Speculation: The big Myth we seem to accept!

[Wafflewhipper]

I see the team building a group that will compete heavily during the build and accepting bad contracts to enhance trade value is not likely in managements plans.

Young and competive over a number of year until the right pieces are together to be a contender is the way i see it being built.

Management wants a quality team through this. They won't be accepting losses but will be trying to win. Learning to win to be more accurate.

Expectations of team quality seem to be to low in that losses are expected. Competiveness will be a priority of the build i suspect.

I think it will be more fun than pain actually.

Click to read more...

 

[TootooTrain]

With all do respect, "learning to win" is just another word for losing. Do I expect them to show more effort than what we saw last season, definitely. That doesn't mean the losses won't likely pile up though. Subsequently not being a whole lot of fun as a whole. If you're just concentrating on the young players and watching them develop regardless of the outcome, then yea there's fun to be had.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

The team will of course play to win and with Babcock here anything else will not be accepted. But there is a big difference building a team that have a good chance of winning now and building a team that because of lack of quality and experience dont win enough yet.

 

[Wafflewhipper]

With all do respect, "learning to win" is just another word for losing. Do I expect them to show more effort than what we saw last season, definitely. That doesn't mean the losses won't likely pile up though. Subsequently not being a whole lot of fun as a whole. If you're just concentrating on the young players and watching them develop regardless of the outcome, then yea there's fun to be had.

Babs being the coach beckons a sense this will be a high possession team wouldn't you agree? We all know the spin-off of possession teams. Just saying.

 

[Phatic]

based on whats been communicated to the public thus far my best guess for the offseason:

1) pass on most things july 1st, make one big summer move
2) after the prospects camp decide that none of the youngsters deserve a shot and pick up some scrapes to fill out the roster, thus maintaining the status quo
3) start the year with 5/6 top forwards already in place, the same d roster and the bottom 6 filled out with FA left overs.

 

[TootooTrain]

Babs being the coach beckons a sense this will be a high possession team wouldn't you agree? We all know the spin-off of possession teams. Just saying.

Horachek was a pronounced user of a possession system. You have to have to right horses in the stable in order to utilize it. It will take a few years to perfect it.

 

[MapleLife*]

I wanna tank hard.

 

[Mess]

The Leafs will have difficulty dealing players and getting a good return so they wont deal them.

Will be looking at UFA to add to the team current talent.

With Babcock coaching the Leafs will finish outside the top 10 but will be desiring to draft rebuild without those top picks.

The hybrid rebuild is in effect or as the past regime called it retooling on the fly the only difference being Leafs will not be trading away top picks for instant help unless the right players are available. Most importantly Leafs with Hunter scouting believe they will be able to unearth talent in all rounds of the draft not just the 1st round.

 

[Daisy Jane]

The Leafs will have difficulty dealing players and getting a good return so they wont deal them.

Will be looking a UFA to add to the team current talent.

With Babcock coaching the Leafs will finish outside the top 10 but will be desiring to draft rebuild without top picks.

The hybrid rebuild is in effect or as the past regime called it retooling on the fly the only difference being Leafs will not be trading away top picks for instant help unless the right players are available. Most importantly Leafs with Hunter scouting believe they will be able to unearth talent in all runds of the draft not just the 1st round.

stop trying to make hybrid rebuild a thing.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Horachek was a pronounced user of a possession system. You have to have to right horses in the stable in order to utilize it. It will take a few years to perfect it.

Yup, Peter "Took the panthers to Ekblad and took the leafs to Marner" Horachek is a good judge of what this team can do in a possession system.

His system sucks.

 

[TootooTrain]

Yup, Peter "Took the panthers to Ekblad and took the leafs to Marner" Horachek is a good judge of what this team can do in a possession system.

His system sucks.

I didn't say it was good.

 

[Kamal007]

What this team lacks is top-end talent. Talent up the middle, talent on the blue line. You get that at the top of the draft. Every indication from Shanny, Babcock, Hunter and Dubas is that we will be trying to acquire this talent at the top of the draft. Until Shanny and company makes moves to indicate other wise, I will take their word for it that "pain is coming".

Lets be reality for a minute, it would be a real problem if these guys actually think there is enough talent here to win anything, with or without babcock. This team needs top 5 talent for at least 2-3 years. The best way to get that? Finish dead last in the standings and ensure at WORST you get 4th overall, with the best odds at 1st.

 

[Mess]

stop trying to make hybrid rebuild a thing.

I'm not trying but as long as Leafs don't trade away their vets as Bob McKenzie has stated a hybrid rebuild is the sense he is getting from Leafs camp now that Babcock is here.

What are you going to call it if Phil and Dion are still here next year and Leafs go UFA shopping signing players like Franson to term and dollars and fill roster spots with more vets?

 

[BackHandShelf22]

I'm not trying but as long as Leafs don't trade away their vets as Bob McKenzie has stated a hybrid rebuild is the sense he is getting from Leafs camp now that Babcock is here.

What are you going to call it if Phil and Dion are still here next year and Leafs go UFA shopping signing players like Franson to term and dollars and fill roster spots with more vets?

All of this, the former and latter comments, is speculation. Bob observes that Kessel and Dion are still leafs at this point (which is fine) and comes to the conclusion that this "could be" a hybrid.

I fully expect them to sign a vet or two to fill a specific role on relatively short term so that they can parlay them into more assets down the road.

Again, the team has seen multiple bottom 10 finishes with the players you mentioned. Why has that changed after Babcock has coached a whopping 0 games in toronto.

Nothing has changed until it does. Fairly simple.

 

[LV*]

I wanna tank hard.

Me too, at least one more year. Pick up Chychrun.

 

[Metal God]

stop trying to make hybrid rebuild a thing.

Exactly. This was just speculated by Bob McKenzie. The rest of the media just flew with it.

No one knows for sure.

 

[Budsfan]

I'm not trying but as long as Leafs don't trade away their vets as Bob McKenzie has stated a hybrid rebuild is the sense he is getting from Leafs camp now that Babcock is here.

What are you going to call it if Phil and Dion are still here next year and Leafs go UFA shopping signing players like Franson to term and dollars and fill roster spots with more vets?

Babcock has stated, that his teams do not tank and Playing Kessel and Phanuef next year, if a trade is not made, doesn't mean they are not going to rebuild but this is going to be a long and slow process.

Winning is an attitude that Babcock and Shanahan want to instill in their players and as they deal out the older players, they want the young players they bring up to have the same values and winning attitude.

I agree it's not going to be a Scorched Earth Rebuild but I guess what your saying a Hybrid Rebuild.

 

[Stephen]

If they go with a hybrid rebuild, that is basically just P.R. speak to describe other management teams trying to low ball us on our unwanted but better assets.

 

[Mess]

Babcock has stated, that his teams do not tank and Playing Kessel and Phanuef next year, if a trade is not made, doesn't mean they are not going to rebuild but this is going to be a long and slow process.

Winning is an attitude that Babcock and Shanahan want to instill in their players and as they deal out the older players, they want the young players they bring up to have the same values and winning attitude.

I agree it's not going to be a Scorched Earth Rebuild but I guess what your saying a Hybrid Rebuild.

If you keep Kessel and he goes out and scores 35-40 goals under Babcock then Leafs will win games. If Bob McKenzie is right Leafs are not actively shopping Phaneuf as Babcock would like to work with him, so essentially don't just give him away, then Leafs are going to win games.. If Bernier returns to form and Leafs play a better possession system then Leafs are going to win even more games.

The more games you win the weaker your draft position becomes as you are no longer adding top 5 picks level prospects your picking in the teens instead.

The less players you move because their values are low and the return offers match that the more you move towards a hybrid rebuild and not a desired scorched earth and draft rebuild.

If Leafs go out tomorrow and offer Franson a 6 year by $6 mil deal (as rumoured) then again that is not what a draft rebuild plan would do.

Until we actually see Phil and Dion moved and as Shanny said in his PC after the draft we are comfortable starting next year with them then fans have to accept Hybrid rebuild and not building this team with top 5 picks in the next few years.

 

[Daisy Jane]

If you keep Kessel and he goes out and scores 35-40 goals under Babcock then Leafs will win games. If Bob McKenzie is right Leafs are not actively shopping Phaneuf as Babcock would like to work with him, so essentially don't just give him away, then Leafs are going to win games.. If Bernier returns to form and Leafs play a better possession system then Leafs are going to win even more games.

The more games you win the weaker your draft position becomes as you are no longer adding top 5 picks level prospects your picking in the teens instead.

The less players you move because their values are low and the return offers match that the more you move towards a hybrid rebuild and not a desired scorched earth and draft rebuild.

If Leafs go out tomorrow and offer Franson a 6 year by $6 mil deal (as rumoured) then again that is not what a draft rebuild plan would do.

Until we actually see Phil and Dion moved and as Shanny said in his PC after the draft we are comfortable starting next year with them then fans have to accept Hybrid rebuild and not building this team with top 5 picks in the next few years.

When the Leafs traded Franson, he was offered (as rumoured) a 4x4 contract.
Why would our capologist (doing the negotiations), then turn around, and go "hey let me offer you more money and more term).

just because it doesn't happen when you want it to, doesn't mean it's not happening.

 

[Drew75]

If you keep Kessel and he goes out and scores 35-40 goals under Babcock then Leafs will win games. If Bob McKenzie is right Leafs are not actively shopping Phaneuf as Babcock would like to work with him, so essentially don't just give him away, then Leafs are going to win games.. If Bernier returns to form and Leafs play a better possession system then Leafs are going to win even more games.

The more games you win the weaker your draft position becomes as you are no longer adding top 5 picks level prospects your picking in the teens instead.

The less players you move because their values are low and the return offers match that the more you move towards a hybrid rebuild and not a desired scorched earth and draft rebuild.

If Leafs go out tomorrow and offer Franson a 6 year by $6 mil deal (as rumoured) then again that is not what a draft rebuild plan would do.

Until we actually see Phil and Dion moved and as Shanny said in his PC after the draft we are comfortable starting next year with them then fans have to accept Hybrid rebuild and not building this team with top 5 picks in the next few years.

I could see this kind of talk in August if nothing happens .. but I'm actually surprised to see this much of it PRIOR TO JULY 1st! (especially from people who preach patience!)

All of this is from the ABSENCE of news, which is creating guesses and speculation from the media. Shanny and Co. have not gone back on anything they said they would do yet. This is all BS because a) they didn't EA Sports this sucker, and b) the media doesn't know what's going on, so it's making up guesses.

So far Shanny and Co. have done EVERYTHING they have claimed they would. They said they wanted to change the thinking and management group - done. They said they wanted to be patient, that they wouldn't 'give' players away - so far, so good. They said they wanted to get Hunter more picks, and to shoot for high end skill with those picks - done. They said that they would look at any avenue to bring in talent, with Hyman, and they've even been courting a Russian UFA 1 year in advance so that when there's a market we're first in line - done.

They said the core needs to change - and I believe it will. They never said they would change it by July 1st!
They said there would be pain - and I expect there will be.

I really think we should at least give them until the END of the offseason to judge what the team looks like, etc.

 

[Budsfan]

If you keep Kessel and he goes out and scores 35-40 goals under Babcock then Leafs will win games. If Bob McKenzie is right Leafs are not actively shopping Phaneuf as Babcock would like to work with him, so essentially don't just give him away, then Leafs are going to win games.. If Bernier returns to form and Leafs play a better possession system then Leafs are going to win even more games.

The more games you win the weaker your draft position becomes as you are no longer adding top 5 picks level prospects your picking in the teens instead.

The less players you move because their values are low and the return offers match that the more you move towards a hybrid rebuild and not a desired scorched earth and draft rebuild.

If Leafs go out tomorrow and offer Franson a 6 year by $6 mil deal (as rumoured) then again that is not what a draft rebuild plan would do.

Until we actually see Phil and Dion moved and as Shanny said in his PC after the draft we are comfortable starting next year with them then fans have to accept Hybrid rebuild and not building this team with top 5 picks in the next few years.

Well if this past draft was any indication, Hunter and Shanahan cared little about where they picked and it was in evidence, by trading the Leaf's out of the first round after picking Marner, the second pick at #24 was traded then the 29th pick was traded and we ended up with 2 seconds and a third.

If Kessel and Dion play well and too all the other players, it will increase the return for them and will in turn give us more picks which seem to be the name of the game now for the rebuild and if you get Franson back he too can get us as we know a 1st round pick and possibly more.

Having a good team seems, that if you can draft good players with later picks as Hunter did you have the best of two worlds by having a hockey team that plays well and will get better going forward.

 

[Mess]

When the Leafs traded Franson, he was offered (as rumoured) a 4x4 contract.
Why would our capologist (doing the negotiations), then turn around, and go "hey let me offer you more money and more term).

just because it doesn't happen when you want it to, doesn't mean it's not happening.

Lets see what happens .. Here is Shanny and Bob McKenzie comments from this last weekend.

Now we’re headed into free agency and the biggest question mark surrounding the Leafs core group is management willing to retain salary? Toronto is said to be willing to take significant contracts back in deals to alleviate difficulty in fitting Kessel’s $8 Million or Phaneuf’s $7 Million salary, but is adamant about not retaining a percentage of their salaries.

It’s been widely reported that Gm’s interested in acquiring Kessel’s services have put forward low ball offers to the young Toronto staff and there may be a possibility the Leafs enter training camp with Phil the thrill still on the roster. This is what Shanahan had to say;

“We had some talks, there were some discussions that were initiated here on the floor with teams that are still alive and they were under no rush, we were under no rush.†Shanahan said on Saturday. “Nothing materialized that we thought was going to benefit the Leafs in any way. We will see where we are in the next month or two and if we have to come to camp (not getting) everything done that we wanted to get done, that's fine as well.â€

TSN’s Bob Mckenzie reported the Leafs may be willing to enter a “Hybrid rebuild†and retain some of their core group. There’s no secret Coach Mike Babcock would welcome Phaneuf back to the blue line. Bozak may be on that list as well, not because Babcock has interest it’s because the market for Bozak seems to be quite thin. Shanny was shopping Bozak for picks in the deep draft but couldn’t find any suitors for the 29 year old.

 

[slozo]

I'm not trying but as long as Leafs don't trade away their vets as Bob McKenzie has stated a hybrid rebuild is the sense he is getting from Leafs camp now that Babcock is here.

What are you going to call it if Phil and Dion are still here next year and Leafs go UFA shopping signing players like Franson to term and dollars and fill roster spots with more vets?

But it's not next year. Today is June 30th, the day before free agency, and we're only a couple of weeks into a long off-season.

For a guy who often preached patience . . . you don't seem to have much.

 

[slozo]

I could see this kind of talk in August if nothing happens .. but I'm actually surprised to see this much of it PRIOR TO JULY 1st! (especially from people who preach patience!)

All of this is from the ABSENCE of news, which is creating guesses and speculation from the media. Shanny and Co. have not gone back on anything they said they would do yet. This is all BS because a) they didn't EA Sports this sucker, and b) the media doesn't know what's going on, so it's making up guesses.

So far Shanny and Co. have done EVERYTHING they have claimed they would. They said they wanted to change the thinking and management group - done. They said they wanted to be patient, that they wouldn't 'give' players away - so far, so good. They said they wanted to get Hunter more picks, and to shoot for high end skill with those picks - done. They said that they would look at any avenue to bring in talent, with Hyman, and they've even been courting a Russian UFA 1 year in advance so that when there's a market we're first in line - done.

They said the core needs to change - and I believe it will. They never said they would change it by July 1st!
They said there would be pain - and I expect there will be.

I really think we should at least give them until the END of the offseason to judge what the team looks like, etc.

This is perfectly summed up, thank-you.