The Blue and White Disease

[hullsy47]

Not true.....Kessel telling Dion on the ice to shut the F up....is telling as is the rift between Clarkson and Dion....that is just what is out in public.

the you tube video of kessel laughing at phaneuf in one of the most crucial games of the year,real soured me ,immature is what kessel is ,and im not sure ive every seen the likes of that in anything but an exihibition or a blowout..
and kessel telling dion off .....then going ahead and not doing what he should have ,well if u played hockey ,guys get get punched out in the room for that crap
real classy phil the thrill
and if there is rift between clarkson and dion ,clarkson should be continued to be called out
he had no show games too
we are all hard on phaneuf,but at least he was out there when the going got tough
in the trenches ,not the parimeter

 

[ACC1224]

I was at the next game following the "infamous" Kessel/Phanuef blow up on the ice and watched them, as the last two coming up the tunnel, laughing and tapping each other as they went out for the anthem.

Honestly anyone who thinks the words exchanged at the face off dot(while under extreme pressure to end the freefall) have any real meaning, probably hasn't been around any type of competitive sport.

 

[ForSpareParts*]

The proper meaning of the blue and white disease fleeting...

 

[egd27]

I was at the next game following the "infamous" Kessel/Phanuef blow up on the ice and watched them, as the last two coming up the tunnel, laughing and tapping each other as they went out for the anthem.

Honestly anyone who thinks the words exchanged at the face off dot(while under extreme pressure to end the freefall) have any real meaning, probably hasn't been around any type of competitive sport.

See! See!

Horseplay!!! when they should be focusing on the upcoming game. Get rid of both of them. This team will never win anything until we rid ourselves of this light hearted attitude.

 

[ACC1224]

See! See!

Horseplay!!! when they should be focusing on the upcoming game. Get rid of both of them. This team will never win anything until we rid ourselves of this light hearted attitude.

It was most likely all for show as they probably knew they were being watched.
Hatred that deep can't just be turned on and off.

 

[Daisy Jane]

if it's blue and white disease if I support my team through thick and thin, success or failure, than fine. I'd rather be that person who suffered through the patheticness than the one who ditched when the team was doing poorly and came back because they finally became good and won a cup.

 

[rojac]

if it's blue and white disease if I support my team through thick and thin, success or failure, than fine. I'd rather be that person who suffered through the patheticness than the one who ditched when the team was doing poorly and came back because they finally became good and won a cup.

Which is great if you're still getting some enjoyment of being a fan during that patheticness, but if being a fan is truly making you unhappy then in my mind, sticking around is stupid.

 

[theIceWookie]

I'm just rambling here but, Burke hires Allaire - turns out he's a dinosaur, using out-dated methods and the goalies suffer.

The same dinosaur that has a Vezina nominated goalie working under him right now?

The one who's credited with improving Varlamov's game to where it is now?

Yeah, you lost credibility after this line...

 

[Durkin67]

Maybe you should stop worrying about typos etc and stick to content and opinions as that is what this forum is based on.....also look at what you posted.

You really can not help your self....backhanded comments and veiled attempts at personal attacks......I know what I'm doing as a coach, hence the reason why I was paid a lot of money to do so.

I stand by my opinion as to why Versteeg was traded.....he was fitting in nicely and was producing points when he was allowed to play a offensive role....At the time Grabo, Kulemin and C Mac were a very good second line meaning that he only had one spot in the top six available and that was with Kessel and Bozak....Wilson was playing a System that was vast different from the Stanley Cup Championship team that Versteeg had just played for. He was producing very well in the limited amount of time he was used in a offensive role.

35 points in 53 games and was our 5 highest scoring forward at the end of the season despite playing only 2/3 of the season, was on the top PP unit. Not bad for a player who was not fitting in.

Believe whatever you want, dude. Doesn't make it any more valid. You got a hate on for Phaneuf and apparently, it makes it impossible for you to speak objectively about his contribution to the club. Better hockey minds than yours and mine claim he is a valuable asset, but he doesn't get the support he needs from the rest of the D corps to maximize his effectiveness. He's over-utilized. Pete De Boer cut McCabe down to under twenty minutes and started relying on other players to create balance, and the results were favourable. Phaneuf isnt Chara; he cant be effective for half a game. That doesnt make him useless. Back to your angry little anti-Dion corner, now...

 

[hotpaws]

Believe whatever you want, dude. Doesn't make it any more valid. You got a hate on for Phaneuf and apparently, it makes it impossible for you to speak objectively about his contribution to the club. Better hockey minds than yours and mine claim he is a valuable asset, but he doesn't get the support he needs from the rest of the D corps to maximize his effectiveness. He's over-utilized. Pete De Boer cut McCabe down to under twenty minutes and started relying on other players to create balance, and the results were favourable. Phaneuf isnt Chara; he cant be effective for half a game. That doesnt make him useless. Back to your angry little anti-Dion corner, now...

He was 33rd in mins played (23.33 ), how is that over-utilized ?

It's very difficult to take your opinion seriously when your saying he's a valuable asset yet he needs to play less and in a more sheltered role . You don't pay a player the 5th highest salary at his position if he can't handle the mins and role the expectations of that cap hit come with .

 

[Trapper]

He was 33rd in mins played (23.33 ), how is that over-utilized ?

It's very difficult to take your opinion seriously when your saying he's a valuable asset yet he needs to play less and in a more sheltered role . You don't pay a player the 5th highest salary at his position if he can't handle the mins and role the expectations of that cap hit come with .

Kessel is being paid to be a no. 1 winger on any NHL team.
Phaneuf is being paid to be a no. 1 D on any NHL team.

 

[Durkin67]

He was 33rd in mins played (23.33 ), how is that over-utilized ?

It's very difficult to take your opinion seriously when your saying he's a valuable asset yet he needs to play less and in a more sheltered role . You don't pay a player the 5th highest salary at his position if he can't handle the mins and role the expectations of that cap hit come with .

Please explain 33rd in minutes played. Is that among all NHL defenders, or all NHL players?


Secondly, if you think I am the only one saying that he has been too heavily relied on, you aren't paying attention. The same has been said across the NHL media and analyst spectrum, from former players to insiders to radio show hosts with professional backgrounds in the sport at the NHL level.

If it was simply a matter of "my opinion", you might have a point, but that isn't the case. He was regularly paired with raw prospects and rookies last season. IN terms of physical defenders with some offence, it was really him and Franson. Franny was a nightmare this year in terms of turnovers and gaffes at crucial times. Phaneuf has been asked to do more than should be expected.

Your problem is that you automatically correlate cap hit with performance expectations. That isnt always the case... see: Grabovski, Mikael, formerly of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Is he a 5+ million dollar per season bonafide 2C? Not in my books, and apparently the hockey world concurs. Where was he playing in WSH? Was he not shuffled down to the 3 hole? Was that a coaching mistake? That would make for a strange coincidence, no?

It's a matter of supply and demand. Nonis couldn't afford to let the trade deadline pass before having Phaneuf under contract. Having your captain playing in a lame duck contract scenario while attempting to contend for a playoff spot, in a media-mad city would have been stupid. Is Dion overpaid? I think so, but like Grabo, there were simply no better options available. More should be expected from all across the D corps, in terms of shutdown ability. We all expected Mark fraser to at least be as effective as he was last year. We also expected Ranger to settle in an play a fairly important role as well. everyone not named Rielly underachieved for the best part of the season, and Phaneuf was once again relied on to make up the difference.

As JR said recently, he's a valuable player but he needs some help back there. That's not hard to see.

 

[Faltorvo]

Please explain 33rd in minutes played. Is that among all NHL defenders, or all NHL players?


Secondly, if you think I am the only one saying that he has been too heavily relied on, you aren't paying attention. The same has been said across the NHL media and analyst spectrum, from former players to insiders to radio show hosts with professional backgrounds in the sport at the NHL level.

If it was simply a matter of "my opinion", you might have a point, but that isn't the case. He was regularly paired with raw prospects and rookies last season. IN terms of physical defenders with some offence, it was really him and Franson. Franny was a nightmare this year in terms of turnovers and gaffes at crucial times. Phaneuf has been asked to do more than should be expected.

Your problem is that you automatically correlate cap hit with performance expectations. That isnt always the case... see: Grabovski, Mikael, formerly of the Toronto Maple Leafs. Is he a 5+ million dollar per season bonafide 2C? Not in my books, and apparently the hockey world concurs. Where was he playing in WSH? Was he not shuffled down to the 3 hole? Was that a coaching mistake? That would make for a strange coincidence, no?

It's a matter of supply and demand. Nonis couldn't afford to let the trade deadline pass before having Phaneuf under contract. Having your captain playing in a lame duck contract scenario while attempting to contend for a playoff spot, in a media-mad city would have been stupid. Is Dion overpaid? I think so, but like Grabo, there were simply no better options available. More should be expected from all across the D corps, in terms of shutdown ability. We all expected Mark fraser to at least be as effective as he was last year. We also expected Ranger to settle in an play a fairly important role as well. everyone not named Rielly underachieved for the best part of the season, and Phaneuf was once again relied on to make up the difference.

As JR said recently, he's a valuable player but he needs some help back there. That's not hard to see.

To what I bolded.

Ummm actually that is the key to success in a cap world. As a matter of fact, the real key is to have players perform ABOVE what their cap hit is.

I would argue the best bang for the buck on our D was Gunner.

 

[Mach85]

He was 33rd in mins played (23.33 ), how is that over-utilized ?

It's very difficult to take your opinion seriously when your saying he's a valuable asset yet he needs to play less and in a more sheltered role . You don't pay a player the 5th highest salary at his position if he can't handle the mins and role the expectations of that cap hit come with .

There's one or two guys in the league (Chara and Suter maybe) who can handle heavy minutes while playing with a d-partner who's nothing more than a second or third-pairing guy, and little to no support from the forwards. Dion's not superman.

As for the salary, blame management for that if you think he's overpaid. Would you not take the money if it was offered to you?

Bottom line is, this team is in a hell of a lot of trouble without Dion.

 

[Al14]

Kessel is being paid to be a no. 1 winger on any NHL team.
Phaneuf is being paid to be a no. 1 D on any NHL team.

And, there are many NHL teams where they'd be 2nd line players and paid $1.5M-$2.5M less!

Phaneuf is an OK #2 D and a great #3 D. He's a very poor to average #1 D.

Kessel is a good #1 winger, and a great #2 winger.

JMHO.

 

[ACC1224]

There's one or two guys in the league (Chara and Suter maybe) who can handle heavy minutes while playing with a d-partner who's nothing more than a second or third-pairing guy, and little to no support from the forwards. Dion's not superman.

As for the salary, blame management for that if you think he's overpaid. Would you not take the money if it was offered to you?

Bottom line is, this team is in a hell of a lot of trouble without Dion.

Everyone but a few understand this.

 

[Faltorvo]

There's one or two guys in the league (Chara and Suter maybe) who can handle heavy minutes while playing with a d-partner who's nothing more than a second or third-pairing guy, and little to no support from the forwards. Dion's not superman.

As for the salary, blame management for that if you think he's overpaid. Would you not take the money if it was offered to you?

Bottom line is, this team is in a hell of a lot of trouble without Dion.

Solely blame management for that contract? bloody hell seriously?

Man you surely do not understand the role of an agent then.

What dion signed for was the lowest $ and term he would accept.

I blame 99% of this on dion and his camp , 1% on dave no no for caving in.

 

[Trapper]

Everyone but a few understand this.

Chara is 37 years old and there is no player better on D than he is.
Suter is 28 and I doubt that anyone passes him skill wise in the next 3 years.
On the Leafs however its possible. What are you going to do if Rielly,Gardiner/Percy and maybe somebody else we acquire are all better than Phaneuf in 3 years? Pay him 7 million on the 2nd pair?
I don't care who likes or doesn't like Phaneuf.
His contract is nuts. At 5.5 he could stay. At 7 mil for 7 years its an anchor.
I wouldn't pay Callahan 6 million year and would have moved Phaneuf in the same manner. We are not a contender and locking into anyone at this point that isn't 23 is not smart.

 

[achtungbaby]

Everyone but a few understand this.

I'd say most people know this. If you just came to that realization it doesn't mean others take that long.

 

[ACC1224]

Chara is 37 years old and there is no player better on D than he is.
Suter is 28 and I doubt that anyone passes him skill wise in the next 3 years.
On the Leafs however its possible. What are you going to do if Rielly,Gardiner/Percy and maybe somebody else we acquire are all better than Phaneuf in 3 years? Pay him 7 million on the 2nd pair?
I don't care who likes or doesn't like Phaneuf.
His contract is nuts. At 5.5 he could stay. At 7 mil for 7 years its an anchor.
I wouldn't pay Callahan 6 million year and would have moved Phaneuf in the same manner. We are not a contender and locking into anyone at this point that isn't 23 is not smart.

Not sure I understand your point. They shouldn't pay someone now because someone may be better in 3 years?

 

[Trapper]

Not sure I understand your point. They shouldn't pay someone now because someone may be better in 3 years?

You are going to have a very hard time moving Phaneuf in the next 3/4 years if he is the 4th best D on the team. You also might need that money to pay other players like Bernier etc. in those 3 years. Just like Clarkson, how many players may pass him on the depth chart? Phaneuf is not elite, he should not have been locked up as such. If Phaneuf were 22 perhaps, not almost 30 when the rest of the team is severly lacking.
I'm not debating Phaneuf the defenseman. I have my views and respect yours on Phaneuf if you think he is fine as a no. 1.
The salary is the issue for me and that would have been the big goodbye. 5.5 would have been my max, this way you can still trade him if we are still in this situation 3 years from now. It might be extremely difficult by then.

 

[ACC1224]

You are going to have a very hard time moving Phaneuf in the next 3/4 years if he is the 4th best D on the team. You also might need that money to pay other players like Bernier etc. in those 3 years. Just like Clarkson, how many players may pass him on the depth chart? Phaneuf is not elite, he should not have been locked up as such. If Phaneuf were 22 perhaps, not almost 30 when the rest of the team is severly lacking.
I'm not debating Phaneuf the defenseman. I have my views and respect yours on Phaneuf if you think he is fine as a no. 1.
The salary is the issue for me and that would have been the big goodbye. 5.5 would have been my max, this way you can still trade him if we are still in this situation 3 years from now. It might be extremely difficult by then.

I don't see him being that difficult to move, if need be, and with the cap continuing to rise his salary won't be a hinderance.

IMO, the Team will be in very good shape if he's the 4th best defenseman in a couple years.

 

[Mess]

I don't see him being that difficult to move, if need be, and with the cap continuing to rise his salary won't be a hinderance.

IMO, the Team will be in very good shape if he's the 4th best defenseman in a couple years.

Are these 3 better dmen than Phaneuf going to make more $$ and consume more cap than $7 mil a few years down the road?

So $7 mil cap essentially the #4 best Dman on the team with better Dman higher caps?

Or do you need better Dmen with less cap moving Phaneuf down the depth chart and this making him easier to trade if need be in the future?

 

[Faltorvo]

Are these 3 better dmen than Phaneuf going to make more $$ and consume more cap than $7 mil a few years down the road?

So $7 mil cap essentially the #4 best Dman on the team with better Dman higher caps?

Or do you need better Dmen with less cap moving Phaneuf down the depth chart and this making him easier to trade if need be in the future?

I can't believe I just read the post you quoted from.

That was just pure comedy gold right there. omg

 

[ACC1224]

Are these 3 better dmen than Phaneuf going to make more $$ and consume more cap than $7 mil a few years down the road?

So $7 mil cap essentially the #4 best Dman on the team with better Dman higher caps?

Or do you need better Dmen with less cap moving Phaneuf down the depth chart and this making him easier to trade if need be in the future?

Him being the 4th best dman was someone elses fantasy. I don't believe that will happen but if it did, how would that not be a good thing.

Shouldn't Leaf fans want the Team to get better?