The Armchair GM Thread - LXXXIV

[ugghhh]

There are actually people who wouldn't trade Jensen for Ellis? Seriously?

That trade would be outright highway robbery.

Right now, maybe. But there's no way you trade Jensen right now for 'fair market value'
There are many examples of euro snipers/scorers who don't excel until they are a little bit older -- just in vancouver, we've had Grabner, the Sedins and Naslund.

Jensen did very well in the SHL, and his transition to the NA game hasn't been great.. but there's no real deficiencies to his game that are stopping him from being a top-6 winger in the NHL, and as a 6'3, 200lb RW sniper if he gets there, he's a very valuable piece.

I'm also skeptical Ellis ever becomes more than a #4 dman/PPQB. And given the way the NHL is trending, I don't think his value will ever be that great unless he is a bonafide top pairing guy.

Obviously Ellis is the better fit right now given our need for a RH PPQB, but the Canucks shouldn't be making 'win now' trades.

I'd consider this trade, but it's far from a 'no-brainer' imo.

 

[Canucker]

Is Nashville actually shopping Ellis, or is this pipe dreaming?

 

[ugghhh]

Is Nashville actually shopping Ellis, or is this pipe dreaming?

They're reportedly having troubles with contract negotiations, and as a RHD he's likely behind Weber and Jones moving forward.

He's not likely to get PP time, which is how he'll improve his value, so that's probably one of the reasons he doesn't want to sign a cheaper bridge contract.

 

[Rey]

Didn't people give up on Ellis last year and said he's a 5/6 PP guy at best? Why is he suddenly a top 4 guy now? Reminds me a lot of Michael Del Zotto, except with more fiestiness which is good, but probably not good enough.

Nashville would be smart to get some value for him. I'd stay away cause you already got a guy who's probably better or around the same in Yannick Weber.

I don't like Defense man who are small. I really don't like defense man who are small and slow.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Didn't people give up on Ellis last year and said he's a 5/6 PP guy at best? Why is he suddenly a top 4 guy now? Reminds me a lot of Michael Del Zotto, except with more fiestiness which is good, but probably not good enough.

Nashville would be smart to get some value for him. I'd stay away cause you already got a guy who's probably better or around the same in Yannick Weber.

I don't like Defense man who are small. I really don't like defense man who are small and slow.

Fair points, but it all comes down to cost. Jensen is an adequate price to pay.

Also, Weber is not in the same league as far as thinking the game offensively. They have similar toolsets, but Ellis play like a true QB.

 

[Rey]

Fair points, but it all comes down to cost. Jensen is an adequate price to pay.

Also, Weber is not in the same league as far as thinking the game offensively. They have similar toolsets, but Ellis play like a true QB.

I disagree. Ellis is too slow to true QB.

 

[Bleach Clean]

I disagree. Ellis is too slow to true QB.

He still plays like a true QB. He thinks the game like one. His physical limitations hold him back from becoming a top end QB, but the requisite offensive IQ is there.

For Weber, it isn't.

 

[Canucker]

I disagree. Ellis is too slow to true QB.

Speed isn't a requirement of being a QB.

 

[Rey]

He still plays like a true QB. He thinks the game like one. His physical limitations hold him back from becoming a top end QB, but the requisite offensive IQ is there.

For Weber, it isn't.

It's not his physical tools holding him back. It's his speed. Torey Krug is a true QB.

 

[Rey]

Speed isn't a requirement of being a QB.

There is a difference between a QB and a guy on the PP.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Ellis may not be the fastest skater but if he can transition the puck quickly with superior passing skills he could fit into Big Willie's desired system.

 

[Canucker]

There is a difference between a QB and a guy on the PP.

Ok, sure....and speed isn't a requirement for either.

 

[CherryToke]

you don't need quick skating to be an effective PP QB. you need quick decision making, passing, and a quick release. Ellis has all of those. you need quick skating if your passes get picked off often

 

[Rey]

Ok, sure....and speed isn't a requirement for either.

Nothing is a requirement for anything but its the difference between being good or bad.

 

[Rey]

you don't need quick skating to be an effective PP QB. you need quick decision making, passing, and a quick release. Ellis has all of those. you need quick skating if your passes get picked off often

Nashville wishes that Ellis had all of those. The guy plays protected minutes, and isn't even on the top PP on his team, in fact he's barley holding on to his 2PP unit minutes.

This reminds me of last year when i had the same discussion about MDZ. A year later, he could barley find a NHL job while those posters still think MDZ is a top 4 PPQB. This isn't the same competition that Ellis played in Windsor, with Taylor Hall. The fact that Ellis is holding out is absurd to begin with, the guy has no leverage.

 

[biturbo19]

Fair points, but it all comes down to cost. Jensen is an adequate price to pay.

Also, Weber is not in the same league as far as thinking the game offensively. They have similar toolsets, but Ellis play like a true QB.

Yeah. Weber is really not that great of a PP QB, nor is he a super effective puck mover in transition 5v5.

Ellis may be another small RHD, but he has a substantially higher level of offensive ability.

I disagree. Ellis is too slow to true QB.

What does his speed really have to do with that?

Ellis isn't a great skater, especially for a small guy. But he moves the puck plenty quickly with his passing ability. You're never going to outskate the puck.

I do think that between his small stature and the lack of elite skating, Ellis at the NHL level is probably always limited to something of a "PP Specialist" sort of role, ideally in that #5 slot, or a similar role where you can keep him a bit sheltered. Maybe a guy who can play top-4 volume of minutes if we're talking about an offensive role with softer minutes.

I was never a huge fan of Ellis' pro upside at the draft, but that is a niche we really don't have a fill for. And if the price were right, it would probably be a huge boon to our powerplay in particular. He's exactly what we're lacking there.

 

[Rey]

Yeah. Weber is really not that great of a PP QB, nor is he a super effective puck mover in transition 5v5.

Ellis may be another small RHD, but he has a substantially higher level of offensive ability.



What does his speed really have to do with that?

Ellis isn't a great skater, especially for a small guy. But he moves the puck plenty quickly with his passing ability. You're never going to outskate the puck.

I do think that between his small stature and the lack of elite skating, Ellis at the NHL level is probably always limited to something of a "PP Specialist" sort of role, ideally in that #5 slot, or a similar role where you can keep him a bit sheltered. Maybe a guy who can play top-4 volume of minutes if we're talking about an offensive role with softer minutes.

I was never a huge fan of Ellis' pro upside at the draft, but that is a niche we really don't have a fill for. And if the price were right, it would probably be a huge boon to our powerplay in particular. He's exactly what we're lacking there.

I rather give Corrado a shot than pay for a guy with limited upside.

 

[y2kcanucks]

Speed isn't a requirement of being a QB.

You're arguing with someone who guaranteed Patrick White would be the Canucks top center by now.

I will say this though, while speed isn't a requirement to be a PP QB, I do want someone who has some speed to be on the point. As we've seen with Edler back there at times, if teams can chip it by him we're prone to giving up shorthanded chances.

 

[Canucker]

Nashville wishes that Ellis had all of those. The guy plays protected minutes, and isn't even on the top PP on his team, in fact he's barley holding on to his 2PP unit minutes.

This reminds me of last year when i had the same discussion about MDZ. A year later, he could barley find a NHL job while those posters still think MDZ is a top 4 PPQB. This isn't the same competition that Ellis played in Windsor, with Taylor Hall.

You claim Torrey Krug is a "true QB", yet he was likely the most sheltered defenseman in the league...You haven't made a lick of sense to me in any argument I've seen here today, I think its better I just disregard your posts in the future.

 

[biturbo19]

Nashville wishes that Ellis had all of those. The guy plays protected minutes, and isn't even on the top PP on his team, in fact he's barley holding on to his 2PP unit minutes.

This reminds me of last year when i had the same discussion about MDZ. A year later, he could barley find a NHL job while those posters still think MDZ is a top 4 PPQB. This isn't the same competition that Ellis played in Windsor, with Taylor Hall. The fact that Ellis is holding out is absurd to begin with, the guy has no leverage.

You're completely ignoring the environment there. Ellis is stuck behind a Norris calibre superstar defenceman, and a rising superstar in Jones on that RH side. He's blocked by that depth and he/his agent obviously know it. Nobody in their right mind is going to take Shea Weber and his near 60pts and ability to literally shoot pucks through nets, end boards, etc. off that #1PP in Nashville to substitute in a youngster like Ellis, no matter what their pedigree. That doesn't mean Ellis is "bad" at running a PP...he's just maybe not as good as one of the very best in the game.

 

[Canucker]

You're arguing with someone who guaranteed Patrick White would be the Canucks top center by now.

I will say this though, while speed isn't a requirement to be a PP QB, I do want someone who has some speed to be on the point. As we've seen with Edler back there at times, if teams can chip it by him we're prone to giving up shorthanded chances.

I think speed would be nice, but I'll take a guy who can read the play over speed...a guy like Nik Lidstrom wasn't the fastest guy on the ice, but he always had a good feel for the play and rarely got caught, even if his partner was the one who messed up. I'd be happy to get a guy like Ellis, despite his limitations (which I think are overblown in regards to speed)...we need a PMD with some real offensive gifts IMO.

 

[y2kcanucks]

I think speed would be nice, but I'll take a guy who can read the play over speed...a guy like Nik Lidstrom wasn't the fastest guy on the ice, but he always had a good feel for the play and rarely got caught, even if his partner was the one who messed up. I'd be happy to get a guy like Ellis, despite his limitations (which I think are overblown in regards to speed)...we need a PMD with some real offensive gifts IMO.

Agreed. Plus we could always partner him with someone who has a bit more speed but isn't the PPQB.

Ryan Ellis would be a great addition to the Canucks.

 

[thepuckmonster]

Nearing 1000 posts.

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