a season again, isn't ruining all their young players, and plays some form of mildly entertaining hockey ... that would be a huge freaking step for this organization. Crawford can get them to take that step IMO, he can also take guys like RNH, Hall, and Draisaitl and save their development. *If* RNH, Hall, Drai have potential to become 75-100+ point players, Crawford will find it and coax it out of them.

 

[rboomercat90]

I remember when people were horrified at the thought at the squeaky voiced CBC color commenter who was a part of the Bertuzzi incident possibly coaching the Oilers

I would be fine with Crawford(or any other veteran coach with some measure of success at this level), but it's at the point it's pretty obvious that any coach they would hire would be severely undermined by the terrible management group. Either through terrible roster decisions, or straight up attempts to pressure and puppeteer the coaches over any and all decisions surrounding the on ice decision making.

This is really where we are it.

I find it pointless talking about the next coach until we know what next seasons management structure is going to look like. If it's the same as it is now then Nelson will likely continue on. If we've learned anything from the past few years and even this year, it's that these guys don't want a coach they can't completely control. They aren't interested in any veterans. Mactavish on the bench right now is the most blatant example of meddling management I've ever seen on any team, anywhere. Then the team will continue to flounder as it has due to meddling from the incompetents above. If Lowe and Mactavish are gone and somebody new comes in, only then can this team begin to repair itself. If that's the case then we can talk about who the next coach will be. I'd even support Crawford if that was the choice of the new GM.

 

[redgrant]

I think any sane person realizes that Crawford or any well respected hockey coach is a massive upgrade from Nelson.

The dream would be Babs but that is just that .... a dream.

Im good with either Crawford or Bylsma.

 

[Tarus]

The Blackhawks and Sharks aren't consistently plugging in 18 and 19 year old players every year and teaching them how to play a pro style game in the NHL. Look at the jurcos, nyquists, tatars etc that detroit is just now running with.

Sure they are, Saad/Hertl come to mind from just recently

It's not a specific age thing either. Generally players from 18 - 25 are not finished their development cycles, and on good teams are plugged into non-primary roles in the NHL to learn defense and polish their games while contributing in a support role.

Saying it's not a development league when virtually every team in the league employs unpolished younger players in support roles with the hope that it'll pay off at a later date, is really just not true.

 

[Raab]

Your research is interesting.

At this point, another coach is absurd.

Nelson has won with this group of players.

No to another coach - the only way I'm on board with this is if the organization is gutted entirely, and a new POHO appoints one.

By gutted, that includes players who are in the "core". This core does not need another new coach. At this point, it could be Jesus and it wouldn't make a difference.

No to crow.

Won what exactly? Even in the AHL the young guns struggled, and he hasn't won a game here at the NHL level yet. We need a BIG trade or two and a management purge. Until that happens its business as usual for the Facist Katz and his cronies.

 

[Captain Catatomic]

The personell seems fine.
its the organizational internal structure and upper end management system theyre using.