The Canadiens' popularity compared to that of the Maple Leafs

[RealityBytes]

Not really fair to compare the 2 cities. Corporate Montreal really took a beating at start of FLQ and then Separatist movement. Before late '70s/early 80s Montreal was biggest city in Canada.

Montreal was the city of Canada in 1967 but no more.

As an HFB poster said, Toronto should build a statue of Rene Levesque, Jacques Parizeau, and Pauline Marois and put it in front of Toronto city hall. Those three did more for the advancement of commerce in Toronto and southern Ontario than anybody else.

 

[Chet-Nick]

We're not talking about business, commerce and politics.

Just a recent update I added to a thread (popularity throughout Canada) already dealing with the same subject.

If you don't like it ... too bad!

 

[Agnostic]

My experience are that Leaf fans, while being centred around Toronto, don't fall for the "mecca" or "centre of the universe" stuff. It's media that shovels that message. I have never heard a Leaf fan friend of mine say "Canada's team". These are just talking points in the 24/7/365 infotainment world.

The only characteristic about Leaf fans that I think make them even remotely unique (and not even really) is their dreaming for the future. I mean I recall having a bar discussion with a fan who was convinced that Datsyuk and Zetterberg were both coming to Toronto because Detroit couldn't afford them. The current story is Stamkos is coming to Toronto after his current contract because he wants to come "home". PK rumours abounded until last weekend. They seem less realistic based on what media feeds them.

It's all in the competition for listeners on radio, internet, and TV. Media can't sell ad time on shows that dwell on the Leafs sucking again , they have to build messages of hope and let it take off for them even if it involves BS. Dubas might as well be named Pythagoras, it seems like he invented this thing called stats. Shanny is creating this game changing "change in culture" by keeping his coach and GM and all the players that failed the team in the past 2 years. Uh, what change is that Shanny?

I find Montreal media much less offensive (at least on the English side) and grounded. I wouldn't expect a Montreal media type to put a 75 percent chance that Crosby is coming to Montreal, like Mike Richards of TSN1050 did with Stamkos. Montreal media fell off their chairs when Vanek was traded here. They are realistic.

If you want todays example of "hope culture" look no further than Rogers handling of the Blue Jays. After June, despite having obvious flaws that any baseball fan can see, there were call in polls asking the question if the Jays were the "best Blue Jay team of all time". Really? Now we have Mike Wilner becoming an excuse machine for his employer and declaring Anthony Gose to be the best defensive centre fielder in Jays history. Shovel the hope guys, fans eat that stuff up.

As for Canada's team, there are 7 of them.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

I hope fans in Toronto grow more and more frustrated as the Habs continue to surpass les feuilles mortes.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

Montreal was the city of Canada in 1967 but no more.

As an HFB poster said, Toronto should build a statue of Rene Levesque, Jacques Parizeau, and Pauline Marois and put it in front of Toronto city hall. Those three did more for the advancement of commerce in Toronto and southern Ontario than anybody else.

Toronto may be the financial hub of Canada but it hasn't staged a Stanley Cup celebration in 47 years and the fast continues. New York City waited 54 years (1940 to 1954) for the Rangers' next Cup. IMO the 30 million Toronto fans (so they fancy, although they don't really know how the rest of Canada feels about the Leafs) will have to wait even longer. The famine should beget humility along the shores of Lake Ontario.

 

[Davebo*]

This is very true. Their are legions of Leaf fans waiting for a decent team to emerge. When the Leafs win the cup, the city will shut down. There are too many distractions for fans in Toronto when the Leafs don't play well. In Montreal it is the Habs or nothing else. If the Habs miss the playoffs for a few years (let alone 9) nobody would be watching them on TV, let alone at the Bell center. There is a reason the CBC and Sportsnet, and TSN fight for the rights to broadcast Leaf games, they draw the most viewers consistently year after year. The Leafs being the most valuable team, (the only hockey one listed on Forbe's list of the 50 most valuable sports teams in the world) is nothing to sneer at. It is to some extent a measurement of a team's fan base depth for their particular sport. Montreal has fans, but most of them come out of the woodwork when they win. I suspect you would see a whole new level of numbers if the Leafs get it together and start winning

What a load of horse-****.

I hope fans in Toronto grow more and more frustrated as the Habs continue to surpass les feuilles mortes.

Absolutely!

 

[RealityBytes]

We're not talking about business, commerce and politics.

Just a recent update I added to a thread (popularity throughout Canada) already dealing with the same subject.

If you don't like it ... too bad!

Learn to read. Mats86 was talking about that topic and the Separatist movement in post #73 and I responded to him, not your silly idea. Mats86 post was as follows:

Not really fair to compare the 2 cities. Corporate Montreal really took a beating at start of FLQ and then Separatist movement. Before late '70s/early 80s Montreal was biggest city in Canada.

 

[RealityBytes]

Toronto may be the financial hub of Canada but it hasn't staged a Stanley Cup celebration in 47 years and the fast continues. New York City waited 54 years (1940 to 1954) for the Rangers' next Cup. IMO the 30 million Toronto fans (so they fancy, although they don't really know how the rest of Canada feels about the Leafs) will have to wait even longer. The famine should beget humility along the shores of Lake Ontario.

They are leaving us behind in sports as well though.

Montreal has an NHL and dismal CFL and MLS franchises. Toronto, on the other hand has a dismal NHL franchise, but also an MLB, NBA, and possibly even an NFL franchise possibly coming aside from a CFL and a decent playoff bound MLS franchise as well. We can beat them in hockey, but basically, they have more than just hockey and they did have a major sports parade (World Series) after us in the fall of '93.

It is what it is and to me it just seems silly and petty to always bash Toronto and fight to claim Montreal is so much better. Reality is reality and it does bite sometimes.

 

[JohnLennon]

It's weird that people are still arguing which team is more popular when the first post clearly states that, in almost identical situations occurring only a year apart, the Habs easily surpassed the Leafs in ratings vs. Bruins in the playoffs if we include RDS numbers. Then when we take into account the Facebook and Twitter pages, the best indicators of social media popularity, and the Habs also win.

What else more is there to discuss? We had this same conversation years ago, and the Habs STILL came out on top. (http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=592423 ...also done by Chet-Nick)

We already know the Habs have the most fans in hockey. There's nothing left to discuss. We should focus on the team on the ice instead of the size of the fanbase. It's success on the ice that really matters, and truly creates a fanbase. In fact, the Habs' past success is the main reason they are the most popular hockey team in the world today.

 

[Chet-Nick]

You're correct, "John Lennon." Five years, to be exact. As you saw, my very first post consisted of relatively recent numbers.

The other day I added this >

http://globalnews.ca/news/1495609/l...urvey-says-habs-are-canadas-top-sports-brand/

Much to the chagrin of some internet "warrior" - who shall remain nameless.

It is what it is. Public opinion. While the numbers have fluctuated over the years. In the end, it's always the Canadiens who seem to have the stronger fan base over Toronto.

Hence the title of this thread.

 

[RealityBytes]

You're correct, "John Lennon." Five years, to be exact. As you saw, my very first post consisted of relatively recent numbers.

The other day I added this >

http://globalnews.ca/news/1495609/l...urvey-says-habs-are-canadas-top-sports-brand/

Much to the chagrin of some internet "warrior" - who shall remain nameless.

It is what it is. Public opinion. While the numbers have fluctuated over the years. In the end, it's always the Canadiens who seem to have the stronger fan base over Toronto.

Hence the title of this thread.

As another poster stated "awesome, MTL beats the TO'S facebook and twitter " numbers. It's a trash data count. Trash data because there could be a lot of Montreal involved Montreal fans making fifty posts each in May during a Habs playoff run vs disinterested fans whose team is not in the playoffs and not making posts. It is not a fan head count. It's also temporal as another person posted. I can't believe you are so absolutely dense you don't understand this.

Anyway, make up any ******** you want and believe what you want. I don't care, I don't believe your claim the Habs are Canada's team based on your silly weak data, and nobody else with two cents of common sense believes it either.

There are seven NHL teams in Canada and none have the claim to be called Canada's team. Period.

 

[Saintpatrick*]

Montreal was the city of Canada in 1967 but no more.

As an HFB poster said, Toronto should build a statue of Rene Levesque, Jacques Parizeau, and Pauline Marois and put it in front of Toronto city hall. Those three did more for the advancement of commerce in Toronto and southern Ontario than anybody else.

Amen to that. The separatist movement essentially gutted Montreal. A generation of former Montrealers fled to Toronto in the 70's and 80's and made that city what it is today.

 

[Chet-Nick]

As another poster stated "awesome, MTL beats the TO'S facebook and twitter " numbers. It's a trash data count. Trash data because there could be a lot of Montreal involved Montreal fans making fifty posts each in May during a Habs playoff run vs disinterested fans whose team is not in the playoffs and not making posts. It is not a fan head count. It's also temporal as another person posted. I can't believe you are so absolutely dense you don't understand this.

Anyway, make up any ******** you want and believe what you want. I don't care, I don't believe your claim the Habs are Canada's team based on your silly weak data, and nobody else with two cents of common sense believes it either.

There are seven NHL teams in Canada and none have the claim to be called Canada's team. Period.

Two things.

If you "don't care." Then why do you keep trolling/following my posts?

What exactly have you provided to counter my "silly weak data?"

Read the title of this thread - slowly. The five (maybe six) unbiased links, I have supplied, are certainly more worthy than what spews from your little mind.

 

[RealityBytes]

Two things.

If you "don't care." Then why do you keep trolling/following my posts?

What exactly have you provided to counter my "silly weak data?"

Read the title of this thread - slowly. The five (maybe six) unbiased links, I have supplied, are certainly more worthy than what spews from your little mind.

Good Lord, are you thickheaded. Repeat: Your data source is not a valid fan count, and it is temporal. It is not valid for your claim. Put a different Canadian team in the playoffs in May with the Habs out and the numbers will change considerably.

As I said make up any trash you want, and believe it yourself but stop purporting it to others as being a valid argument and data to support your claim that one NHL team is Canada's team. You need to be shut down on this for spreading ******** and using it to support your silly claim.

Anyway, that's it, I've had enough of your garbage, and this is my final post on your nonsense.

 

[CGG]

Hate to break it to you, but it's already been decided that the Leafs are in fact Canada's team. They said so themselves, by playing this crap of a song at Leafs games a few years ago, courtesy of Alan Frew, whoever he is:

 

[Lshap]

Good Lord, are you thickheaded. Repeat: Your data source is not a valid fan count, and it is temporal. It is not valid for your claim. Put a different Canadian team in the playoffs in May with the Habs out and the numbers will change considerably.

As I said make up any trash you want, and believe it yourself but stop purporting it to others as being a valid argument and data to support your claim that one NHL team is Canada's team. You need to be shut down on this for spreading ******** and using it to support your silly claim.

Anyway, that's it, I've had enough of your garbage, and this is my final post on your nonsense.

Objectively, I don't get your attitude. The thread was about the Canadiens' popularity vs the Leafs, and the OP posted data to show the Habs outpacing the Leafs in various categories. Soft data? Sure, but it's a soft topic during the off-season -- what's the harm? He never proclaimed the Habs "Canada's team"; in fact he never made any conclusions. He just posed the questions.

Instead of adding to the discussion, your responses have been obnoxious. I'll have to repeat his question: If you don't like the topic, why post?

 

[Chet-Nick]

Objectively, I don't get your attitude. The thread was about the Canadiens' popularity vs the Leafs, and the OP posted data to show the Habs outpacing the Leafs in various categories. Soft data? Sure, but it's a soft topic during the off-season -- what's the harm? He never proclaimed the Habs "Canada's team"; in fact he never made any conclusions. He just posed the questions.

Instead of adding to the discussion, your responses have been obnoxious. I'll have to repeat his question: If you don't like the topic, why post?

Well put, "Lshap!" Some people just don't get it. Or stubbornly refuse to get it.

Funny thing is. Some of the links I provided, along this thread, date back to 2012 (when the Habs experienced a brutal season) and in 2009. Still the same outcome. Sometimes you go with the information that's available.

 

[Chet-Nick]

Hate to break it to you, but it's already been decided that the Leafs are in fact Canada's team. They said so themselves, by playing this crap of a song at Leafs games a few years ago, courtesy of Alan Frew, whoever he is:

Perfect example of a arrogant self-proclamation! A typical trait amongst most - not all - Leafs fans.

 

[TMLegend]

You mean a team that's been relatively successful of late is more popular than a team that has spent a decade in utter futility? Yeah, this is real ground breaking stuff.

Honestly, I'm surprised it's as close as it is. If the Leafs ever return to respectability I can almost guarantee there will be sizable gap between the two.

Personally, I really don't give a crap either way. If the Habs are indeed more popular, it doesn't make me feel any different about the team I cheer for.

 

[11Goat11]

You mean a team that's been relatively successful of late is more popular than a team that has spent a decade in utter futility? Yeah, this is real ground breaking stuff.

Honestly, I'm surprised it's as close as it is. If the Leafs ever return to respectability I can almost guarantee there will be sizable gap between the two.

Personally, I really don't give a crap either way. If the Habs are indeed more popular, it doesn't make me feel any different about the team I cheer for.

It is kind of a kick in the nads for Leafs fans though, they always clung to this belief that at least they are the most popular team in the NHL even though they sucked for years. Now the Habs have taken that from them as well, I like it!

 

[Naoned]

A question comes to mind: since you live in Toronto maybe you could tell me something: do they sell a lot of Leafs jersey with the number 1967 in the back? You know.. for very old times sake?

Robert Svehla may have sold a few.

 

[JohnLennon]

As another poster stated "awesome, MTL beats the TO'S facebook and twitter " numbers. It's a trash data count. Trash data because there could be a lot of Montreal involved Montreal fans making fifty posts each in May during a Habs playoff run vs disinterested fans whose team is not in the playoffs and not making posts. It is not a fan head count. It's also temporal as another person posted. I can't believe you are so absolutely dense you don't understand this.

Obviously, you have no clue how social media works. "Followers" and "Likes" aren't the same thing as "Montreal fans making fifty posts each vs disinterested fans"... in fact, it has nothing to do with posting anything. It is literally the amount of people who choose to follow the team in social media, whether they are actively participating or not. Press the "Follow" button on the team's page, and you are officially a Twitter fan of the team. Montreal has more people who chose to be a fan of the Habs on both Twitter and Facebook. That's the point Chet-Nick is making.

Of course it isn't concrete numbers, but they do show that Montreal has more people who chose to follow the team on Facebook or Twitter. Both fanbases have access to the same social websites, so the fact that the Habs are more popular in social media is still relevant in a discussion about the size of each fanbase, and frankly, it is much more valid information than any of the whining we have heard from you.

Anyway, make up any ******** you want and believe what you want. I don't care, I don't believe your claim the Habs are Canada's team based on your silly weak data, and nobody else with two cents of common sense believes it either.

There are seven NHL teams in Canada and none have the claim to be called Canada's team. Period.

Nobody made the claim that Montreal was Canada's Team... only sarcastic jokes have been made. You are the one getting angry and offended with the data Chet-Nick has provided. He simply implied that the Montreal Canadiens have a larger fanbase. Considering the TV data that he presented us (both five years apart yet telling the same story) which is the most concrete data we really can obtain as fans, I'm inclined to agree that his implication is correct. Especially when factoring in other data, like the number of social media fans.

I recommend you stop being so hostile. I understand why a discussion on the size of a fanbase may frustrate you, but you are honestly just making the case stronger for Chet-Nick by whining aimlessly and disputing the facts he presented without even presenting any of your own.

 

[JohnLennon]

You mean a team that's been relatively successful of late is more popular than a team that has spent a decade in utter futility? Yeah, this is real ground breaking stuff.

Honestly, I'm surprised it's as close as it is. If the Leafs ever return to respectability I can almost guarantee there will be sizable gap between the two.

Personally, I really don't give a crap either way. If the Habs are indeed more popular, it doesn't make me feel any different about the team I cheer for.

This is grasping at straws. Every Leafs fan around the world was tuning in when they were in the playoffs, about to beat the Bruins in Game 7, yet when the same exact situation arose when the Habs face the Bruins in Game 7 only one year later, it is the Habs who drew a larger TV audience.

I think the claim you're making is bogus, and I also think you do give a crap, otherwise you wouldn't have responded sarcastically, trying to argue the point OP is making. In the end, the TV data and social media data he has presented is all that is really necessary to indicate the Habs have a larger fanbase. But what do you care?

 

[Never]

Montreal is not Canada's team.

Toronto is also not Canada's team.

Canada's team is the one that steps onto the ice at international events.