News Article: The Athletic: Mitch Marner's re-emergence alongside Nazem Kadri makes the Leafs scary again

[ToneDog]

It does look like the “move Komarov to the 4th line crow” was proven 100% correct.

Kadri thrives with skilled guys - never understood why some folks thought that wouldn’t be the case. The Kadri-Marner duo looks so lethal out there.

Leo kills offence. Now he is doing it to Kappy

 

[hotpaws]

Now only if we can get Babcock to put someone else instead of Hyman beside Matthews and Nylander..

lol , now you've gone too far

i've learned from Babs and from his supporters the only way to build a successful line is gluing an unskilled energy player to 2 skilled players , any other way and the line would be a disaster

and i'm going to ignore all the lines that are very successful without a Hyman type player on it because i've been told Babs is perfect and that even if some of his moves are very questionable it's all part of some grand master plan or something like that

 

[Daisy Jane]

It does look like the “move Komarov to the 4th line crowd” was proven 100% correct.

Kadri thrives with skilled guys - never understood why some folks thought that wouldn’t be the case. The Kadri-Marner duo looks so lethal out there.

or you know. Kadri + Marner's shooting percentage has gone up and they are consistent again?
no one was "proven" 100% right. Kadri was on fire (playing with Leo) in October-November.
I don't really care where Leo plays but saying this was the trigger is kind of erroneous i think

 

[FlareKnight]

lol , now you've gone too far

i've learned from Babs and from his supporters the only way to build a successful line is gluing an unskilled energy player to 2 skilled players , any other way and the line would be a disaster

and i'm going to ignore all the lines that are very successful without a Hyman type player on it because i've been told Babs is perfect and that even if some of his moves are very questionable it's all part of some grand master plan or something like that

Well I think your first problem is thinking that Hyman is a Komarov or Martin. He's 8th on the team in scoring (be it points or goals). He sure as heck isn't as skilled as the guys he is playing with. But he is doing a lot better this year in not being an anchor while providing what they primarily want him to do on that line.

I didn't want Hyman on that line to begin with. But it's fair to re-assess him at the very least up from a unskilled player. He isn't a highly skilled player, but he is very much skilled enough to produce. Which is different from a Komarov who can't produce even when you put him with some talented guys.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

or you know. Kadri + Marner's shooting percentage has gone up and they are consistent again?
no one was "proven" 100% right. Kadri was on fire (playing with Leo) in October-November.
I don't really care where Leo plays but saying this was the trigger is kind of erroneous i think

nope, it's quite obvious Marner is a better offensive linemate than Komarov. The subtle part is that Marner is actually also a better defensive linemate since he can get the puck out of his end

 

[LeafingTheWay]

"Don't touch what already works". But here's a thought, I think we should trade Bozak and replace him internally through Marleau swtiching to C (even though he may not prefer that). Gives everyone that matters more time to play:

Hyman - Matthews - Nylander
Kapanen* - Kadri - Marner
JVR - Marleau - Brown
Komarov - Moore - Soshnikov/Leivo

 

[Ziggdiezan]

I would wager that since the line changes Kadri's line has seen increased use in the offensive zone with more defensive starts for the 4th line. Maybe a little more defensive starts for the Bozak line too

 

[1specter]

or you know. Kadri + Marner's shooting percentage has gone up and they are consistent again?
no one was "proven" 100% right. Kadri was on fire (playing with Leo) in October-November.
I don't really care where Leo plays but saying this was the trigger is kind of erroneous i think

Nah, Kadri and Marner generate scoring chances at a very high rate together. It is even visible as you watch the games, they both slow the game down and create quality changec every game. It's not fair to just chalk it up to shooting % alone though you are correct that would've rebounded eventually.

 

[hotpaws]

Well I think your first problem is thinking that Hyman is a Komarov or Martin. He's 8th on the team in scoring (be it points or goals). He sure as heck isn't as skilled as the guys he is playing with. But he is doing a lot better this year in not being an anchor while providing what they primarily want him to do on that line.

I didn't want Hyman on that line to begin with. But it's fair to re-assess him at the very least up from a unskilled player. He isn't a highly skilled player, but he is very much skilled enough to produce. Which is different from a Komarov who can't produce even when you put him with some talented guys.

maybe Hyman isn't Komo but guaranteed Mathews/Nylander aren't Kadri/Marleau

also according to Mavis and others we aren't allowed to assess or re-assess , we're only allowed to blindly follow whatever decisions the coach/mgmt make

 

[Daisy Jane]

nope, it's quite obvious Marner is a better offensive linemate than Komarov. The subtle part is that Marner is actually also a better defensive linemate since he can get the puck out of his end

I didn't say he was or wasn't.
but as was pointed out. Naz had a career high point streak - playing with leo. then Naz's shooting percentage took a massive dump. saying it's all leo's fault when Naz had a crap month and naz is "dangerous" because he's with skill, is wrong, I feel.

Naz is dangerous when he's consistent, and I think throughout his career we've seen his shooting percentage/productivity ebb and flow regardless of whom he he plays with. Now does this give Naz another dimension? of course, but it wouldn't shock me one iota if say this line is ready to go for x amount of games next season and Naz struggles again.

 

[therealkoho]

I remember the good ol days when Savard carried Kessel and then Kessel carried Bozak...now everything has changed, now we talk about who drags who down

 

[Superstar]

I remember the good ol days when Savard carried Kessel and then Kessel carried Bozak...now everything has changed, now we talk about who drags who down

Remember that clearly..."Kessel can't score without Savard..." ridiculous.

 

[Jeypic]

Been saying Babcock has been running lines to bolster defense over offense and help slow down their production for contractual / disciplinary type reasons since near the start of the season.

Many benefits to doing it the way he did.

1) player development. Keep things consistent. Let marner, Matthews and nylander battle through sophomore years where their opponents have coached against them. Teach them to evolve. Find new ways to succeed... which usually starts with defense/getting the puck. Move them around based on performance but don’t introduce to much change. They have enough things to work on. Promote doing it the right way. If all of this leads them to have slower production in their contract years... bonus. If we win the cup though, I don’t think we’ll mind paying them either.

2) prospect development. Dermott and kapanen really had to take jobs away from people. You can’t just give someone’s spot to someone else on a hunch... they’ve got to be able to play consistently better every shift. Not just show better potential skillsets. That means hard work ethic was used to earn those positions, success right out the gates gives these rookies confirmation in that process working, and less roadbumps attacking their confidence and progression now. If this means players like Martin and polack are around to give our young team a bit more time to grow up, the added muscle doesn’t hurt.

3) coaching. We’ve hidden our cards before playoffs, we’ve also established lines like jvr bozack marner that we can keep in our back pocket for whenever we see fit. For now, teams have been gameplanning against it for a bit too long though and it’s time to establish new chemistry we can use for these playoffs.

4) asset management. we really see what we have before trade deadline. By that time I expect management will have the information needed to come up with a good idea of what they want to do with jvr, komarov, leivo, soshnikov and everyone else.

 

[Menzinger]

I didn't say he was or wasn't.
but as was pointed out. Naz had a career high point streak - playing with leo. then Naz's shooting percentage took a massive dump. saying it's all leo's fault when Naz had a crap month and naz is "dangerous" because he's with skill, is wrong, I feel.

Naz is dangerous when he's consistent, and I think throughout his career we've seen his shooting percentage/productivity ebb and flow regardless of whom he he plays with. Now does this give Naz another dimension? of course, but it wouldn't shock me one iota if say this line is ready to go for x amount of games next season and Naz struggles again.

Obviously every player will have some ebb and flow with hot and cold Streaks, but Leo has been consistently poor offensively this season (even comparing his current level of play to his previous seasons he’s not as effective offensively). Imo Kadris earlier hot streak was in spite of leo rather than because of him.

I think the Marner + kadri pairing will be a formula for more more consistency in this regard.

 

[The List Of Jericho]

Mitch Marner's re-emergence alongside Nazem Kadri makes the...

If you haven't subscribed to the Athletic, I recommend it, I never imagined paying for this stuff but it's been very enjoyable. Some pretty interesting analysis and since I can't share the entire article, this part stuck out to me.

If Bozak can't drive the play more and be more of a threat then that is something to consider moving forward, although it's doubtful at this time we can do anything to address it. Still, I feel good about lines 1,2 and 4.

Considering the fact that both will not likely be back next year it's a good sign. Heck, I'm still on board for trading JVR for futures instead of letting him walk for nothing. I doubt we would feel a huge difference with Leivo in for him.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Nah, Kadri and Marner generate scoring chances at a very high rate together. It is even visible as you watch the games, they both slow the game down and create quality changec every game. It's not fair to just chalk it up to shooting % alone though you are correct that would've rebounded eventually.

and yet. generally speaking a lot of Naz's lulls are directly about his shooting percentage. I'm not taking it as a shot on him. geeze.

his first season everything Naz shot was like gold. next season he was fine. season after that it was in the toilet. last season, 30+ goal scorer. this year. spotchy. Like i'm not dismissing that Naz is a good play, I'm not saying he + Mitch don't look good together (they do), I'm not saying I want Leo back there (i don't).

all I am saying that a majority of this turn around would have happened if he stuck with Leo as a line mate (as once again his career high scoring streak was with Leo) or went with Mitch because both Mitch and Naz's shooting percentage went up. (I do find it hilarious lol not a shot at you or anything - but like the one thing I can argue reasonably well advance statistically, everyone wants to be all NAWW it doesn't matter).

 

[Daisy Jane]

Obviously every player will have some ebb and flow with hot and cold Streaks, but Leo has been consistently poor offensively this season (even comparing his current level of play to his previous seasons he’s not as effective offensively). Imo Kadris earlier hot streak was in spite of leo rather than because of him.

I think the Marner + kadri pairing will be a formula for more more consistency in this regard.

Naz's hot streak was in spite of Leo
then quite frankly, Naz'z turn around is in spite of Mitch.

Naz's shooting % leveled out, and Mitch shook out of his sophomore issues.
but whatever. if we must say that obviously this is because they are playing together than fine. it's because of that.

 

[Menzinger]

Naz's hot streak was in spite of Leo
then quite frankly, Naz'z turn around is in spite of Mitch.

Naz's shooting % leveled out, and Mitch shook out of his sophomore issues.
but whatever. if we must say that obviously this is because they are playing together than fine. it's because of that.

Yes part of this improvement will be the result of individual factors a (ie shaking off bad puck-luck) but we also shouldn’t be dismissive of linemates here.

We know linemates impact things like each other’s scoring chances, shot generation, ect. Ie Nylander and Matthews perform at much higher rates when they are together than apart. The same likely will prove true for Marner-Kadri especially if they keep playing together over an extended period.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Yes part of this improvement will be the result of individual factors a (ie shaking off bad puck-luck) but we also shouldn’t be dismissive of linemates here.

We know linemates impact things like each other’s scoring chances, shot generation, ect. Ie Nylander and Matthews perform at much higher rates when they are together than apart. The same likely will prove true for Marner-Kadri especially if they keep playing together over an extended period.

okay that's fair. but then to say that Naz's streak was in spite of Leo.. isn't that being dismissive too
like i said.I'm not making it that i want leo back, or that Mitch/Kadri/Marleau aren't a better fit (whom we're ignoring too i feel). I just feel like this is more of them coming back to normal vs "oho look let's just dismiss everything Leo" (which i think is wrong) because for 1.5 years Leo + Naz played together and Naz did just fine. so it can't be "dismiss Leo, accept Mitch" here.

 

[Muston Atthews]

The London connection always made sense. Marleau looks rejuvenated too

 

[Polaris1010]

lol , now you've gone too far

i've learned from Babs and from his supporters the only way to build a successful line is gluing an unskilled energy player to 2 skilled players , any other way and the line would be a disaster

and i'm going to ignore all the lines that are very successful without a Hyman type player on it because i've been told Babs is perfect and that even if some of his moves are very questionable it's all part of some grand master plan or something like that

People won't take seriously.

Leafs coaches since Pat Quinn, all wanted to ice 4 lines.

Wilson, he probably only had 1½ lines. Carlyle 2½ lines. Babcock before the tank, 1½ lines.

No one is going back to those days. Ice 4 lines if you can.

Right now, no checking line.

The top 6, whoever plays there, is good.

The bottom 6, they probably will cost the Leafs a playoffs series if they get that far.

That is the bottom line, and that is what Babcock is aiming for. He does not have a favourite player on the team. He benched Martin.

This team is good, but it is not a complete team. Trying to balance out the lines in an effort to make it a complete team, only invites ridicule from segments of the fan base.

 

[Menzinger]

okay that's fair. but then to say that Naz's streak was in spite of Leo.. isn't that being dismissive too
like i said.I'm not making it that i want leo back, or that Mitch/Kadri/Marleau aren't a better fit (whom we're ignoring too i feel). I just feel like this is more of them coming back to normal vs "oho look let's just dismiss everything Leo" (which i think is wrong) because for 1.5 years Leo + Naz played together and Naz did just fine. so it can't be "dismiss Leo, accept Mitch" here.

I think his streak was in spite of Leo because his numbers are down considerably from last seasons (on pace for just 20 points). I really don’t think it’s unreasonable to suggest he hasn’t exactly helped out Kadri much in the offensive zone (and likely part of the reason why Babcock opted to drop him down to the 4th line). Leo-Kadri pairing did work in the past, but it’s not at the present.

I’m not suggesting Leo was 100% of the reason behind Kadris slump (as you mentioned earlier, some individual factors like puck luck definitely part of the issue), but having a more skilled linemate in his place will give Kadri more options when he’s looking to generate offense which will help boost his numbers. It also helps that (at least to the eye test) that Kadri-Marner have better chemistry with one another in the O-zone.

 

[ULF_55]

Mitch Marner's re-emergence alongside Nazem Kadri makes the...

If you haven't subscribed to the Athletic, I recommend it, I never imagined paying for this stuff but it's been very enjoyable. Some pretty interesting analysis and since I can't share the entire article, this part stuck out to me.

If Bozak can't drive the play more and be more of a threat then that is something to consider moving forward, although it's doubtful at this time we can do anything to address it. Still, I feel good about lines 1,2 and 4.

Well there is only 1 Marner so either he offensively carries the Kadri line or the Bozak line.

 

[hotpaws]

People won't take seriously.

Leafs coaches since Pat Quinn, all wanted to ice 4 lines.

Wilson, he probably only had 1½ lines. Carlyle 2½ lines. Babcock before the tank, 1½ lines.

No one is going back to those days. Ice 4 lines if you can.

Right now, no checking line.

The top 6, whoever plays there, is good.

The bottom 6, they probably will cost the Leafs a playoffs series if they get that far.

That is the bottom line, and that is what Babcock is aiming for. He does not have a favourite player on the team. He benched Martin.

This team is good, but it is not a complete team. Trying to balance out the lines in an effort to make it a complete team, only invites ridicule from segments of the fan base.

we have plenty of options to try to ice 4 solid lines without gluing Hyman to Mathews , Babs just refuses to explore them and every knows who is by far his favorite player lol

but then again who are we to discuss/assess what Babcocks intentions are since according to Mavis we're no where near qualified enough to have an opinion how on this team is coached/managed

 

[thewave]

Not really. Marner makes the line stronger defensively

There is no difference. He makes it more of an offensive threat and that't about it which I guess in a round about way helps them defensively.