The Blue and White Disease

[ACC1224]

from what I recall, Steeger couldnt leave fast enough. He just didnt fit with the Leafs culture and couldn't cement a definitive role in the top 6.

Sometimes the fit just isnt right, as was the case here...

See that would make sense which is why it doesn't, you need to see what isn't there.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Did it ever occur to you that maybe they weren't in the war room because there was a camera in it?

It's not such a radical thought to think that maybe they didn't want absolutely everything going on that day televised. In fact, it's almost too logical a thought.... so obviously, it will never be considered around here.

If there is such a thing as Blue and White Disease; the fans have it. Following a team that you all constantly moan about; attending games where you don't back the team up. Well... just leave and let people who still back this team up get the seats. Leave this board and let everyone else have intelligent conversations.

Intelligent conversations being equal to opinions you agree with right?

Are the fans the ones being paid inflated salaries to not be an utter embarrassment year in year out? Are the fans the ones responsible for scoring goals and preventing them? Are the fans the ones who decided to buyout Grabovski and use that money to sign Clarkson to 7 year deal? In fact, if you go back and read the original thread, nearly everyone on this board knew that this deal would blow up in Nonis' fat face the minute it was announced. Even fans on a hockey board know more than our experienced (at failing) GM. And you want to blame the fans? L O L.

The fans are the only good thing about this franchise.

 

[yubbers]

Well said

 

[Mach85]

because you naively believe the "kind of evidence" that would satisfy you would find it's way into the light.

That's convenient, that the evidence that would prove what you're masquerading as fact will never come to light. If it's not possible to verify, then don't make claims as to its veracity. Let's deal in fact, not fiction or rampant speculation. That's all I'm asking, and will go a long way to making this a productive conversation.

 

[diceman934]

" I proved the proof for my opinion"... what an absolutely nonsensical statement to make. Hire a proof reader or something, man...

All you proved was that you had an opinion. You didn't prove it was consistent with the history pertaining to his departure.

I made a typo and people who point them out are really not required on here or should be made to correct them all.....you have made several your self and I have never felt the need to point them out!

What I provide was information that backed up my opinion.....Burke stating that he was not fitting in only further's my opinion, as he was not fitting in with his golden boy and that was clear! He was playing on the mostly on the 3rd line when he got traded, and was on a roll....he did have a slow start but was on pace for a career year when he was traded. Just how many players did we have or currently have who put up 35 points in 53 games playing mostly 3rd line minutes!

What was the history pertaining to his departure.....

 

[diceman934]

It was reported that Versteeg asked for a trade, at least that's what I remember hearing.

As to why everyone else in the Leafs managment was not fired along with Burke, I think if it was not for the lockout and when Burke was fired it was a complete shock. Since the 12-13 season was around 10 - 14 days away when he was fired, I think that's why Nonis was promoted to GM and etc.

Your memory in this case is wrong.

Here is a direct quote from Versteeg after he got traded.....
“I tried to play as hard as I could for (the Leafs) every single night,†Versteeg told AM640, the Leafs’ radio rights holder. “Sometimes stuff doesn’t work out for whatever reason.

“It’s not like I asked out of Toronto — I never asked for a trade. I never did anything like that. I did want to stay. But now to go to Philadelphia, I couldn’t be happier in that sense that we got a good chance of having a good playoff run.â€

Here is the link to the article..http://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke..._kris_versteeg_to_flyers_for_draft_picks.html

Reading the article again only furthers my opinion as to why he was traded!

 

[Faltorvo]

That's convenient, that the evidence that would prove what you're masquerading as fact will never come to light. If it's not possible to verify, then don't make claims as to its veracity. Let's deal in fact, not fiction or rampant speculation. That's all I'm asking, and will go a long way to making this a productive conversation.

If you are unaware of the lingering talks that have followed Dion around and you lack the imagination to read between the lines and are unable to figure out 2+#=4.

You should put down your bell/rogers media script for awhile and think for yourself.

 

[ACC1224]

That's convenient, that the evidence that would prove what you're masquerading as fact will never come to light. If it's not possible to verify, then don't make claims as to its veracity. Let's deal in fact, not fiction or rampant speculation. That's all I'm asking, and will go a long way to making this a productive conversation.

There's a irrational hatred of Phanuef by some Leaf fans and others. No proof is needed when you have a slanted view of things.

I've always thought Veersteeg was an idiot, so I can see how he might not fit in. I do realize I could be wrong though.

 

[Darkside Blue]

There's a irrational hatred of Phanuef by some Leaf fans and others. No proof is needed when you have a slanted view of things.

I've always thought Veersteeg was an idiot, so I can see how he might not fit in. I do realize I could be wrong though.

Agreed. Hated watching him skate lazily out of the other team's end, chewing on his mouthguard, seemed like that was all he was good for, most nights.

 

[Mach85]

If you are unaware of the lingering talks that have followed Dion around and you lack the imagination to read between the lines and are unable to figure out 2+#=4.

You should put down your bell/rogers media script for awhile and think for yourself.

Valuing rationality does not equal drinking Rogers' kool aid. I'll gladly admit to a lack of imagination if it means I don't have the tinfoil hat on that you do. Reading between the lines is much different than making up your own story to fit your agenda.

 

[Atomos2]

I'm just rambling here but, Burke hires Allaire - turns out he's a dinosaur, using out-dated methods and the goalies suffer. Then he brings in another dinosaur in Carlyle (after giving his buddy Wilson a nice little retirement package). Hires Dave "the analytics talk doesn't make a lot of sense" Poulin. Gives Cliff "Draft Schmaft" Fletcher some kind of cushy role (senior advisor!?!?)
Burke gets canned and the GM job is just handed over to Nonis.
And we wonder why we're in a mess!?
And that's only been over the last few years!

They show the "war room' during the trade deadline and noone from the Leafs is there. And the players have the country-club atmosphere?! The Blue and White disease starts from the top

Nieuwendyk was smart and got out early

The blue and white disease is in all of us not just the management staff. The fact that we continually support this team despite constant and consistent embarrassing failures again and again can only be described as a sickness. There has been very little accountability with this organization as a whole.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

There's a irrational hatred of Phanuef by some Leaf fans and others. No proof is needed when you have a slanted view of things.

I've always thought Veersteeg was an idiot, so I can see how he might not fit in. I do realize I could be wrong though.

It's not just Leafs fans that dislike Phaneuf or have had heated arguments with him. Ex-teammates in Calgary, former and current players on the Leafs (Clarkson, Kessel, Aulie and Schenn (both rumored)) didn't like him and he's consistently voted the most overrated player in the league.

Low hockey IQ, slow, constant brain farts, half-assed efforts defensively, overpaid. Not irrational at all.

Edit: almost forgot one more thing, wannabe PP QB.

 

[bobber]

The blue and white disease is in all of us not just the management staff. The fact that we continually support this team despite constant and consistent embarrassing failures again and again can only be described as a sickness. There has been very little accountability with this organization as a whole.

Leaf fans are like an old dog the master beats every day and he still comes back wagging his tail. No one in the world has more faith than a Leaf fan.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Your memory in this case is wrong.

Here is a direct quote from Versteeg after he got traded.....
“I tried to play as hard as I could for (the Leafs) every single night,†Versteeg told AM640, the Leafs’ radio rights holder. “Sometimes stuff doesn’t work out for whatever reason.

“It’s not like I asked out of Toronto — I never asked for a trade. I never did anything like that. I did want to stay. But now to go to Philadelphia, I couldn’t be happier in that sense that we got a good chance of having a good playoff run.â€

Here is the link to the article..http://www.thestar.com/sports/hocke..._kris_versteeg_to_flyers_for_draft_picks.html

Reading the article again only furthers my opinion as to why he was traded!

I could have sworn that Brian Burke told the media how he asked for a trade, guess I was wrong.

 

[Durkin67]

I made a typo and people who point them out are really not required on here or should be made to correct them all.....you have made several your self and I have never felt the need to point them out!

What I provide was information that backed up my opinion.....Burke stating that he was not fitting in only further's my opinion, as he was not fitting in with his golden boy and that was clear! He was playing on the mostly on the 3rd line when he got traded, and was on a roll....he did have a slow start but was on pace for a career year when he was traded. Just how many players did we have or currently have who put up 35 points in 53 games playing mostly 3rd line minutes!

What was the history pertaining to his departure.....

This is called a leap in logic. Steve Simmons makes this mistake all the time as well. Are you familiar?

He was not acquired to play third line minutes; he was acquired to provide offense and help instil a winner's attitude within an organization that was absolutely addicted to failure.

He didnt provide enough of what he was acquired for, and was subsequently dealt for that reason, and that reason alone. You can take liberties with history in order to support your opinion, but that doesn't lend credence to it. Frankly, your incessant, semi-fanatical anti-Phaneuf tirades have worn thin, Dice...

 

[Dayjobdave]

The fact that we're engaging in a debate over whether two players on the team had a personality conflict that lead to one being traded is actually evidence that we all suffer from Blue and White disease as well.

In other cities, fans get to watch the players on the ice and they comment on their play. It pretty much ends there. Here, we watch the Leafs like they are our Downton Abby.

We're all guilty.

IMHO it started with Jim Proudfoot's great articles in the Star in the 60's and 70's where he highlighted the person behind the on ice player. Every new Leaf could count on being featured, and he turned every Leaf into a celebrity. Sadly, and unintentionally, he's poisoned us all. :-(

 

[diceman934]

This is called a leap in logic. Steve Simmons makes this mistake all the time as well. Are you familiar?

He was not acquired to play third line minutes; he was acquired to provide offense and help instil a winner's attitude within an organization that was absolutely addicted to failure.

He didnt provide enough of what he was acquired for, and was subsequently dealt for that reason, and that reason alone. You can take liberties with history in order to support your opinion, but that doesn't lend credence to it. Frankly, your incessant, semi-fanatical anti-Phaneuf tirades have worn thin, Dice...

You said that history does not support my claim.....yet when asked you post a personal attack and nothing of substance....are you again going to grade me on my grammar or spelling because that is effective on a sports forum!

You posted nothing....and I posted real information with video and quotes yet I'm the one who is taking liberties. I hate Dion and I make no bones about it....nor deny it! I have posted my reason on here in the past....first hand information about him that makes him a person not worthy to be a Leaf and especially the captain. Hell his own actions this year bear out my opinion about him unless you feel the Captain should leave the ice while a team mate is awaiting a stretcher to take his team mate off the ice, or refusing to speak to the media or perhaps getting into a pissing match with Kessel while on the ice....the guy is low on character!

 

[HABitual Fan]

The fact that we're engaging in a debate over whether two players on the team had a personality conflict that lead to one being traded is actually evidence that we all suffer from Blue and White disease as well.

In other cities, fans get to watch the players on the ice and they comment on their play. It pretty much ends there. Here, we watch the Leafs like they are our Downton Abby.

We're all guilty.

IMHO it started with Jim Proudfoot's great articles in the Star in the 60's and 70's where he highlighted the person behind the on ice player. Every new Leaf could count on being featured, and he turned every Leaf into a celebrity. Sadly, and unintentionally, he's poisoned us all. :-(

Actually how players relate to one another plays a big role in the team game and should interest the fans. If your defenseman dislikes the forwards on the ice is he willing to risk injury blocking a shot after their gaff? If the defense turnover the puck or get caught pinching, how hard do the forwards backcheck to cover for them? If someone roughs up Kessel is Phaneuf the first one in to defend him? How is it on some teams you get near the goalie and get mobbed, and on others you do as you please? Doesn't this play into the opponents willingness to go to the dirty areas? On a recent 24CH Victor Hedman went after one of the forwards, and Douglas Murray got in his face and told him in Swedish that if you go near him again, I will kill you. That only happens if the players actually like each other. Last year it appeared they did, this year it seemed less so, and the results when times get tough reflected it. Sometimes team chemistry plays a bigger role then actual team skill in the overall results.

 

[ACC1224]

Actually how players relate to one another plays a big role in the team game and should interest the fans. If your defenseman dislikes the forwards on the ice is he willing to risk injury blocking a shot after their gaff? If the defense turnover the puck or get caught pinching, how hard do the forwards backcheck to cover for them? If someone roughs up Kessel is Phaneuf the first one in to defend him? How is it on some teams you get near the goalie and get mobbed, and on others you do as you please? Doesn't this play into the opponents willingness to go to the dirty areas? On a recent 24CH Victor Hedman went after one of the forwards, and Douglas Murray got in his face and told him in Swedish that if you go near him again, I will kill you. That only happens if the players actually like each other. Last year it appeared they did, this year it seemed less so, and the results when times get tough reflected it. Sometimes team chemistry plays a bigger role then actual team skill in the overall results.

There is nothing to suggest that the Leaf Players don't like each other.

 

[hotpaws]

There is nothing to suggest that the Leaf Players don't like each other.

There's also nothing to suggest they all get along either .

 

[diceman934]

There is nothing to suggest that the Leaf Players don't like each other.

Not true.....Kessel telling Dion on the ice to shut the F up....is telling as is the rift between Clarkson and Dion....that is just what is out in public.

 

[HABitual Fan]

There is nothing to suggest that the Leaf Players don't like each other.

Of course this is a subjective view without them actually coming out and saying it in public. However the difference between this season and last should be enough of a warning sign. I suggest you watch the playoffs, not at the pure hockey plays, but at the interaction between teammates and the goalies and the defense and tell me that Toronto looked like a cohesive unit like those other teams. Last season they looked like they would die for each other, this season they looked like they just wanted to collect their paychecks.

 

[Durkin67]

You said that history does not support my claim.....yet when asked you post a personal attack and nothing of substance....are you again going to grade me on my grammar or spelling because that is effective on a sports forum!

You posted nothing....and I posted real information with video and quotes yet I'm the one who is taking liberties. I hate Dion and I make no bones about it....nor deny it! I have posted my reason on here in the past....first hand information about him that makes him a person not worthy to be a Leaf and especially the captain. Hell his own actions this year bear out my opinion about him unless you feel the Captain should leave the ice while a team mate is awaiting a stretcher to take his team mate off the ice, or refusing to speak to the media or perhaps getting into a pissing match with Kessel while on the ice....the guy is low on character!

Yeah, OK coach... we are talking about rudimentary communication skills here and nothing more.
You posted opinion about what certain instances imply. Assuming Versteeg's light hearted and very public Dion impressions are directly connected to his trade while ignoring the obvious, being that he couldnt stick and stay in the top six is evidence of nothing but your personal dislike and lack of objectivity. I truly hope this lack of objectivity doesnt filter down into your own coaching experience, for the sake of the kids whose development you are responsible for.

 

[diceman934]

Yeah, OK coach... we are talking about rudimentary communication skills here and nothing more.
You posted opinion about what certain instances imply. Assuming Versteeg's light hearted and very public Dion impressions are directly connected to his trade while ignoring the obvious, being that he couldnt stick and stay in the top six is evidence of nothing but your personal dislike and lack of objectivity. I truly hope this lack of objectivity doesnt filter down into your own coaching experience, for the sake of the kids whose development you are responsible for.

Maybe you should stop worrying about typos etc and stick to content and opinions as that is what this forum is based on.....also look at what you posted.

You really can not help your self....backhanded comments and veiled attempts at personal attacks......I know what I'm doing as a coach, hence the reason why I was paid a lot of money to do so.

I stand by my opinion as to why Versteeg was traded.....he was fitting in nicely and was producing points when he was allowed to play a offensive role....At the time Grabo, Kulemin and C Mac were a very good second line meaning that he only had one spot in the top six available and that was with Kessel and Bozak....Wilson was playing a System that was vast different from the Stanley Cup Championship team that Versteeg had just played for. He was producing very well in the limited amount of time he was used in a offensive role.

35 points in 53 games and was our 5 highest scoring forward at the end of the season despite playing only 2/3 of the season, was on the top PP unit. Not bad for a player who was not fitting in.

 

[Erdinger]

Was it Dion who keyed Versteeg's Audi R8?